(Pics of modded bike added) Good value road tyres for a youngsters road bike

daniel_b

Morning all,

I'm hoping to pick up a very small road bike with 700c wheels for my tall 9 year old daughter at the weekend.

It has stock tyres, which are 6 years old, and are likely very thin.

I want to introduce her to road riding but without loads of fairy visits preferably.

She's experienced enough to avoid pot holes, but I'm not convinced she has the instinct to avoid gravel and general debris that can yield a deflating experience.

The bike I am looking at is on 23s, and will take 25s as a maximum - happily at 9 years old she weighs not very much, so I will still be able to have the psi pretty low, 45/55 I would guess.

Anyway, I started having a look at suitable tyres.

I run Schwalbe Durano pluses on similar road bikes, and whilst they are great and almost impenetrable for a commute, they are slow, and I don't want to cancel out the difference she should experience when switching from a 26" frog bike with knobbly wide tyres to a 700c road bike.

I'm not sure what her mileage will be yet, but don't want to spend GP5000 money on them, so wondered if anyone had any recommendations for suitable tyres, budget up to £20 per tyre.

I had a quick look on Merlin, and these stood out as apparently incredible value, at only £9 each.:

https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-zaffiro-iv-folding-road-tyre-700c-95554.html

Very good reviews too.

Have to be honest, my experience with Vittoria tyres has not been that positive, cracked sidewalls etc on fairly young bikes, but those have generally come fitted on off the shelf bikes.

imposter2.0

Zaffiros are good. Rubinos and Rubino Pros slightly better. You wont go wrong with either.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Not used that tyre, but I have a pair of 28mm https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-rubino-pro-speed-g-isotech-folding-road-tyre-700c-87378.html iirc.

Only time I got a puncture was from a very pointy flint arrow/pebble towards the top of West Marden's rampy incline, I doubt anything short of Marathon+ would have stood a chance.

drhaggis

The most recent Conti Ultrasport? RRP is £21, wiggle has them oh so slightly cheaper. People seem to rate those. Plus there seem to be colours available that a kid might like.

Another bike of mine came with *folding* Hutchinson Equinox 2, and those were surprisingly good for the money. No idea whether those are available anymore.

And slightly OT, 700c for a 9 y.o.? She must be off the scales tall! My eldest has always been tall, and I can only now (11 y.o.) see him on 700c.

MattFalle

Bambino is running Prime 23s and hasn't had a problem - all year round, gravel, tarmac, cobbles, wherever 13 year old kids go on their bikes....

daniel_b

Thanks all, I did run Rubino pros on my partners bike for a while, but maybe she was unlucky, or it's the terrain/debris around here, but they were susceptible to fairy visits, and at least one ended up with a sidewall slash that meant it had to be binned - at that time they are about £11 a pop, perhaps they have changed since.

Likewise, Michelin Pro 3s and 4s have never faired well for me, where as Conti equivalents seem to.

Anyway, I digress - interesting shout on the Conti Ultrasports @drhaggis , I had after posting spotted those, and the colour options (And spot on, she is someone who likes her bike and kit to look good - I can't think who she gets that from) are certainly a consideration - I know black is more practical, and personally I only run black sidewall tyres now, having dabbled with colour tyres for a fair while, but I'm looking to encourage her in whatever way I can within reason, and if the bike looking good makes her more likely to want to ride, then that's fine with me.

She's pretty tall I guess, about 1m 50, so not far off 5ft tall, which is pretty tall I guess - her frog bike, according to their website, is for 12-14 year olds, and she had that when she was still 8 - I wanted to wait until her 9th birthday, but it was apparent she really needed a bigger bike, and I didn't want her to lose momentum, so she had it a couple of months early.
It already has a fairly healthy portion of seatpost showing, but it would be nice if she could get two years use out of it.

