Zed bike wheels experience
Just wondering if anyone else out there has any experience of buying from Zed Bike Wheels?
I have had a bad experience dealing with them. Faulty wheels and then really poor customer service.
Maybe I’ve been unlucky but interested to see if others on here had dealt with them.
Cheers
Iain
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Fine for me, but the wheels weren't faulty.
What's your bad experience?0 -
See his other post in road buying for the full details . 👀0
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Probably I'm being thick, but I can't find it.webboo said:See his other post in road buying for the full details . 👀
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https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13110792/mavic-cosmic-pro-carbon-exalith-vs-carbon-handbuilt-wheelsets#latestFirst.Aspect said:
Probably I'm being thick, but I can't find it.webboo said:See his other post in road buying for the full details . 👀
last post on this thread - this latest thread is just fishing attempt..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Oh. No point engaging in this sort of thing.1
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Unhappy customer, but doesn't seem to be a spammer...
Zed wheels are quite popular on the hill climb scene, but that per se doesn't mean much, they probably get ridden for 20 miles in a racing season. At the very top end of the game, competitors seem to use more conventional wheels with steel spokes... Zed are the choice of those obsessed about the last gram saving, they rarely make the top 20... A veteran friend has a 4.7 kg Supersix with Zed wheels... defies gravity, but the rider is not bothering the timekeepers.
Probably the highest ranked rider who use Zed wheel is Rebecca Richardson...
Other than that, I have never seen them on the road... it's not the kind of wheels you buy to use every day, although there might be no reason not to. I suspect the drag of those polyester spokes cancel out any weight saving with a hefty aerodynamic penalty.
left the forum March 20230 -
I think Spinergy have used those spokes for donkeys years. I'm with you that the benefit of non-steel spokes probably isn't justified. You don't see many Spinergy wheels either.
I got a pair from Zed with carbon spokes - which are common as muck these days. They are 1250g for 40mm rims or something stupid like that, but I honestly don't feel the weight difference from some old 1500g Mavics I have. They just look nice.
The hubs look pretty straightforward and likely sourced from the same place as an Australian brand the name of which escapes me. They are also similar in design to the ones Winspace use. A tube with bearings in the ends and a couple of perforated flanges. It's just a hub. The rims are just carbon rims, not much to say. They will come out of the mold next to dozens of other brands' rims. I liked the carbon weave. The bearings are Japanese and a standard size. If they wear out, I'll replace them. I should probably order a bunch of spare spokes though.
What I am saying is that these are just assembled parts like any other hand built wheelset and no more or less "hillclimb only" than any other wheelset.
I am not sure if Zed is any good at building wheels or not. Mine are okay, went out of true after a few hundred miles. I think he's quite conservative when it comes to spoke tension. A spoke had come very loose. I tightened it. The wheel is now straight. That's called maintenance. If I'm honest I think he should acquaint himself with Loctite, and my hunch is that he doesn't because it would add a few grams. Or, perhaps you can't with those spokes. Doesn't matter. I have a spoke key.
They are stiff, but not super stiff. I'm 78-80 kg and I'm using ancient calipers so not much clearance with modern wide rims. I don't get brake rub. But for hill climbs, you'd be better off with stiffer wheels and an extra 100g, I'd have thought.
They are exceptionally crap in the rain, though. Slightly better as they get more brake pad material bedded in.
Blokey's original post reads as his aren't as stiff as he hoped, but the vendor says they are all like that and its what he ordered. I could see possibly they are prone to going out of true if they are inherently too springy and not that high tension. That could be why they are "unsafe to ride" - just like any wheel with a very loose spoke, if you went grumbling to a bike shop with them. Thing is, we will never know because he's just come to vent and probably won't post again.
Zed are based in England, so Blokey is protected by UK distance selling regulations.1 -
MattFalle said:
https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13110792/mavic-cosmic-pro-carbon-exalith-vs-carbon-handbuilt-wheelsets#latestFirst.Aspect said:
Probably I'm being thick, but I can't find it.webboo said:See his other post in road buying for the full details . 👀
last post on this thread - this latest thread is just fishing attempt.
