Rate the Race: Giro d'Italia 2023

mididoctors

jimmyjams said:

mididoctors said:

What do you remember about Garzeli's or Cunego or Dan di Luca giro ? For every 2010 there's a 2004.

I was actually in Italy for the last 8 stages of Garzelli's win, and although the first half of the race seemed not very interesting (I followed it from afar), I quite enjoyed its last week while I was there.
Lots of the top Italians of that era were in the race – Pantani, Savoldelli, Simoni, Gotti, Casagrande, a young Di Luca, Frigo, Piepoli and Cipollini (at least at the beginning), as well as the likes of Tonkov and Konyshev. And Casagrande, in Rosa since the 9th stage, was often attacked during the last week, each time he just about parrying enough to keep his lead, although that gradually dropped from about 50 secs to just 20 secs. Eventually he lost the jersey to Garzelli on the 20th stage, a mountain TT.
I believe Garzelli was a popular winner among riders and fans, and when the race was analysed, it was clear Casagrande wasn't the climber he was reputed to be - when he took the jersey, it was almost solely due to his faster descending; during the whole race he never really climbed quicker than any of his opponents.

Whatching less doped pantani try and attack and fail was one of the cringiest things I have ever had to endure as a cycling fan .... Its was both pathetic and tradgic ....was it the year casagrande got booted of the race for pushing a rider into a ditch?

mididoctors

RichN95. said:

rick_chasey said:

RichN95. said:

Over the winter when there's not too much to talk about, we're definitely going have to rank post 2010 GTs. Daniel Friebe has completely lost it giving this three glasses. He was dodgy before that.

You’re just bitter he didn’t give your man’s heroics 5/5

Maybe , but he rates the 2003 Tour as a five because his man had one day beating Armstrong

Seriously though. Name me a better GT than the 2018 Giro. It was the gold standard (admittedly I was unemployed at the time so watched all of it)

2018 giro d'Italia was the greatest GT I have every seen.

jimmyjams

mididoctors said:

jimmyjams said:

mididoctors said:

What do you remember about Garzeli's or Cunego or Dan di Luca giro ? For every 2010 there's a 2004.

I was actually in Italy for the last 8 stages of Garzelli's win, and although the first half of the race seemed not very interesting (I followed it from afar), I quite enjoyed its last week while I was there.
Lots of the top Italians of that era were in the race – Pantani, Savoldelli, Simoni, Gotti, Casagrande, a young Di Luca, Frigo, Piepoli and Cipollini (at least at the beginning), as well as the likes of Tonkov and Konyshev. And Casagrande, in Rosa since the 9th stage, was often attacked during the last week, each time he just about parrying enough to keep his lead, although that gradually dropped from about 50 secs to just 20 secs. Eventually he lost the jersey to Garzelli on the 20th stage, a mountain TT.
I believe Garzelli was a popular winner among riders and fans, and when the race was analysed, it was clear Casagrande wasn't the climber he was reputed to be - when he took the jersey, it was almost solely due to his faster descending; during the whole race he never really climbed quicker than any of his opponents.

Whatching less doped pantani try and attack and fail was one of the cringiest things I have ever had to endure as a cycling fan .... Its was both pathetic and tradgic ....was it the year casagrande got booted of the race for pushing a rider into a ditch?

Pantani wasn't expected to do well, he had barely ridden since being thrown out of the previous year's Giro, so his role was, as he himself put it, „to tip the scales“ in Garzelli's favour.
It's true he failed to help on the day Casagrande took the jersey, but on stage 19, when the Giro crossed into France, Pantani helped Garzelli on the climbs and also countered attacka by Simoni (who was the other main GC contender – he finished third overall).

It was about 2 years later Casagrande got thrown out for pushing another rider into a ditch.

mididoctors

jimmyjams said:

mididoctors said:

jimmyjams said:

mididoctors said:

What do you remember about Garzeli's or Cunego or Dan di Luca giro ? For every 2010 there's a 2004.

