Latex or Tubolito*

themxperience

*Or other ‘plastic’ style tubes by other brands..

So what’s the deal? Are these new ‘plastic’ style tubes better than Latex?
Michelin Latex has been my go-to for a while now, with no complaints other than lack of options on valve length, so I have to use extenders, which is no big deal.

But looking at Tubolito style tubes, how are people finding them performing in terms of rolling resistance and puncture protection?

pblakeney

I was less than impressed with latex pressure retaining properties.
The new material seems to have all the benefits with none of the downsides, and much lighter. No visits from the fairy after hundreds of miles. You'd have to ask someone interested in rolling resistance to comment on that, I feel no difference.

First.Aspect

In a blind test can anyone tell the difference between a £40 inner tube and a £5 inner tube?

Out of interest has anyone tried to fix a puncture with a tp inner tube? I am guessing that a cigarette lighter will be of more use than a Halfrauds repair kit.

pblakeney

Oh, PS - I got mine for £4.60 a pop from Ali-Express.

feelgoodlost

I'd be interested to know how they cope with longer descents where hear build up on the rim is concerned. I've seen latex tubes blow on carbon rims on steeper descents where you need to brake a lot more.

daniel_b

TPU's from Ali express would seem to be the way forwards.

I have not cheap latex tubes, which are great, but the loss of air does bug me.

super_davo

I've raved enough about RideNow TPUs from AliExpress on the other thread.... have a read of this which answers the core question:
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/butyl-v-latex-v-tpu-inner-tubes-which-should-you-choose-295645
There are lots of other articles around, plus tests on Bicycle Rolling Resistance, but to summarise:
- Latex has a massive advantage in rolling resistance vs butyl, but a much smaller advantage vs TPU (to the point of barely being noticable)
- The loss of air from TPU is comparable or better than Butyl
- TPU is pretty robust as a material and has a heat resistance of between 80-120 degrees. You're not likely to exceed that in the UK ever. You probably could on Alpine descent dragging the brakes, but it would be a toss up between whether your rim failed before the tube or not

rick_chasey

If your tyres are blowing up on alpine descents the issue isn't your kit, with all due respect.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Personally, I'd be inclined to fit these TPUs and see how they go while having a butyl/latex tube as a spare, rather than riding butyl/latex/tubeless and then discovering the TPU is as much use as a chocolate teapot in a fairy visit emergency.

plymouthsteve

Done a few thousand miles now on tubolito and becoming a fan. To be fair, I've never tried latex so can't make that comparison, coming instead from tubeless.
Seems to be the same qualities as tubeless in that I can run lower pressures and the rolling resistance is certainly good too.
They seem very resilient with only one 'event ' in about 4000 miles of year round riding.
I took the tube out on that occasion and pumped it up to try and find the hole and it swelled up like a novelty balloon. Sent a picture to tubolito and they sent a free replacement straight away! Fair play.

There are specific repair patches that I'm told work fine. I've given up on tubeless now on my road and winter bikes.. can't bring myself to do the same with the MTB though.
Sure, they're pricey but vs tubeless, you can use any tyre which gives you the chance to find a bargain.
The Ali baba option is a temptation, but tubolito haven't let me down. It's like having an expensive car towing an expensive caravan, then fitting a cheap towbar. You'll probably be alright by why take the chance?

pblakeney

plymouthsteve said:

...
There are specific repair patches that I'm told work fine...

The Ali Express ones come with patches.
I've not had the need to try them yet, which is good news in the larger scheme of things.

ibr17xvii

daniel_b said:

TPU's from Ali express would seem to be the way forwards.

I have not cheap latex tubes, which are great, but the loss of air does bug me.

My experience after albeit only half a dozen rides is positive.

No issues with them so far.

rwoofer

Did get a puncture on my first outing with TPU. It looked like a pinch puncture, which was surprising as I had not hit anything. Back on latex, but will try again at some point.

feelgoodlost

rick_chasey said:

If your tyres are blowing up on alpine descents the issue isn't your kit, with all due respect.

Thanks for that. Valued input from you as always. Pray tell, if it's not your kit, then what is it? Resident descending expert...

rick_chasey

feelgoodlost said:

rick_chasey said:

If your tyres are blowing up on alpine descents the issue isn't your kit, with all due respect.

Thanks for that. Valued input from you as always. Pray tell, if it's not your kit, then what is it? Resident descending expert...

Dragging your brakes too much, basically.

themxperience

Thanks for your replies guys/gals..

I think I might give the 'cheap' Ali-Express TPUs a try, at that price, its got to be worth it.

Mad_Malx

interesting discussion, I'll do the same

ugo.santalucia

Here is where I am on inner tubes.
I am always on the lookout for something lighter and faster for time trials and hill climbs. In the past I have tried the latex inners, but the pressure issue, combined with the large size, which renders them difficult to insert without damaging them, has put me off them.

I have tried Continental Supersonic, which are very light, not horrendously expensive, feel great, but have a habit of exploding whilst riding... so, I have given up on those either and went back to the cheap and nasty heavy butyl ones.



