Dolan Tuono build - was Headset struggles

pangolin
pangolin Posts: 6,662
edited August 2023 in Workshop
I recently bought a new bike frame and it came with the following headset: DEDA DCR HEADSET (INTEGRATED 1.5)

The frame is a Dolan Tuono.

When I sit the upper part in the frame, with the topcover, it sits about 2mm above the frame. Am I doing something really stupid? It's like the grey ring is just too tall. Here is a pic of the headset seated in the frame.



This is what the top portion looks like.



This is the top cover.




- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono
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Comments

  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,148
    This might be a daft question on my part. Have you fitted a stem and the top cap to it and checked if this causes everything to compress and seat correctly?
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    I haven't, is it likely to compress that significantly? It all feels well seated already.

    First time building with fully internal cable routing so trying to work it out before I actually build it.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,755
    Are the top and bottom bearings identical? Not just in size but angles too (45 36).
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,148
    If it feels well seated already then perhaps not. Could be bearing size or something just not quite lining up correctly.

    There is no spacer that is supposed to go beneath the top cover at all?
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    edited July 2023
    masjer said:

    Are the top and bottom bearings identical? Not just in size but angles too (45 36).

    No, this is everything you get:


    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    The top one is thicker. If I swap them the top sits flush but the crown of the fork has a similar small gap.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • whyamihere
    whyamihere Posts: 7,717
    It won't look great, but functionally it won't be a problem. There needs to be a bit of clearance there for everything to rotate smoothly, my guess is that the head tube was made a fraction too short or the upper race was moulded/bonded a fraction too high. Those 2 metal shims in the photo are to deal with the opposite problem to what you have to create clearance, unfortunately for you you would need to reduce the height of the compression ring if tightening the headset doesn't eliminate the gap. You could sand it, but you'd need to be sure to keep the top surface completely flat and parallel. If you could find someone with a lathe/milling machine that would be better.
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,755
    Hmm, from the pic it looks like the light blue insert has 45x36 stamped on it, so pairs up with the 45x36 bearing. The black one is stamped 45x45, so pairs with the 45x45 bearing. A check on the Deda site indicates that the 45x45 fits on the top.
    I hope that makes sense.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    edited July 2023
    Sorry slightly misleading, the 2nd pic with the black insert is from a retailer.

    I only have 1 insert, which is stamped 36x45

    The smaller bearing has this on the side:

    Deda
    Retainer
    51.9 x 40
    45°x45°

    When they came in the bag the insert was in the other larger bearing, which has nothing written on it.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,755
    edited July 2023
    Looking at the Deda site again, it appears there are two versions of that headset. One where both bearings are 45x45 and the other has a 45x45 and a 45x36 bearing. It states that a 45X45 bearing fits in the top on both versions. So it maybe your smaller (thinner?) 45x45 bearing is the one to use in the top.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    masjer said:

    Looking at the Deda site again, it appears there are two versions of that headset. One where both bearings are 45x45 and the other has a 45x45 and a 45x36 bearing. It states that a 45X45 bearing fits in the top on both versions. So it maybe your smaller (thinner?) 45x45 bearing is the one to use in the top.

    Thanks for checking. Putting it that way around leaves this much of a gap at the top of the fork.



    Maybe they included the wrong version?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,755
    Maybe it looks slightly wide? An email to Dolan would clear up any concerns.
    Had a look on the Dolan website, nice looking bike!
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    masjer said:

    Maybe it looks slightly wide? An email to Dolan would clear up any concerns.
    Had a look on the Dolan website, nice looking bike!

    Yeah I'll give them a call on Monday I think. Thanks! Although I'm thinking I've made an error as swapping components from my current bike is not looking as straightforward as I'd thought. May need a £100+ new stem for it to work.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • trevor.hall12
    trevor.hall12 Posts: 499
    Couple of pics from my mates Ares with the integrated headset ,yours certainly looks too high .
    Calling Dolan would be your best bet ,that said their customer service wasn't great with both the people I onow who bought from them



  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    Thanks Trevor - yes that's more like what I'm expecting, and what the photos of built up Tuonos look like.

    Will see how tomorrow goes.

