Tyres!

The tyre choice of a mate of mine has always been Michelin Pro 4 Endurance. It appears that these are no longer available and he can't make head nor tail of the new Michelin product range. He really wants a like for like replacement for the Michelin Pro 4 Endurance.

He bought some Gatorskins but hates them.

Does anyone have any idea of what the Michelin equivalent of the Pro 4 Endurance is or that could recommend an equivalent tyre from anywhere else?
Wilier Izoard XP
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Comments

  • Continental Grand Prix 4 Season would seem to be the obvious alternative. It's a good tyre, nothing like the Gatorskins.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,652
    Continental 4 seasons I would have thought would be a similar performing tyre.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,414
    Thanks! I will pass on the advice - much appreciated. Anyone else have any suggestions?
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • Conti GP5000s should last most of us at least one year, perhaps not quite as durable as the GP4000 S IIs they replaced. Look around for size wanted as prices vary massively these days, usually Merlin and Sigma are my goto places for these.

    No idea how Schwalbe's equivalents are these days (Pro One?).
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • beansnikpoh
    beansnikpoh Posts: 1,533
    Your mate could head over to Decathlon's website and stock up with a few pro 4 endurance - £55 for a twin pack.

    Or conti 4 seasons as above.
  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 1,509
    edited February 2023
    As above, these seem readily available (albeit in 23/25mm width). Is your mate after a wider size?

    I use Vittoria Rubino as a good all round training tire, can't recall a single puncture in two winters and good longevity as well.

  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,414

    Your mate could head over to Decathlon's website and stock up with a few pro 4 endurance - £55 for a twin pack.

    Or conti 4 seasons as above.

    Thanks, he has bought from Decathlon in the recent past and thinks they may be NOS as they have split on him hence the desire to get something else or Michelin's new equivalent.
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • beansnikpoh
    beansnikpoh Posts: 1,533

    Your mate could head over to Decathlon's website and stock up with a few pro 4 endurance - £55 for a twin pack.

    Or conti 4 seasons as above.

    Thanks, he has bought from Decathlon in the recent past and thinks they may be NOS as they have split on him hence the desire to get something else or Michelin's new equivalent.
    Michelin's new equivalent seems to be the "power all season" at £40 per wheel.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,652
    Would agree the GP5000 is a stonking tyre, but as he had 'endurance' tyres, I would still think the 4 seasons would be the equivalent.
    Having said that, I have never ridden a 4 seasons.

    I did used to ride Pro 2, and Pro 3 endurance tyres, but with the road debris round here they didn't last long sadly.
    So far my switch to Conti has gone very well - only one visit in recent years that I can recall.

    For my more wintery/durable tyres I tend to use Scwalbe - Durano, Durano Plus, Marathon plus, Marathon supreme.

    Actually, thinking about it, although the Durano range is fairly confusing, something like the stock Durano, or the Durano DD (If it is still called that) could be another option, and perhaps cheaper as well.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,646
    4 seasons are the best all round tyre I have used.
  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,523
    I’ve used Pro 4 Endurance for a while myself, and still have some on my winter wheels.

    Michelin did remove them from their website, but after a while they reappeared.
    https://www.michelin.co.uk/bicycle/browse-tyres/by-bicycle-usage/road/training

    So the ones listed for sale may be current stock.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,094
    Conti have a new all seasons GP5000 which is tubeless ready.
    Price is eyewatering though!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 73,646

    Conti have a new all seasons GP5000 which is tubeless ready.
    Price is eyewatering though!

    I just broke my shoulder after the bike slipped out from under me on an unremarkable corner on GP5000s. First time I’ve had that happen to me (the bike slipping, not just the shoulder)
  • drhaggis
    drhaggis Posts: 1,150

    Your mate could head over to Decathlon's website and stock up with a few pro 4 endurance - £55 for a twin pack.

    Or conti 4 seasons as above.

    Thanks, he has bought from Decathlon in the recent past and thinks they may be NOS as they have split on him hence the desire to get something else or Michelin's new equivalent.
    Michelin's new equivalent seems to be the "power all season" at £40 per wheel.
    I wouldn't get the Power All Season as a one-to-one replacement. They're more robust and probably grippier than Pro4 Endurances, but roll worse (check bicyclerollingresistance.com) and definitely feel worse. Due to this, I swapped to another tyre (Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Season) when the time came. Feeling aside, they're actually good, dependable winter tyres.

    Michelin had the Power Road for a while. Initially, these were good, but seemingly had a propensity to develop casing defects (long story). I guess that's why these are no longer available pretty much anywhere. Avoid for the long term, due to doubtful longevity even on milder weather.

    Their newest model is the new Power Cup. This is available both as tubeless and traditinal. I haven't ridden it, and thus can't say anything other than what I read on bicyclerollingressistance.
  • why do they hate the Gatorskins? I bought mine last May and not had a single puncture in 2000 or so miles. This included LEJOG over 13 days on some very rough roads.
    Bikes are OK, I guess... :-)

    2008 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp.
    2013 Trek 1.2
    1982 Holdsworth Elan.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    mudsucker said:

    why do they hate the Gatorskins? I bought mine last May and not had a single puncture in 2000 or so miles. This included LEJOG over 13 days on some very rough roads.

    Because they are terrible on wet roads.
  • webboo said:

    mudsucker said:

    why do they hate the Gatorskins? I bought mine last May and not had a single puncture in 2000 or so miles. This included LEJOG over 13 days on some very rough roads.