Recently, I have found the above chart from Aerocoach, which suggests there are some watts to be saved by going for this new breed of light tubes. So, I have ordered the Schwalbe Aerothan, which appear to be superior to the Tubolito and cheaper... I ordered 3 from Bikeinn and with a bit of luck they should be delivered this week. It took over two weeks to make the journey from Spain, which is comparable to ordering from China.
The chart shows Watt saving for 45km/h, I am more in the 35-40 bracket, so let's say 5 Watts saving for £ 30 a pair is the top I can hope for. That is 6 quid per Watt. How does that compare with other common upgrades?
Aero wheels claim typically 20 Watts saving and they generally retail between 600 and 1800 pounds, so we are looking at 30-90 quid per Watt.
A skinsuit claims to save around 20W and we are looking at 150-300 pounds for a top product, so again 7.50 to 15 pounds per Watt. The caveat here is that I can' think of a race this year where the temperature was high enough to wear a Nopinz, but maybe that is just me.
The much talked about coaching can also add 20 Watts of power outpu and we are looking at about 100 quid a month, if one wants to take it seriously... let's say that you can achieve that figure after 3 months, that means £300, so 15 quid per Watt and probably a lot of pain in the process.

The benefit of inner tubes, is that they are low commitment, a fairly straight forward swap, can always be used, don't need to think whether it's wet or dry, cold or hot, race or training, don't need to do Tabata intervals, so it seems an upgrade worth having and I really hope they make a small but measurable difference. I need to find around 45 seconds on a 10, if I want a chance to grab the club trophy... it's about 20-25 Watts, give or take.

shirley_basso

Good to hear from you Ugo.

Performance notwithstanding, presumably there's a 'feel' benefit from saving that weight at the rim, perhaps in climbing situations, too?

super_davo

That's a good graph and in line with what's on Bicyclerolling resistance.com.

For outright watt savings, then Tubeless or Latex will have the edge. For weight, TPU will be best. For all round usage there is a lot to be said for TPU; not losing much in the way of watts vs the best, the lowest tyre + tube / sealant system weight, and none of the faff of tubeless (accepting there are other reasons to pick tubeless like ability to run at lower pressures, self-seal punctures etc)

richys

Ordered a few of the RideNows for my Supersix EVO. As ‘luck’ would have it, I had a visit from the fairy on Sunday, so I’ll see how they go very soon.

I’ll be running these on 28c Vittoria Corsa G2s on 21mm wide Cannonade carbon rims. Frankly, as soon as I’ve worn out the Corsas, I’m going tubeless. Corsas again, and in tanwall. Being a bike tart was the only thing stopping me going tubeless before!

Charlie_Croker

Reading the adverts one possible drawback on the TPU type...



bit of a wait on a rainy day

aberdeen_lune

Just swap the tube out at the roadside with a spare. Patch the tube if you want later in the comfort of your own home.

super_davo

aberdeen_lune said:

Just swap the tube out at the roadside with a spare. Patch the tube if you want later in the comfort of your own home.

Which is what 90% of people have done with Latex & Butyl tubes for years. And at least TPU don't take up much space in your pockets / saddlebag.

davebradswmb

You can always carry 2 spares where you would have carried 1 butyl tube in the past. Also I've heard that standard self-adhesive patches work with TPU tubes.

daniel_b

To be fair, you can carry 4 in the same room as a butyl tube - that's if you have the 24g ones anyway.

ugo.santalucia

The Aerothan tubes from Bikeinn finally arrived. They have been all over the world in 18 days, so on balance I am not sure I will buy from them again, although if you are patient, there are significant savings to be had.
The fitting is easier than butyl tubes, the material is not as "grippy" and slides better under the tyre, so much so that during inflation the tyre did not pop onto the rim as it normally does at around 60psi.
I have been conservative and kept the front at 85-90 psi, and also to be on the safe side, I have only fitted one tube for the time being, I don't want to be stranded with both tyres flat. I have a 10 mile TT tonight, so perfect opportunity to test it.
Downside is they only exist in 40 mm valve flavour, which is just about OK for my 32 mm rims, but obviously they would need an extension for anything deeper, which is most rim upgrades on the market these days.
I have a couple of hill climbs in the Peak District coming up, so the weight saving is welcome too.

daniel_b

Out of interest @""ugo.santalucia" what made you choose those over Ridenow or another brand - are they meant to have less rolling resistance perhaps?

shirley_basso

Mine arrived today and fitted easily enough. 130g saving (200g Vs 70g for the pair).

One thing to watch is they are super smooth and don't sit into the shape of the main tyre so need a bit of air to stop them pinching (although a slight pinch is easy to resolve as it doesn't tear the tube).

Texture wise - feels like a Sainsbury's plastic bag (the new orange ones you have to pay for).

Also they came with self adhesive repair patches (one per tube) so now I have two in my tool bag.

ugo.santalucia

I have now used the Aerothan tubes for a couple of TT and two hill climbs. They are nice, they feel nice and once I sorted one of them, where the valve top had not been screwed in tight enough by the manufacturer, they hardly lose air, compared to latex equivalents. I have also got the rims quite hot coming down a horribly surfaced 20% lane on the way to Monsal Head (Bottomhill road in Cressbrook, don't bother!), with no consequences, so I am quite confident about them. Haven't really been able to appreciate the Watts saving, but the certainly feel nice and that must be worth something. Also, much easier to fit a tyre, including the notoriously tight GP5000 in 23 mm flavour.

pblakeney

In summary, nobody has had a bad word to say yet.