I was actually in Italy for the last 8 stages of Garzelli's win, and although the first half of the race seemed not very interesting (I followed it from afar), I quite enjoyed its last week while I was there.
Lots of the top Italians of that era were in the race – Pantani, Savoldelli, Simoni, Gotti, Casagrande, a young Di Luca, Frigo, Piepoli and Cipollini (at least at the beginning), as well as the likes of Tonkov and Konyshev. And Casagrande, in Rosa since the 9th stage, was often attacked during the last week, each time he just about parrying enough to keep his lead, although that gradually dropped from about 50 secs to just 20 secs. Eventually he lost the jersey to Garzelli on the 20th stage, a mountain TT.
I believe Garzelli was a popular winner among riders and fans, and when the race was analysed, it was clear Casagrande wasn't the climber he was reputed to be - when he took the jersey, it was almost solely due to his faster descending; during the whole race he never really climbed quicker than any of his opponents.

Whatching less doped pantani try and attack and fail was one of the cringiest things I have ever had to endure as a cycling fan .... Its was both pathetic and tradgic ....was it the year casagrande got booted of the race for pushing a rider into a ditch?

It was about 2 years later Casagrande got thrown out for pushing another rider into a ditch.

Riders were so much more honourable and followed the unwritten rules back then

wallace_and_gromit

I gave it a 7. This is based on never having any intentions to watch live, as I have higher priorities for my spare time. So I followed via media reports and social media updates (inc video clips of certain incidents) in particular, the daily threads here in the final hour or so of most stages). From this perspective, it was a good race. There were plenty of incidents, plenty of "back stories" (e.g. Are Cav and G past it?) and the closeness of the GC generates tension automatically.

I guess my perspective is somewhat different to most here though. My sport spectating (as a judge, so I have to watch) for the last 6 years has been age group swimming, which features hours and hours of other folks' kids ploughing up and down a swimming pool (all of which look exactly the same, as the design of competition pools down to the colour of the lane ropes is tightly defined by the rule book). After watching a few heats of the 400 freestyle, watching the GC bunch ride up a mountain represents a veritable panoply of excitement and mental stimulation in comparison, even if no-one seems to do anything!

The incident with Cav crossing the finish line on his ar*e represents more excitement than I've seen live in aggregate in the swim world in 8 years (2 years as a spectator plus the 6 years as a judge) other than races involving my kids, where obviously considerations re excitement are very different from a race not involving them.

wakemalcolm

I've given it 6 because I've already forgotten how turgid the middle week was.
A country with mountains running along pretty much its entire length should be able to deliver a more balanced GT parcours.
Given that nobody's serious about doing the Giro-Tour double these days (although I wouldn't put it past a bored Pog), it might be worth pushing it back further.

Pross

wallace_and_gromit said:

I gave it a 7. This is based on never having any intentions to watch live, as I have higher priorities for my spare time. So I followed via media reports and social media updates (inc video clips of certain incidents) in particular, the daily threads here in the final hour or so of most stages). From this perspective, it was a good race. There were plenty of incidents, plenty of "back stories" (e.g. Are Cav and G past it?) and the closeness of the GC generates tension automatically.

I guess my perspective is somewhat different to most here though. My sport spectating (as a judge, so I have to watch) for the last 6 years has been age group swimming, which features hours and hours of other folks' kids ploughing up and down a swimming pool (all of which look exactly the same, as the design of competition pools down to the colour of the lane ropes is tightly defined by the rule book). After watching a few heats of the 400 freestyle, watching the GC bunch ride up a mountain represents a veritable panoply of excitement and mental stimulation in comparison, even if no-one seems to do anything!

The incident with Cav crossing the finish line on his ar*e represents more excitement than I've seen live in aggregate in the swim world in 8 years (2 years as a spectator plus the 6 years as a judge) other than races involving my kids, where obviously considerations re excitement are very different from a race not involving them.