    Question on stems... the bike I'm switching from had internal cables but they entered the frame just behind the headtube, so didn't go through the stem. My current bar/stem combo is prime doyenne.

    https://www.wiggle.com/p/prime-doyenne-aero-handlebar
    https://www.wiggle.com/p/prime-doyenne-alloy-stem

    I don't think this stem is going to work...

    As I understand it my options are either:

    Get a deda dcr superbox stem, which plays nicely with this headset, and route everything internally. Not cheap though. https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/deda-superbox-dcr-stem/139466151/p?queryID=78952862720e47a09e7b0b61dd4d9f9f&buscador_search

    or get this cover kit which allows the cables in just under the stem and means I can use other stems https://dedaelementi.com/s-dcr-cover-kit

    I still don't think this would work with the doyenne stem, but I could get a deda zero1 and it would end up a fair bit cheaper than getting the superbox.

    Am I missing anything?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • trevor.hall12
    trevor.hall12 Posts: 499
    edited July 2023
    your right the stem won't work ,of the 2 options it depends on how tidy or untidy you're prepared to put up with .As usual tge cleanest option is the more expensive ,you also have the option of the alpine bars like my mate has ,think they were 300 or so as an upgrade on his build
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    Update - Dolan were pretty responsive and after a little back and forth sent me a new headset and the deda cover kit for no charge, new headset fits great.

    New question... can I reuse hydraulic brake hoses from my old bike? My suspicion is the routing on the new one means neither will be quite long enough. Can I just buy 1 new rear hose and shorten my old rear hose to use for the new front one?
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • me-109
    me-109 Posts: 1,915
    Good result. Shouldn't be an issue with re-using hoses.
  • trevor.hall12
    trevor.hall12 Posts: 499
    Great result on the headset
    Just don't reuse the olives.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    Yeah olives and barbs are on their way
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    I think I have everything I need and the kids are away at a sleepover so will see how far I can get this evening without a 2 year old "helping"


    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    Some decent progress though it is slow going. Internal routing is a bad idea haha.

    Got the brake lines done and attached to bars, and all the cables routed through the frame. Headset, spacers, fork etc all fitted.

    Cutting the steerer down a bit is a job for the morning I think.


    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    If I was building an external routed bike with rim brakes I'd have test ridden it by now :D
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • trevor.hall12
    trevor.hall12 Posts: 499
    What did you wrap the cables /hoses with inside the frame ?
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    trevor.hall12 said:

    What did you wrap the cables /hoses with inside the frame ?

    https://www.wiggle.com/p/lifeline-internal-routing-anti-vibration-foam
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • trevor.hall12
    trevor.hall12 Posts: 499
    edited August 2023
    pangolin said:

    trevor.hall12 said:

    What did you wrap the cables /hoses with inside the frame ?

    https://www.wiggle.com/p/lifeline-internal-routing-anti-vibration-foam
    Best stuff around for pennies too its done properly 👍
    Looks a nice colour of frame too , when the lights hitting it looks great
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    It's a lovely-looking bike! I wish the geometry worked for me as I would have been very interested.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    Some good progress this evening. Calipers fitted, mechs fitted, steerer trimmed down, bb and cranks in.



    One issue - the centrelock disc adaptor on the front wheel seems to touch the fork, if I tighten the thru axle properly it rubs noticeably. Do I need a proper centrelock rotor?



    Still need to:
    • bleed the brakes
    • put on chain
    • index the gears
    • wrap bars
    • sort rotor rub
    • ride!
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,662
    I think I need this as it's thinner than the one on there: https://www.wiggle.com/p/prime-12mm-center-lock-lockring-109751098

    Out of stock though.

    Currently have these https://www.wiggle.com/p/lifeline-centre-lock-adaptor though now I think about the discs are centrelock and I only needed the lockring on the right of the pic.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • trevor.hall12
    trevor.hall12 Posts: 499
    edited August 2023
    That's very wierd that it touches like that ,it should work with all types .Be worth another call to Dolan .First link is what you need
    The second link is a 6 bolt to centre lock adaptor to make 6 bolt discs compatible with centrelock wheels
    I have a few spare shimano centrelock ones I'd be happy to send to you FOC but as I say I would check with dolan that there's nothing wrong first

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