    Because they are terrible on wet roads.
    Interesting. I've not personally found that.
    Bikes are OK, I guess... :-)

    2008 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp.
    2013 Trek 1.2
    1982 Holdsworth Elan.
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    Tell him to bin the Michelins and get GP4Seasons.

    I had constant punctures on the Pro3 and Pro4 Endurance tyres. Switched to GP4seasons and have much better luck
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    webboo said:

    mudsucker said:

    why do they hate the Gatorskins? I bought mine last May and not had a single puncture in 2000 or so miles. This included LEJOG over 13 days on some very rough roads.

    Because they are terrible on wet roads.
    I can't understand why so many people complain about gatorskins in the wet. They are badged as a tyre designed for maximum puncture protection and endurance, not super levels of grip. Any tyre which does claim to provide high levels of grip inevitably has higher levels of friction and therefore wears faster.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    My experience is having one on the rear wheel of my winter bike. If on wet smoothish tarmac, my back wheel would slip if I got out of the saddle especially if going up hill.
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,414
    edited February 2023
    All

    Thanks for your comments and recommendations - they have all been passed on

    Edited to say he has just ordered some Vittoria Rubino Pro G2 based on MidlandsGrimpeur recommendation
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • Following this thread I found that I needed a new tyre for my commuter/winter bike. As it isn't my best bike I have always balked at spending top money for the tyres. I have used Gatorskins in the past, and although they are quite expensive I justified it on the basis that they seem to last forever, they aren't a nice tyre though. The last pair I had were Jack Brown Milemunchers that a friend gave to me. These weren't too bad to ride and fit the cheap and cheerful bill, but they didn't last very long.

    I found that my local Decathlon had a Pro 4 Endurance in stock so I bought it on the basis that laurentian's mate likes them. It was only £29.99 and it rides really nicely - it is the rear tyre. Decathlon have twin packs available for online order for £54.99, no singles left, they are all out in the stores, so I have ordered a pair. They are only available in 25mm though.
  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,523
    dannbodge said:

    Tell him to bin the Michelins and get GP4Seasons.

    I had constant punctures on the Pro3 and Pro4 Endurance tyres. Switched to GP4seasons and have much better luck

    Interestingly I had the opposite experience.
  • PMark
    PMark Posts: 159
    singleton said:

    dannbodge said:

    Tell him to bin the Michelins and get GP4Seasons.

    I had constant punctures on the Pro3 and Pro4 Endurance tyres. Switched to GP4seasons and have much better luck

    Interestingly I had the opposite experience.
    I had a similar experience with the Michelin Endurance tyres, was glad to get rid of them and switch back to GP4S. Although currently liking the SCHWALBE DURANO, which can generally be found for a lot less than the GP4S, but seems to give me similar puncture protection.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,179
    Schwalbe Durano - small sample size of one pair.
    Quality control was shocking. The tyres would not sit properly and the wall thickness was uneven. I like round tyres. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,610
    edited March 2023
    For my wet weather bike, I've done the unthinkable and used wired tyres (rubino graphene) on it for a few winters. They were about £6 each (more now) but have been really grippy and reliable. Maybe you lose a bit of speed (not noticed) but since the roads are so cr'ppy here anyway I can't see any negatives other than street cred.
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,414
    As mentioned above, my mate bought some Vittorias. Feedback is that they feel similar to the Michelins and 100 times better than the Gatorskins! Longevity and puncture resisitance remain to be seen but, for the moment, he's a happy peddler!

    Thanks for all the contributions.
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,652
    pblakeney said:

    Schwalbe Durano - small sample size of one pair.
    Quality control was shocking. The tyres would not sit properly and the wall thickness was uneven. I like round tyres. 😉

    That sounds unlucky, must have been a defective pair.

    I've had 3 pairs, and no such issues.

    One pair refuse to die, vfm they must be right up there.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • simon_e
    simon_e Posts: 1,706
    daniel_b said:

    I've had 3 pairs, and no such issues.

    One pair refuse to die, vfm they must be right up there.

    Same for me with Durano, they last ages and seemed to have a good compromise between rolling resistance, perceived grip and absence of the p-word.

    I rode them back-to-back with Pro 4 Endurance and found the Pro 4 to be a little more supple but very little difference.

    The Durano has been superseded by the One Performance Addix, specs suggest it's a very similar tyre. I'm now running Durano DD on the winter/wet weather bike. They also seem to last ages, are a bit tougher and while tests suggest they have a bit more RR I'm happy with that compromise if it means fewer deflations on dark, wet evenings while on my way home from work.

    I have a pair of Michelin Lithion 3 that I will be fitting in the spring. It is a cheaper alternative to the Endurance and might be worth a try.
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • Puncture resistance is a very difficult thing to quantify. Manufacturers claim puncture resistance, but how do they test? I have punctured pretty much every tyre I've ever used, including Gatorskins and Marathon Plus, and I haven't really noticed that one tyre is particularly worse or better than another. They more robust tyres are used on my winter/commuter bike while the nicer tyres are used on my summer bike so you could argue that I'm not comparing eggs with eggs, but I have punctured on summer commutes. The trouble is that no one person is going to have a big enough sample to really come to a statisically relevent conclusion.

    I now hope that those people who had bad experiences with the Pro 4 Endurance were just unlucky now I've just invested in 3 of them!