Retirement communities

No!!! not for me for my elderley parents who despite being in their mid-80s are living unaided in their own place. I started doing a bit of research and had a look at a retirement village and it far surpassed our expectations.

But, I still feel I am learning the lingo let alone having a full understanding so just thought I would see if anybody who has trodden this path has got some tips and pointers to help me and others avoid any pitfalls.

Comments

  • Hi,
    This is really difficult, but think you are very much doing the right thing by looking at different options now with them at the age they are.
    Both my mum and my mum in law were around this age and in good health. Sadly, both became ill very suddenly and sadly. One with dementia, the other with cancer of the brain.
    Not saying for one moment this will happen to yours, but a few things I learnt.
    This is not meant to be doom laden, but I learnt big time.Again, apologies if you have already done all of these and I hope may be useful for anyone reading this in a similar situation.
    It is well worth having the Power of Attorney for health and finance should anything happen and you need to make decisions. The Govt system is very good, but very slow currently.
    We had future proofed my Mum’s modern two bed house with a stairlift and walk in shower for my Dad and this helped enormously when she too fell ill. The retirement village place will be equipped like this I am sure so this could be useful.
    Get a good handle on the financial affairs so you know what there is and where it is… just in case.
    If your parents are up for the move this could be really positive as it allows you to work with them to ‘tidy’ some of their things ready to downsize. You also cannot put a price on knowing that they will be safe so ask about the hours when a warden/ similar are on site. someone close day and night just in case is fab.
    Watch out for the service charges and ask re selling in the future.
    Get some really good financial advice re the best use of their money at this stage.
    I hope this helps. Again not meant to be depressing nor patronising, but just things I learnt all about. The proactive things you are doing now are really worth it. Good luck with it all and my best wishes to your wonderful parents too!
  • I don't think that is either depressing or patronising so thak you for your thoughts.

    Our family is very practical so already have power of attorney (PoA)

    As you describe we anticipate health going down in steps rather than a gentle slide. Initially I think we were all dreading the idea of a move to such a place but now realise it will give them a new lease of life in terms of independence and social life.

    It has 24 warden/concierge and you can up the care package to any level except advanced dementia/alzheimers when you are a danger to yourself

    There do seem to be potential pitfalls around service charge and resell values but we aren't that fussed about inheritance so it is just making sure they can afford to stay there as long as necessary.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,914
    Every adult, no matter what their age, should have a Lasting Power of attorney in place, at minimum for 'Property and Financial', and ideally the 'Health and Welfare 'one too. It is really really easy to apply for and costs £82 for each version.
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

    As far as financing it goes, speak with a CF8 qualified IFA. Only advisers with CF8 can advise on funding long term care - and do some research on immediate care needs annuities.

    I personally think retirement villages are a fantastic concept, particularly where they allow the transition from warden assisted through to residential home to full blown care home. It allows 'safe' independence initially and a social life, thus helping to avoid the isolation that many old people living alone suffer with.
  • capt_slog
    capt_slog Posts: 3,943
    edited October 2022
    Not quite the same thing, (perhaps the next step on?) but my mum moved into a care home in feb/march 2019, just before they locked down due to covid and we couldn't go to see her!

    We've found it okay, the care is fairly good but the food can be bloody awful.

    @molteni_man mentions above about lasting Power of Attorney. I have the one for Finance and Property for mum, and just wanted to add that the health one is a separate form/set-up from the finance as far as i recall.

    EDIT I was typing this as Dorset_Boy was writing the above. :)



    The older I get, the better I was.

  • capt_slog said:

    Not quite the same thing, (perhaps the next step on?) but my mum moved into a care home in feb/march 2019, just before they locked down due to covid and we couldn't go to see her!

    We've found it okay, the care is fairly good but the food can be bloody awful.

    @molteni_man mentions above about lasting Power of Attorney. I have the one for Finance and Property for mum, and just wanted to add that the health one is a separate form/set-up from the finance as far as i recall.

    One of my brothers is a lawyer so I am confident we are all over that. If anybody else is interested I can find out more and would be happy to share
  • Every adult, no matter what their age, should have a Lasting Power of attorney in place, at minimum for 'Property and Financial', and ideally the 'Health and Welfare 'one too. It is really really easy to apply for and costs £82 for each version.
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

    As far as financing it goes, speak with a CF8 qualified IFA. Only advisers with CF8 can advise on funding long term care - and do some research on immediate care needs annuities.