Don't know what fishing would be achieved by posting this? An odd comment?
Yes, as per my comment in Road buying forum (copied below): The wheels were really poor when they arrived. Initially was more than happy to have the problems resolved and these things happen, even when kit is hand built. However it was the customer service and unwillingness to admit anything was wrong that was the worst part. Also just the sheer amount of time to get any feedback, response from them. Weeks at a time at points.
Eventually, when it was proven by a bike shop that the wheels were unsafe Zed wheels tried to lay the blame on the bike shop. Thankfully the bike shop had pre-empted this and recorded the little bit of work done trying to adjust spoke tension.
One of the strangest things was initially the owner was delighted to spend time talking about the wheels on the phone before I bought them but then after buying them and discovering the issues I received an email from his wife claiming that he didn't speak on the phone due to having Autism!
The last thing to happen was that while the wheels were being couriered back to Zed for the second time their courier lost the wheels. This was over 2.5 months ago. Still no refund and zero sensible engagement from Zed. Hence legal action being taken to resolve.
Lots of other silly little details over the 8-9 month experience that have left a bad taste. Happy to outline but I think above/below enough to give an idea.
Certainly not fishing??!!
Post on other forum
"Decided to try Zed Wheels after reading some online reviews and liking the idea of trying something new. Went for the top spec 50m versions with Berd Spokes.
Unfortunately they were not true at all when arrived and had way too much flex in them.
Zed Bike wheels then went from being the friendliest outfit to deal with to being really difficult. Hard to get a hold of and refusing to hear of any fault despite confirmation being provided by very reputable bike shop.
Wheels were sent back. Zed denied any fault and sent them back. Bike shop again confirmed that same faults were there and said they were unsafe to ride.
Almost a 8 months later and nothing has been resolved. All kinds of silliness and still £1,500 out of pocket. Currently taking legal action.
I was excited to try a boutique UK wheel firm but in hind sight wish I had just stuck to one of the big brands with better customer service and more accountable approach. Lesson learned."
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Thanks for the commentsFirst.Aspect said:I think Spinergy have used those spokes for donkeys years. I'm with you that the benefit of non-steel spokes probably isn't justified. You don't see many Spinergy wheels either.
I got a pair from Zed with carbon spokes - which are common as muck these days. They are 1250g for 40mm rims or something stupid like that, but I honestly don't feel the weight difference from some old 1500g Mavics I have. They just look nice.
The hubs look pretty straightforward and likely sourced from the same place as an Australian brand the name of which escapes me. They are also similar in design to the ones Winspace use. A tube with bearings in the ends and a couple of perforated flanges. It's just a hub. The rims are just carbon rims, not much to say. They will come out of the mold next to dozens of other brands' rims. I liked the carbon weave. The bearings are Japanese and a standard size. If they wear out, I'll replace them. I should probably order a bunch of spare spokes though.
What I am saying is that these are just assembled parts like any other hand built wheelset and no more or less "hillclimb only" than any other wheelset.
I am not sure if Zed is any good at building wheels or not. Mine are okay, went out of true after a few hundred miles. I think he's quite conservative when it comes to spoke tension. A spoke had come very loose. I tightened it. The wheel is now straight. That's called maintenance. If I'm honest I think he should acquaint himself with Loctite, and my hunch is that he doesn't because it would add a few grams. Or, perhaps you can't with those spokes. Doesn't matter. I have a spoke key.
They are stiff, but not super stiff. I'm 78-80 kg and I'm using ancient calipers so not much clearance with modern wide rims. I don't get brake rub. But for hill climbs, you'd be better off with stiffer wheels and an extra 100g, I'd have thought.
They are exceptionally censored in the rain, though. Slightly better as they get more brake pad material bedded in.
Blokey's original post reads as his aren't as stiff as he hoped, but the vendor says they are all like that and its what he ordered. I could see possibly they are prone to going out of true if they are inherently too springy and not that high tension. That could be why they are "unsafe to ride" - just like any wheel with a very loose spoke, if you went grumbling to a bike shop with them. Thing is, we will never know because he's just come to vent and probably won't post again.