Fair play, if I was using swimming as a benchmark I'd have given this Giro an 11!

joeyhalloran

Gee was a good story line but I don't think the final TT and Cav winning made up for 2 1/2 weeks of meh. The GC battle was never very interesting.

kingstongraham

Any race where the sun shines on the Dolomites isn't getting less than 4. I genuinely already can't remember anything about the race apart from: Pinot repeatedly standing on rakes, the rain, the DNSs and a slow TT.

wallace_and_gromit

Pross said:

Fair play, if I was using swimming as a benchmark I'd have given this Giro an 11!

Much as I enjoy watching the Little W&Gs do their stuff in the water, a visiting Martian would probably conclude that competitive swimming is actually punishment for heinous past deeds for both swimmers and parents! At least as a judge you get free food and free carparking, and don't have to pay to get in.

No_Ta_Doctor

I've never really watched a lot of swimming, but I've had chemotherapy and the Giro was definitely better than that.

wallace_and_gromit

I think comparisons to swimming and chemo do suggest this year's Giro will fade from the memory faster than the 2002 vintage Barolo.

mididoctors

4.167 average . Feels about right

m.r.m.

Some of the reasonings for the higher grades are rather farcical. Didn't really watch much, so it was great. Only read forum threads, so it seemed awesome. Forgot the middle part, so it was pretty good, taken as a bunch of 1 day races, it was quite decent...

😛

blazing_saddles

Inrng have an extended review of the race. Reads like a 4.167 piece. (if that)

https://inrng.com/2023/05/giro-ditalia-2023-review/

wallace_and_gromit

m.r.m. said:

Some of the reasonings for the higher grades are rather farcical. Didn't really watch much, so it was great. Only read forum threads, so it seemed awesome. Forgot the middle part, so it was pretty good, taken as a bunch of 1 day races, it was quite decent...

😛

Horses for courses I guess. The Giro filled an hour or so each day for me most agreeably catching up on SM comments and video clips and so didn't impinge on any other aspect of life. The 2018 Tour by contrast was a nightmare for me as I barely got any work done on the "GC days" and had to play serious catch up for the week afterwards!

bobmcstuff

It would have to be really going some for me to not enjoy it at all to be fair.

rick_chasey

Giro definitely has an advantage of being the first GT.

The novelty of having a race to follow for most of the month is still fresh in May.

I run out of steam by August so struggle with the Vuelta, especially as it's a consolation prize at best after the Tour. I've just invested a whole summery month into this big race, how am I supposed to give a sh!t about a race with ugly scenery, and a B-list cast of riders and stowaways who's season didn't work out as hoped.

kingstongraham

It felt like a vuelta.

mididoctors

kingstongraham said:

It felt like a vuelta.

Ouffff

No_Ta_Doctor

rick_chasey said:

I run out of steam by August so struggle with the Vuelta, especially as it's a consolation prize at best after the Tour. I've just invested a whole summery month into this big race, how am I supposed to give a sh!t about a race with ugly scenery, and a B-list cast of riders and stowaways who's season didn't work out as hoped.

kingstongraham said:

It felt like a vuelta.

Ouch

kingstongraham

I like watching the vuelta but it doesn't stick long in the memory.

lettingthedaysgoby

A solid, right down the middle 5.

As a GC race, not great. But as a series of entertaining one day races there was a lot to enjoy, for me anyway. Plus seeing Cav being led out by G was one of my single best moments of any race, ever.

The weather certainly didn’t help at times, and the organisers really need to balance the weeks out more. Yeah, having such a back loaded last week looks great as a challenge for the riders. But it’s always going to make for caution in the preceding weeks.

Lanterne_Rogue

Gave it an extra point because I missed the final stage to suffer camping with my family in Europe's only dedicated midge reserve, ie Scotland, and frankly being back home, lying in my own bed with a cold beer and watching a Cavendish win has made me a bit soft.

This year's Giro was ridiculously backloaded, which really screwed the middle week, and I don't think that ten minutes of tension in the final TT came close to justifying it.

I suspect that on top of a dodgy parcours it was also a race that was defined by those that didn't finish it, which is always an unsatisfactory affair.