    I personally think retirement villages are a fantastic concept, particularly where they allow the transition from warden assisted through to residential home to full blown care home. It allows 'safe' independence initially and a social life, thus helping to avoid the isolation that many old people living alone suffer with.

    Interesting to hear you are so positive about retirement villages, it was a real eye opener for us and transformed it from a decision we were dreading to one we wished we looked at 2 years ago.

    There were a scandals around the finances of these places 10-20 years ago are those all sorted?
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,914
    capt_slog said:

    Not quite the same thing, (perhaps the next step on?) but my mum moved into a care home in feb/march 2019, just before they locked down due to covid and we couldn't go to see her!

    We've found it okay, the care is fairly good but the food can be bloody awful.

    @molteni_man mentions above about lasting Power of Attorney. I have the one for Finance and Property for mum, and just wanted to add that the health one is a separate form/set-up from the finance as far as i recall.

    Yes there are two parts which are separate documents, P&F, and H&W. You can have the same attorneys or different ones.
    You should have at least 2 attorneys, usually you appoint the spouse, and then a child or children (someone at least 20 years younger than the donor). They can operate jointly or severally (ie you don't need all attorneys to sign everything).

    Zero point in doing it through a solicitor (unless its a family member doing it for free) as they will charge you a fortune for filling out the form as the wording is suitable for 99.99% of people.

    And to reiterate, every adult, no matter what age, needs to put an LPA in place - you can lose mental capacity very rapidly.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,914

    Every adult, no matter what their age, should have a Lasting Power of attorney in place, at minimum for 'Property and Financial', and ideally the 'Health and Welfare 'one too. It is really really easy to apply for and costs £82 for each version.
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

    As far as financing it goes, speak with a CF8 qualified IFA. Only advisers with CF8 can advise on funding long term care - and do some research on immediate care needs annuities.

    I personally think retirement villages are a fantastic concept, particularly where they allow the transition from warden assisted through to residential home to full blown care home. It allows 'safe' independence initially and a social life, thus helping to avoid the isolation that many old people living alone suffer with.

    Interesting to hear you are so positive about retirement villages, it was a real eye opener for us and transformed it from a decision we were dreading to one we wished we looked at 2 years ago.

    There were a scandals around the finances of these places 10-20 years ago are those all sorted?
    I don't know about the scandals around the finances of retirement villages. It is more I think the concept is fantastic. They are popular in Australia.
    As Molteni Man (hi there MP!!) says, it's being comfortable with things like ground rents, service charges, and fully establishing the resale conditions, and what happens when needing to transition from semi-independent living into more of a care setting.
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,559

    Every adult, no matter what their age, should have a Lasting Power of attorney in place, at minimum for 'Property and Financial', and ideally the 'Health and Welfare 'one too. It is really really easy to apply for and costs £82 for each version.
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

    As far as financing it goes, speak with a CF8 qualified IFA. Only advisers with CF8 can advise on funding long term care - and do some research on immediate care needs annuities.

    I personally think retirement villages are a fantastic concept, particularly where they allow the transition from warden assisted through to residential home to full blown care home. It allows 'safe' independence initially and a social life, thus helping to avoid the isolation that many old people living alone suffer with.

    Interesting to hear you are so positive about retirement villages, it was a real eye opener for us and transformed it from a decision we were dreading to one we wished we looked at 2 years ago.

    There were a scandals around the finances of these places 10-20 years ago are those all sorted?
    I don't know about the scandals around the finances of retirement villages. It is more I think the concept is fantastic. They are popular in Australia.
    As Molteni Man (hi there MP!!) says, it's being comfortable with things like ground rents, service charges, and fully establishing the resale conditions, and what happens when needing to transition from semi-independent living into more of a care setting.
    Here's an Australian experience: my mother moved into one, 13 years ago after my father's rather sudden death. At the time, our solicitor did say the financial aspects were definitely not anything in favour of the resident, but like @surrey_commuter I was none too concerned about the inheritance impact or otherwise.