Zed are based in England, so Blokey is protected by UK distance selling regulations.
I didn't go grumbling to a bike shop. The wheels were taken, boxed, to bike shop with cassette and tyres etc to be put on new bike frame. The bike shop contacted me to say that they had put the wheels on the bike but that they were unsafe. Way too much lateral flex in them and spokes appeared to be super loose.
As they had not dealt with Berd Spokes before they did not medal with them in first instance but I contacted Zed. Then fun and games began.
You are referring to carbon spokes. I bought the Berd String spokes. Zed state that these will come ready to ride and quote very low margins for error in their rim trueness. They do state that the wheels may need servicing after a while but that due to the nature of Berd Spokes they want to take them back and do this themselves. All part of the service they claim. If the wheels had carbon spokes I would have just adjusted myself or got the bike shop to do it.
The reality with mine is that they were useless on arrival and Zed simply refused to admit this. They were sent back once and then when they came back again the bike shop again showed that they were unfit to be ridden.
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Always tricky when you are buying a product from a small business/manufacturer and something goes wrong with it. Due to costs of repair/replace, they will always be reluctant to admit any kind of manufacturing fault. You also have to factor in that for all the genuine customers who have experienced issues, there are the very small number who cause error through misuse and try to claim the product is faulty. Not in anyway suggesting this is the case with the OP, but it gives an idea of why retailers/manufacturers can sometimes be a bit 'difficult'.
You also have to factor in that the owner will have pride in his product and business, this can make people a bit blinkered (which is understandable). I am sure he is absolutely confident that he delivers a perfect product every time. If there is perhaps a rare occasion when he doesn't, it is always a bit hard to accept that this may be the case.
I am not casting aspersions on either side, just trying to give some insight as to why the OP perhaps found it more difficult than hoped to get a resolution.
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The Zed owner also isn't on here to give his side. That's the problem with these threads, if you will pardon the pun.
From Zed's perspective, you've taken the wheels to a bike shop, and the shop has adjusted them. I can see how this might have seemed like the most pragmatic way to get on the road, but it completely muddies the water doesn't it?
And it is hard to follow your story anyway. Sounds like the bike shop tried to adjust them. Actually videoed what they did to cover themselves and this later came to light, but also at some point that they've been back to Zed and then returned to you still faulty, and then lost entirely, which neither Zed nor the courier is accepting responsibility for. Sorry if this comes off as incredulous, but you are either the unluckiest person in the world, or there's more to this than first appears.
But overall, even if Zed doesn't have a leg to stand on - what sort of resolution are you expecting from the forum? If you are taking someone to court, is posting on here even in your interests?
Out of interest, have you tried your bank? Even with a debit card there are circumstances under which a payment can be reversed.
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Spinergy use "PBO" spokes - not the same polymer but the same general idea. Just a polymer fibre spoke. I even recall a wheel brand years ago where the spokes only attached at each end to the rims and were bent around the hubs. Don't think they still exist, which is telling.
Berd spokes are braided polyethylene. It's string, basically, made of the same stuff as plastic bags.
What I find particularly odd about the Berd spokes is that they are braided. Is this really what you'd want? All those undulations in the fibrils ready to straighten out under tension? The ultimate strength of the polymer is irrelevant if the way it is used results in entirely the wrong elastic behaviour. At least Spinergy's spokes are unidirectional fibres.
My guess is that one or more of the following things is true here.
1. The spokes are just a bad idea, but light
2. braided string is the only form Berd can get that material in
3. The wheel builder doesn't really know how to use them
4. The bike shop hasn't seen them before, doesn't know what the wheels should be like or doesn't know how to use them
5. building a wheel that does not feel like it is held together with string needs more tension than the rims can take (see 3).
FWIW I also don't really think carbon spokes are a terribly good idea either.0 -
Thanks for the comment and agreed zed not here to give their sideFirst.Aspect said:The Zed owner also isn't on here to give his side. That's the problem with these threads, if you will pardon the pun.