The road bike is a 44cm frame, with a fairly short (510) top tube, and has a short stem, but I can always pop a tiny one on if required until she gets used to the extra reach.
The Frog 73 has a 530 top tube (They are known for having a fairly long reach) but I think a shorter factory stem, and of course flat bars, so I suspect the reach to the flat bars on both bikes will be near identical, but of course reaching to the hoods will be extra, and that may require some more growing, and or measures to reduce the reach for her - if it's a 27.2mm seatpost I have an inline fsa knocking about, and I have amassed a collection of stems of many sizes too.

I know neither are optimal, but it would be a short term solution until she grows that bit taller.

I did consider a Giant Liv Avail, as these seem to come with the top tube brake levers as well, but I worry that will just persuade her to sit on the tops, and not really get the benefit from the bike that she could do.
I do realise you can retro fit them as well.

In reality, I'm unlikely to give her the bike until next spring at the earliest, probably summer wise if it looks like she has grown enough, I like to get the next bike in early, service it, fettle it, hang it up in the garage lob a sheet over it, and she's totally unaware it's sat there waiting - having said that, she is getting more and more savvy, so I'll need to be more on my toes than I used to.

daniel_b

The seller has sent me some more measurements, although not the crank length, which I'm going to assume is 170, though could be 165 I guess.

She currently has 11cm of seatpost showing on her frog, and the frame on the roadbike is 3cm more, plus 2cm extra crank length, would mean she would (as it stands) only have 6cm of seatpost showing.

However as I'm not going to give it to her for 6 months or so, I would imagine she will grow at least a couple of cm in the interim, so sounds like it should be a good fit, with room to grow - and should she start slowing down in height gain (Must happen soon) it will simply last her longer.

She's scratched the top tube of her frog a bit with her shoes, so I'm thinking to get some clear protective film to fit to this one, especially as it may be a keeper for longer than the usual.

molteni_man

daniel_b said:

Morning all,

I'm hoping to pick up a very small road bike with 700c wheels for my tall 9 year old daughter at the weekend.

It has stock tyres, which are 6 years old, and are likely very thin.

I want to introduce her to road riding but without loads of fairy visits preferably.

She's experienced enough to avoid pot holes, but I'm not convinced she has the instinct to avoid gravel and general debris that can yield a deflating experience.

The bike I am looking at is on 23s, and will take 25s as a maximum - happily at 9 years old she weighs not very much, so I will still be able to have the psi pretty low, 45/55 I would guess.

Anyway, I started having a look at suitable tyres.

I run Schwalbe Durano pluses on similar road bikes, and whilst they are great and almost impenetrable for a commute, they are slow, and I don't want to cancel out the difference she should experience when switching from a 26" frog bike with knobbly wide tyres to a 700c road bike.

I'm not sure what her mileage will be yet, but don't want to spend GP5000 money on them, so wondered if anyone had any recommendations for suitable tyres, budget up to £20 per tyre.

I had a quick look on Merlin, and these stood out as apparently incredible value, at only £9 each.:

https://www.merlincycles.com/vittoria-zaffiro-iv-folding-road-tyre-700c-95554.html

Very good reviews too.

Have to be honest, my experience with Vittoria tyres has not been that positive, cracked sidewalls etc on fairly young bikes, but those have generally come fitted on off the shelf bikes.

I used these on my previous Orro Terra. They were very good I have to say and survived winter and light gravel use really well…and the price has always been absolutely excellent!

super_davo

I'd go for the G2 Zaffiro at £13 each because:
1. They are better tyres
2. If you get the two normal Zaffiros you'd be under the £20 minimum free postage and would need to pay P&P or add something
3. Merlin have them in 25s, but only have the others in 23s.

drhaggis

daniel_b said:

She's pretty tall I guess, about 1m 50, so not far off 5ft tall, which is pretty tall I guess - her frog bike, according to their website, is for 12-14 year olds, and she had that when she was still 8 - I wanted to wait until her 9th birthday, but it was apparent she really needed a bigger bike, and I didn't want her to lose momentum, so she had it a couple of months early.
It already has a fairly healthy portion of seatpost showing, but it would be nice if she could get two years use out of it.