    Financial considerations aside, since those will inevitably be different to the UK anyway, the social aspect is a mixed bag. At the time she moved in, the operators were actually pretty good at creating a proper social community for the residents. But the ownership changed hands several years ago, and the new company is much more focussed on the cost management and have simply not put the effort into the social stuff. And it shows, big time. There are a few residents who make the commitment to get things organised, but they get little help or encouragement from the operators at all.

    My mum is now (almost) 89 years old, and still manages to live independently with few issues. There are some advantages to her living in that village, but in all honesty I don't think it's been worth it purely from the cost aspect. If I could go back to the time we made the decision for her to move in there, I guarantee I would not do it again with what I know now.

    The real problem is social. She's now one of the longest-term residents there. That means pretty much everyone she knew from the start, or even people who've moved in later, are now gone - either out to an actual nursing home, or died. It's been monumentally depressing for her to see so many people she mixed with on a daily basis just - literally - drop dead, or lose their minds or whatever. There was a lovely old bloke she was great friends with in one of the villas across the way from her who had to be quite suddenly packed off to a home because almost overnight he started roaming around the village at 3am ringing doorbells looking for where his wife had gone to visit friends. She'd been dead 20 years.

    I've an architect friend who'd worked once for a firm specialising in design for nursing homes, retirement villages and aged care stuff generally. He hated it - referred to them as "coffin villages". I can understand why now. When mum moved in, I went along to one of the Friday evening social drinkies things with her to meet the other residents. Some truly delightful people too. And now, bar one woman who's still hanging on just barely, every single one of those people is either dead or no longer have a clue who they are.

    My mother is mentally a *very* strong and resilient woman, and has coped with that pretty well. Not everyone would I think.




    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • Every adult, no matter what their age, should have a Lasting Power of attorney in place, at minimum for 'Property and Financial', and ideally the 'Health and Welfare 'one too. It is really really easy to apply for and costs £82 for each version.
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

    As far as financing it goes, speak with a CF8 qualified IFA. Only advisers with CF8 can advise on funding long term care - and do some research on immediate care needs annuities.

    I personally think retirement villages are a fantastic concept, particularly where they allow the transition from warden assisted through to residential home to full blown care home. It allows 'safe' independence initially and a social life, thus helping to avoid the isolation that many old people living alone suffer with.

    Interesting to hear you are so positive about retirement villages, it was a real eye opener for us and transformed it from a decision we were dreading to one we wished we looked at 2 years ago.

    There were a scandals around the finances of these places 10-20 years ago are those all sorted?
    I don't know about the scandals around the finances of retirement villages. It is more I think the concept is fantastic. They are popular in Australia.
    As Molteni Man (hi there MP!!) says, it's being comfortable with things like ground rents, service charges, and fully establishing the resale conditions, and what happens when needing to transition from semi-independent living into more of a care setting.
    they were surprisingly relaxed about an £8k pa service charge. The idea is that by buying in care they would be able to stay put unless they become a danger to themselves.
  • Every adult, no matter what their age, should have a Lasting Power of attorney in place, at minimum for 'Property and Financial', and ideally the 'Health and Welfare 'one too. It is really really easy to apply for and costs £82 for each version.
    https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

    As far as financing it goes, speak with a CF8 qualified IFA. Only advisers with CF8 can advise on funding long term care - and do some research on immediate care needs annuities.

    I personally think retirement villages are a fantastic concept, particularly where they allow the transition from warden assisted through to residential home to full blown care home. It allows 'safe' independence initially and a social life, thus helping to avoid the isolation that many old people living alone suffer with.

    Interesting to hear you are so positive about retirement villages, it was a real eye opener for us and transformed it from a decision we were dreading to one we wished we looked at 2 years ago.

    There were a scandals around the finances of these places 10-20 years ago are those all sorted?
    I don't know about the scandals around the finances of retirement villages. It is more I think the concept is fantastic. They are popular in Australia.
    As Molteni Man (hi there MP!!) says, it's being comfortable with things like ground rents, service charges, and fully establishing the resale conditions, and what happens when needing to transition from semi-independent living into more of a care setting.
    Here's an Australian experience: my mother moved into one, 13 years ago after my father's rather sudden death. At the time, our solicitor did say the financial aspects were definitely not anything in favour of the resident, but like @surrey_commuter I was none too concerned about the inheritance impact or otherwise.