From Zed's perspective, you've taken the wheels to a bike shop, and the shop has adjusted them. I can see how this might have seemed like the most pragmatic way to get on the road, but it completely muddies the water doesn't it?
And it is hard to follow your story anyway. Sounds like the bike shop tried to adjust them. Actually videoed what they did to cover themselves and this later came to light, but also at some point that they've been back to Zed and then returned to you still faulty, and then lost entirely, which neither Zed nor the courier is accepting responsibility for. Sorry if this comes off as incredulous, but you are either the unluckiest person in the world, or there's more to this than first appears.
But overall, even if Zed doesn't have a leg to stand on - what sort of resolution are you expecting from the forum? If you are taking someone to court, is posting on here even in your interests?
Out of interest, have you tried your bank? Even with a debit card there are circumstances under which a payment can be reversed.
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Spinergy use "PBO" spokes - not the same polymer but the same general idea. Just a polymer fibre spoke. I even recall a wheel brand years ago where the spokes only attached at each end to the rims and were bent around the hubs. Don't think they still exist, which is telling.
Berd spokes are braided polyethylene. It's string, basically, made of the same stuff as plastic bags.
What I find particularly odd about the Berd spokes is that they are braided. Is this really what you'd want? All those undulations in the fibrils ready to straighten out under tension? The ultimate strength of the polymer is irrelevant if the way it is used results in entirely the wrong elastic behaviour. At least Spinergy's spokes are unidirectional fibres.
My guess is that one or more of the following things is true here.
1. The spokes are just a bad idea, but light
2. braided string is the only form Berd can get that material in
3. The wheel builder doesn't really know how to use them
4. The bike shop hasn't seen them before, doesn't know what the wheels should be like or doesn't know how to use them
5. building a wheel that does not feel like it is held together with string needs more tension than the rims can take (see 3).
FWIW I also don't really think carbon spokes are a terribly good idea either.
My objective was to see what others experience, if any has been. My thoughts, like you, were that this is all too nutty to just be pure bad luck on my part but wanted to hear.
The Sequence of events is as follows:
- Bought wheels
- They arrived two months late
- They were taken to very good bike shop to be fitted
- Bike shop contacted me to say that wheels were unfit to ride as they were
- Bike shop did not want to adjust or tinker with them as Berd Spokes and Zed had been clear about wanting to service them themselves. The bike shop were well aware of their own lack of experience with Berd Spokes and therefore being cautious. That being said regardless of material used the wheels should be true and not flex massively under very light load.
- Zed denied anything wrong with wheels but said they would take them back to have a look.
- Wheels sent back. Zed confirmed that nothing wrong with them and must be bike shop/ me that is wrong.
- Wheels returned to me. I took wheels to bike shop.
- Again, once fitted same issues clearly present and wheels totally unsafe to ride.
- Zed flat out denies any issues. Again blames everyone else
- Video and photo of wheels in action provided to Zed. Zed admits fault and gives a load of reasons about tension being affected by tyres being fitted and bedding in period (bearing in mind tyres were not mentioned before and the wheels were brand new so no bedding in period had been undergone).
- Zed suggested that he could send tools to bike shop to tension the spokes correctly and this should resolve. Basically just a different shaped spoke key to normal for the Berd string spokes.
- Bike shop (and me) no longer trusted Zed so the bike shop recorded the tensioning work done. The chap doing the tensioning is vastly experienced and is World class level mechanic.
- Bike shop confirmed the wheel issues not due to slight tension imbalance but fundamentally flawed. One of the rims probably defective.
- Zed then blamed the bike shop and tried to say that fault must be the result of un-authorised works carried out and therefore the wheels no longer under warranty.
- Told zed about works being recorded and bike shop happy to support legal claim. Zed then agreed to take wheels back.
- Wheels then lost by their courier 2.5 months ago.
- Zed have been really difficult to deal with throughout and now just going down legal route.