    Financial considerations aside, since those will inevitably be different to the UK anyway, the social aspect is a mixed bag. At the time she moved in, the operators were actually pretty good at creating a proper social community for the residents. But the ownership changed hands several years ago, and the new company is much more focussed on the cost management and have simply not put the effort into the social stuff. And it shows, big time. There are a few residents who make the commitment to get things organised, but they get little help or encouragement from the operators at all.

    My mum is now (almost) 89 years old, and still manages to live independently with few issues. There are some advantages to her living in that village, but in all honesty I don't think it's been worth it purely from the cost aspect. If I could go back to the time we made the decision for her to move in there, I guarantee I would not do it again with what I know now.

    The real problem is social. She's now one of the longest-term residents there. That means pretty much everyone she knew from the start, or even people who've moved in later, are now gone - either out to an actual nursing home, or died. It's been monumentally depressing for her to see so many people she mixed with on a daily basis just - literally - drop dead, or lose their minds or whatever. There was a lovely old bloke she was great friends with in one of the villas across the way from her who had to be quite suddenly packed off to a home because almost overnight he started roaming around the village at 3am ringing doorbells looking for where his wife had gone to visit friends. She'd been dead 20 years.

    I've an architect friend who'd worked once for a firm specialising in design for nursing homes, retirement villages and aged care stuff generally. He hated it - referred to them as "coffin villages". I can understand why now. When mum moved in, I went along to one of the Friday evening social drinkies things with her to meet the other residents. Some truly delightful people too. And now, bar one woman who's still hanging on just barely, every single one of those people is either dead or no longer have a clue who they are.

    My mother is mentally a *very* strong and resilient woman, and has coped with that pretty well. Not everyone would I think.




    could I ask what the other options are that you think you should have taken?

    My parents are 84 and 86 so used to people dying but I take your point.
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,559



    could I ask what the other options are that you think you should have taken?

    My parents are 84 and 86 so used to people dying but I take your point.


    The alternative would have been to find her a much more suitable home still out in the general community, where she'd have mixed with a much broader (age) range of people. In the circumstances at the time, that was awkward to do and the retirement village was an attractive and easy (if expensive) option.

    But mum was "only" 75 at the time. For your folks at mid-80's it perhaps is a more sensible choice. But I'd still be careful considering what the actual value is for your 8k fees, if not actual nursing care. Over the 13+ years here, Mum has paid around $100k in fees, and the reality is the tangible benefits for that have been slim. (It's not a nursing care facility at all.) The exit cost payable when she does sell up and leave the place will be another ~$200k.

    The actual amount of those fees is not the concern - its the value of what they're supposed to provide that I think has been lacking.

    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS


  • could I ask what the other options are that you think you should have taken?

    My parents are 84 and 86 so used to people dying but I take your point.


    The alternative would have been to find her a much more suitable home still out in the general community, where she'd have mixed with a much broader (age) range of people. In the circumstances at the time, that was awkward to do and the retirement village was an attractive and easy (if expensive) option.

    But mum was "only" 75 at the time. For your folks at mid-80's it perhaps is a more sensible choice. But I'd still be careful considering what the actual value is for your 8k fees, if not actual nursing care. Over the 13+ years here, Mum has paid around $100k in fees, and the reality is the tangible benefits for that have been slim. (It's not a nursing care facility at all.) The exit cost payable when she does sell up and leave the place will be another ~$200k.

    The actual amount of those fees is not the concern - its the value of what they're supposed to provide that I think has been lacking.

    the £8k covers maintenance of building s and grounds (20 acres) other major costs would be staff, pool, and lifts and shuttle bus.

    Exit cost is 1% for each year you owned which goes into the sink fund.

    My in-laws are mid-70s and I would say they are nowhere close to living in such a place but must look different if on your own.
  • capt_slog said:

    Not quite the same thing, (perhaps the next step on?) but my mum moved into a care home in feb/march 2019, just before they locked down due to covid and we couldn't go to see her!

    We've found it okay, the care is fairly good but the food can be bloody awful.

    @molteni_man mentions above about lasting Power of Attorney. I have the one for Finance and Property for mum, and just wanted to add that the health one is a separate form/set-up from the finance as far as i recall.