I don't think disclosing any of above affects legal rights as it is all documented via email correspondence and easy to uphold. They don't have a leg to stand on. Just a pain in backside having to go down this route. I have never experienced anything like it.
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SOunds like a pain...left the forum March 20230
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Why would you take the wheels to a bike shop to be fitted. I’m a pretty cr* p bike mechanic but I can put in my own wheels. How do you manage transport your bike or mend punctures without being able to take your wheels off your bike.1
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It does sound bad.
It has put me off Berd spokes, aside from anything else.
What I don't understand is why the bike shop with a world class mechanic is who wasn't comfortable with the spokes agreed to adjust the tensions, and why presumably you were going to pay them for that.0 -
I just don't understand the point of polythene spokes... a CX ray spoke is about 5 grams, there are 44 spokes in a wheelset, you can probably save 80grams by going for Berd spokes. 80 grams are worth a lot less that 1 Watt.First.Aspect said:It does sound bad.
It has put me off Berd spokes, aside from anything else.
What I don't understand is why the bike shop with a world class mechanic is who wasn't comfortable with the spokes agreed to adjust the tensions, and why presumably you were going to pay them for that.
On the contrary, the extra drag they create over a CX Ray spoke is worth a lot more than 1 Watt even at low speed. They are basically aimed at people who lift bikes to compare weight, rather than those who ride them...left the forum March 20230 -
Stop being so rational.ugo.santalucia said:
I just don't understand the point of polythene spokes... a CX ray spoke is about 5 grams, there are 44 spokes in a wheelset, you can probably save 80grams by going for Berd spokes. 80 grams are worth a lot less that 1 Watt.First.Aspect said:It does sound bad.
It has put me off Berd spokes, aside from anything else.
What I don't understand is why the bike shop with a world class mechanic is who wasn't comfortable with the spokes agreed to adjust the tensions, and why presumably you were going to pay them for that.
On the contrary, the extra drag they create over a CX Ray spoke is worth a lot more than 1 Watt even at low speed. They are basically aimed at people who lift bikes to compare weight, rather than those who ride them...
I once bought some handbuilts where to save 10g the guy had taken all the plastic seals off the cartridge bearings. I found out because the bearings lasted about 500 miles.
Caveat emptor0 -
a vastly experienced world class mechanic who felt the need to video his own work to cover his back....First.Aspect said:It does sound bad.
It has put me off Berd spokes, aside from anything else.
What I don't understand is why the bike shop with a world class mechanic is who wasn't comfortable with the spokes agreed to adjust the tensions, and why presumably you were going to pay them for that.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Still struggling with the notion that the wheel builder checked them and said they are fine, but a bike shop deems them so bad they are unrideable. It's still a bit early for panto isn't it?
And didn't anyone just measure the tension in the spokes?
Here is what Berd themselves say (to avoid reading, they lose 30% of tension in first six months, and "may need retensioning" which is hilarious):
"What are the tension and trueness specifications for new Berd wheels?
At Berd we strive to deliver the highest quality products and wheel builds. We true our wheels to within .50 mm radially, .25 mm laterally, and within .50 mm for the dish. The tension specification for finished Berd wheels is 70 kgf. Berd spokes will lose approximately 30% of their initial tension over the first six months but unlike metal spokes they maintain all of their strength regardless of tension and increasing the tension is not required. This is a normal process and a trained bicycle mechanic can bring the tension back up to 70 kgf or higher tension if desired."
And please, please do not try to figure out the bit about metal spokes losing strength if they aren't under enough tension. The reason that's hard to understand is because it is total bollocks and will cause any engineer to throw things at the screen.
If ever you needed anything to tell you that they are the spoke equivalent of L-shaped cranks, see above.
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We're still not sure of the timeline of events tbh.
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Starts with once upon a time, and we've got to the part about the ogre.MattFalle said:We're still not sure of the timeline of events tbh
If it's one of the German ones, the OP is about to get eaten. Otherwise, he'll get his money back and live happily ever after.3 -
Next time just buy a set of Zonda's!0
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totally agree, the concept that a rope losing tension has more strength than a metal stick losing tension is just unacceptable.First.Aspect said:Still struggling with the notion that the wheel builder checked them and said they are fine, but a bike shop deems them so bad they are unrideable. It's still a bit early for panto isn't it?
And didn't anyone just measure the tension in the spokes?
Here is what Berd themselves say (to avoid reading, they lose 30% of tension in first six months, and "may need retensioning" which is hilarious):
"What are the tension and trueness specifications for new Berd wheels?
At Berd we strive to deliver the highest quality products and wheel builds. We true our wheels to within .50 mm radially, .25 mm laterally, and within .50 mm for the dish. The tension specification for finished Berd wheels is 70 kgf. Berd spokes will lose approximately 30% of their initial tension over the first six months but unlike metal spokes they maintain all of their strength regardless of tension and increasing the tension is not required. This is a normal process and a trained bicycle mechanic can bring the tension back up to 70 kgf or higher tension if desired."
And please, please do not try to figure out the bit about metal spokes losing strength if they aren't under enough tension. The reason that's hard to understand is because it is total bollocks and will cause any engineer to throw things at the screen.
If ever you needed anything to tell you that they are the spoke equivalent of L-shaped cranks, see above.
Regardless of the spoke material, ultimately it is tension that decides the load bearing capacity... and 70 Kgf is quite low already and 30 kgf is way too low... I normally aim for an average of 90kgf (60/120 or so at the rear and 90/90 at the front)left the forum March 20230 -
Ironically I've ordered a pair of Zeds and my Zondas which have been great will be going on my wife's bike.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:Next time just buy a set of Zonda's!
I ordered on 29th Sept, were meant to take 5 days to dispatch, I emailed a month ago asked if I'd get a email to say they've been dispatched. Said I would, I've had no response since. I went for the 50s with bladed pillar PSR X-TRA spokes(all stuff which is way over my head) The main reason was they were 300g lighter than my prime SE 50s, which have been flawless. I was going to get another set of those, mainly because it was hassle swapping sets between bikes, the Zondas are so narrow compared to primes. Zed are similar in width.
I considered asking for a refund but I'll take a risk, I will be fitting them when they arrive but I won't be using to next spring. So I'm happy to wait as long as they come ready to rock out of the box. I'll update when I get. If they are struggling with meeting demand why on earth do they keep putting bloody sales on..
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If they are struggling with meeting demand why on earth do they keep putting bloody sales on..
Fair point, or if there is a long lead time make people aware of it. I have ordered from Malcom at Cycle Clinic and Derek at Wheelsmith before, they always advertise lead times on their website and keep you informed via email if something is going to take slightly longer to build.0 -
They are probably completely reliant on China imports and between lockdowns, New year celebrations and various supply chain issues, they might be struggling.
In 2014 I realised my wheel building was getting a bit too busy for someone doing it as a side thing. I had to decide whether I wanted to take it to the next level and what stopped me was that the all sector was going carbon and the only way to get carbon rims was to order large quantities direct from China, so a large capital investment and all the eggs in one basket, which was very different from the "order what you need" from the UK distributor model that had been popular up to that point.left the forum March 20230 -
I don't care about the delays, but surely you put something up about the them etc. I just checked the email with expected times etc. 5 days. If longer they would keep in contact. Why even include that?ugo.santalucia said:They are probably completely reliant on China imports and between lockdowns, New year celebrations and various supply chain issues, they might be struggling.
In 2014 I realised my wheel building was getting a bit too busy for someone doing it as a side thing. I had to decide whether I wanted to take it to the next level and what stopped me was that the all sector was going carbon and the only way to get carbon rims was to order large quantities direct from China, so a large capital investment and all the eggs in one basket, which was very different from the "order what you need" from the UK distributor model that had been popular up to that point.
Well I know who I'll be messaging now if I've any issues with my wheels. As I say I know less than very little. On here to gain knowledge from kind people like you 😁0 -
Just received my wheels off zed, they are bloody lovely 😃👍0
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