    Yes there are two parts which are separate documents, P&F, and H&W. You can have the same attorneys or different ones.
    You should have at least 2 attorneys, usually you appoint the spouse, and then a child or children (someone at least 20 years younger than the donor). They can operate jointly or severally (ie you don't need all attorneys to sign everything).

    Zero point in doing it through a solicitor (unless its a family member doing it for free) as they will charge you a fortune for filling out the form as the wording is suitable for 99.99% of people.

    And to reiterate, every adult, no matter what age, needs to put an LPA in place - you can lose mental capacity very rapidly.
    This is very very good advice ( Hey J! I guessed it was you a little while ago,espec with the Dorset connection!! Best wishes as ever!
    I did mine back in the Summer and they should be finalised any day soon. As Dorset Boy says no need for a solicitor,the Govt site is v effective, if a little slow. I’m 58 and am settled now that this is in place for my wife and son and daughter if ever needed. My wife is doing hers currently and will send these off imminently too. Having them just makes everything so much easier. I was fortunate to have them in place for my Mum …. should have done them even sooner… and it made sorting care both in terms of health and finance so much easier. They are a passport to being able to make decisions and get things sorted.
    To anyone reading this do please consider and action as Dorset Boy has suggested.
  • I don't think that is either depressing or patronising so thak you for your thoughts.

    Our family is very practical so already have power of attorney (PoA)

    As you describe we anticipate health going down in steps rather than a gentle slide. Initially I think we were all dreading the idea of a move to such a place but now realise it will give them a new lease of life in terms of independence and social life.

    It has 24 warden/concierge and you can up the care package to any level except advanced dementia/alzheimers when you are a danger to yourself

    There do seem to be potential pitfalls around service charge and resell values but we aren't that fussed about inheritance so it is just making sure they can afford to stay there as long as necessary.

    Reflecting, this does seem like a good move especially with those levels of care in place. Also, if there is a good consensus between all about this that really helps too.
    My mum was fiercely independent, a great quality, but meant that we could never get her to even think about a retirement community!
    By complete and sad coincidence my elderly uncle in law in Scotland has just had a stroke and is in hospital. He’s ‘ok’ but nowhere near ready for discharge. Him and my aunt in law have lived on their own, but now this is all thrown into great doubt. Their two sons are now attempting to get a care package in place, but this is very difficult because of the distance they live from them. The retirement village package you describe would be a solution by the sound of it.
    From my experience there is never a ‘ perfect solution’. I guess what I’ve learnt it that one never knows quite what is round the corner. Your proactive thinking around all areas is a really good thing. Best wishes.
  • bm5
    bm5 Posts: 530
    Kin my experience change of management is a real problem in a care home. It's difficult to move so the residents are stuck with the new regime.
    I also see Wheelspinners point re the village.
  • I don't think that is either depressing or patronising so thak you for your thoughts.

    Our family is very practical so already have power of attorney (PoA)

    As you describe we anticipate health going down in steps rather than a gentle slide. Initially I think we were all dreading the idea of a move to such a place but now realise it will give them a new lease of life in terms of independence and social life.

    It has 24 warden/concierge and you can up the care package to any level except advanced dementia/alzheimers when you are a danger to yourself

    There do seem to be potential pitfalls around service charge and resell values but we aren't that fussed about inheritance so it is just making sure they can afford to stay there as long as necessary.

    Reflecting, this does seem like a good move especially with those levels of care in place. Also, if there is a good consensus between all about this that really helps too.
    My mum was fiercely independent, a great quality, but meant that we could never get her to even think about a retirement community!
    By complete and sad coincidence my elderly uncle in law in Scotland has just had a stroke and is in hospital. He’s ‘ok’ but nowhere near ready for discharge. Him and my aunt in law have lived on their own, but now this is all thrown into great doubt. Their two sons are now attempting to get a care package in place, but this is very difficult because of the distance they live from them. The retirement village package you describe would be a solution by the sound of it.
    From my experience there is never a ‘ perfect solution’. I guess what I’ve learnt it that one never knows quite what is round the corner. Your proactive thinking around all areas is a really good thing. Best wishes.
    we are hoping to mak ethe move before this sort of incident happens
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,559



    could I ask what the other options are that you think you should have taken?

    My parents are 84 and 86 so used to people dying but I take your point.


    The alternative would have been to find her a much more suitable home still out in the general community, where she'd have mixed with a much broader (age) range of people. In the circumstances at the time, that was awkward to do and the retirement village was an attractive and easy (if expensive) option.

    But mum was "only" 75 at the time. For your folks at mid-80's it perhaps is a more sensible choice. But I'd still be careful considering what the actual value is for your 8k fees, if not actual nursing care. Over the 13+ years here, Mum has paid around $100k in fees, and the reality is the tangible benefits for that have been slim. (It's not a nursing care facility at all.) The exit cost payable when she does sell up and leave the place will be another ~$200k.

    The actual amount of those fees is not the concern - its the value of what they're supposed to provide that I think has been lacking.

    the £8k covers maintenance of building s and grounds (20 acres) other major costs would be staff, pool, and lifts and shuttle bus.

    Exit cost is 1% for each year you owned which goes into the sink fund.

    My in-laws are mid-70s and I would say they are nowhere close to living in such a place but must look different if on your own.
    Different conditions, similar principle. Fees do cover maintenance, although in all honesty the amount of work they've done is minimal in 13 years. The grounds and other facilities are nice, but worth the cost? Arguable...

    Exit costs here are triple yours - 3% per year up to maximum of 30% cap of sale price at exit, plus a (flat) fee for refurbishment I believe. The capital appreciation of the property has been - by Oz standards anyway - very low. Paid $340k in 2009, current estimate value is ~$500k. Given she's been there 13 years, the full 30% bite is payable, so 150 grand, plus the refurb fee which I think is $30k. So, in 13 years, the return is actually negative... quite an achievement!

    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS


  • could I ask what the other options are that you think you should have taken?

    My parents are 84 and 86 so used to people dying but I take your point.


    The alternative would have been to find her a much more suitable home still out in the general community, where she'd have mixed with a much broader (age) range of people. In the circumstances at the time, that was awkward to do and the retirement village was an attractive and easy (if expensive) option.

    But mum was "only" 75 at the time. For your folks at mid-80's it perhaps is a more sensible choice. But I'd still be careful considering what the actual value is for your 8k fees, if not actual nursing care. Over the 13+ years here, Mum has paid around $100k in fees, and the reality is the tangible benefits for that have been slim. (It's not a nursing care facility at all.) The exit cost payable when she does sell up and leave the place will be another ~$200k.

    The actual amount of those fees is not the concern - its the value of what they're supposed to provide that I think has been lacking.

    the £8k covers maintenance of building s and grounds (20 acres) other major costs would be staff, pool, and lifts and shuttle bus.

    Exit cost is 1% for each year you owned which goes into the sink fund.

    My in-laws are mid-70s and I would say they are nowhere close to living in such a place but must look different if on your own.
    Different conditions, similar principle. Fees do cover maintenance, although in all honesty the amount of work they've done is minimal in 13 years. The grounds and other facilities are nice, but worth the cost? Arguable...

    Exit costs here are triple yours - 3% per year up to maximum of 30% cap of sale price at exit, plus a (flat) fee for refurbishment I believe. The capital appreciation of the property has been - by Oz standards anyway - very low. Paid $340k in 2009, current estimate value is ~$500k. Given she's been there 13 years, the full 30% bite is payable, so 150 grand, plus the refurb fee which I think is $30k. So, in 13 years, the return is actually negative... quite an achievement!

    in the UK these places don't sem to see any capital appreciation
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,366

    capt_slog said:

    Not quite the same thing, (perhaps the next step on?) but my mum moved into a care home in feb/march 2019, just before they locked down due to covid and we couldn't go to see her!

    We've found it okay, the care is fairly good but the food can be bloody awful.

    @molteni_man mentions above about lasting Power of Attorney. I have the one for Finance and Property for mum, and just wanted to add that the health one is a separate form/set-up from the finance as far as i recall.

    Yes there are two parts which are separate documents, P&F, and H&W. You can have the same attorneys or different ones.
    You should have at least 2 attorneys, usually you appoint the spouse, and then a child or children (someone at least 20 years younger than the donor). They can operate jointly or severally (ie you don't need all attorneys to sign everything).

    Zero point in doing it through a solicitor (unless its a family member doing it for free) as they will charge you a fortune for filling out the form as the wording is suitable for 99.99% of people.

    And to reiterate, every adult, no matter what age, needs to put an LPA in place - you can lose mental capacity very rapidly.
    Sound advice, I did this with my parents and it came in very useful. Me and my OH will be doing this ourselves with our daughter as attorney in the near future.

    And it is pretty easy to do the forms yourself.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,660
    Right then, procedure Q.

    I've had my LPAs 1/2 done for.. erm.. quite some time. Put in all the base data but then got held by the witnessing / signing process. Which, as I understand, if one gets it wrong it's return to zero, pay again.

    So, anyone got the experience / knowledge to set out who has to sign what in what order? Or is it simpler to just print (how old school is that?) everything out, meet up with the nominees and pass round the paper?

    This is prob me getting stuck in the middle of paper world vs online world.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 16,501
    edited October 2022
    orraloon said:

    Right then, procedure Q.

    I've had my LPAs 1/2 done for.. erm.. quite some time. Put in all the base data but then got held by the witnessing / signing process. Which, as I understand, if one gets it wrong it's return to zero, pay again.

    So, anyone got the experience / knowledge to set out who has to sign what in what order? Or is it simpler to just print (how old school is that?) everything out, meet up with the nominees and pass round the paper?

    This is prob me getting stuck in the middle of paper world vs online world.

    order of signing is on the opg site...

    https://publicguardian.blog.gov.uk/2021/08/26/creating-an-lpa-frequently-asked-questions/

    the website is pretty clear, if there's nothing fiddly it looks easy to diy
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/make-a-lasting-power-of-attorney/lp12-make-and-register-your-lasting-power-of-attorney-a-guide-web-version

    went through doing both with my mum a while ago, the order of signing made things slower as the solicitor was present and obviously did it all by the book

    but, as i thought at the time, it's only dated, not time-stamped, do it all on the same day and there's no way within the lpa to say if it was correctly ordered or not, which makes a nonsense of it
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • orraloon said:

    Right then, procedure Q.

    I've had my LPAs 1/2 done for.. erm.. quite some time. Put in all the base data but then got held by the witnessing / signing process. Which, as I understand, if one gets it wrong it's return to zero, pay again.

    So, anyone got the experience / knowledge to set out who has to sign what in what order? Or is it simpler to just print (how old school is that?) everything out, meet up with the nominees and pass round the paper?

    This is prob me getting stuck in the middle of paper world vs online world.

    When I did mine it is the process of following the order as Sungod has outlined with link. Just make sure everything is in place there is a time limit from memory.
    As I type here my wife has just completed her LPA for finance to get the process started for her.
    My best friend sadly died in a diving accident about 6 years ago when he was 52. He didn’t have LPA’s in place and it made the process of doing everything so much harder for his wife, so as has been stated before it really is applicable for everyone.
    Good luck with completing.
    As I said in a previous posting on this thread, the system is good, but it is quite slow currently going through so another good reason to get it going. BW.
  • On another note, again from my own experience, my Mum and Dad took out funeral plans with the Co-op when they retired and had some spare cash available.
    These proved to be incredibly useful and made things so much easier when the time came.
    When Mum died I had to make just one phone call and everything clicked into place. No hassle, no extra worries and one less thing to think about. I was highly impressed.
    Little bit morbid at 58, but took out plans with the Co-op for me and my wife back in the Summer. Plans are backed by a strong history of Co-op providing them. We don’t plan on going anytime soon (!) but hope these will make things that bit easier for our two when the time comes.
  • It's all drinking at lunchtime and solving murders in those places, isn't it?
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,824

    On another note, again from my own experience, my Mum and Dad took out funeral plans with the Co-op when they retired and had some spare cash available.
    These proved to be incredibly useful and made things so much easier when the time came.
    When Mum died I had to make just one phone call and everything clicked into place. No hassle, no extra worries and one less thing to think about. I was highly impressed.
    Little bit morbid at 58, but took out plans with the Co-op for me and my wife back in the Summer. Plans are backed by a strong history of Co-op providing them. We don’t plan on going anytime soon (!) but hope these will make things that bit easier for our two when the time comes.


    This.

    For both of my parents. It was actually suggested as a sound 'investment', as there was cash in the bank: at the time, I think they were about £1000 each, but by the time they died, I think the cost had gone up to double (dad) and treble (mum) within 10-15 years, when investment rates were nowhere near that. And Co-op handled both funerals well.