The road bike is a 44cm frame, with a fairly short (510) top tube, and has a short stem, but I can always pop a tiny one on if required until she gets used to the extra reach.
The Frog 73 has a 530 top tube (They are known for having a fairly long reach) but I think a shorter factory stem, and of course flat bars, so I suspect the reach to the flat bars on both bikes will be near identical, but of course reaching to the hoods will be extra, and that may require some more growing, and or measures to reduce the reach for her - if it's a 27.2mm seatpost I have an inline fsa knocking about, and I have amassed a collection of stems of many sizes too.

From the UK growth charts, your daughter should be growing about 6 cm/year for the next couple of years or so. That's quite a bit of seatpost progression! I guess there's also installing a longer flipped stem to manage stack/reach...

DISCLAIMER: I'm a random bloke in the internet and my expertise is not bike handling.

Something to bear in mind with a road bike is that short stems make the handling twitchier. Kids' bikes have this into account through the geometry, but an adult one may not to be that forgiving. Can you check if the fork/rake//steerer angle is specific for small sizes? If not, I'd avoid stems shorter than 60 mm.

You got the Bianchi from the "shopping" tread, right? A via nirone seems to have small-size specific geometry. For the 51cm bike, it comes with a 70 mm stem, a too wide 400 mm handlebar, and 170mm cranks

daniel_b

That's interesting, and yes I'm not sure how fast she will carry on growing, time will tell.

Good shout on the shorter stems, I have ridden down to 60mm on a road bike with no issues, but yes kiddies bikes have diddy little stems.

I bought the Bianchi off ebay, collecting it today after work - I hope it is as good as it looked and was described.

Good shout on the bars, I dare say I could put some 36s on, not like they are expensive in alloy form.

secretsam

I had Zaffiros on a bike, pretty tough but mot supple. Possibly not great in the wet. Might still have them if you want them!

daniel_b

Collected the bike, and it is in stunning condition - comes fitted with 23mm tyres, which I assume means they fitted different tyres to what was specced, as I think it was meant to come with 25s.

Not had a good chance to examine it yet, but also came with M520 pedals, which will be handy down the line.

The bars are 38cm wide (c2c) and I suspect the stem may have been changed, as it's rocking a 60mm deda something or other stem, but it does tie in (black and white) with the colour scheme on the whole.

I'll have to surreptitiously measure her shoulders at some point, on some ruse, and maybe look to get some 36cm bars on there if needed - I want to maximise the chance of it working for her off the bat really.

daniel_b

A search for narrower bars didn't turn up much at first, and deffo no bargains.

There are 36s out there, but far and few between, Giant and Spesh make some, circa £30. Condor make one too, but looks like a more old school style drop.

I bought my daughter some Hup clothing last winter, which has served her well, and their site came up on a search - they make these for £35 each, 32, 34, 36 & 38cm wide.

https://hupcc.com/collections/hup-kids-bike-components/products/hup-32cm-compact-drop-handlebars-kids-road-race-cyclocross-bikes

The bike comes with 38s, so thinking either the 34, or the 36.

Worthwhile making the change?

£35 doesn't seem like a large outlay, especially if it makes her more comfy and likely to ride, but equally I don't want to spend it, and the time fitting it, moving the levers across, unwrapping and rewrapping the bar tape if it's not going to make a tangible difference.

I've not measured her shoulders yet, but one of her cycling tops would suggest she is probably 36 wide.

drhaggis

Total hack, but maybe it's possible to guesstimate her shoulder width by matching t-shirts w/ your partner. I'd go for a rule-of-three, e.g. constant ratio of shoulder to t-shirt width.

If you have something fitting similarly at the shoulders, you could estimate your width as a rough validation (different gender and body build, of course).

Alternatively, wait until she's sleeping...

andrew_s-2

It is possible to over-think these things, as you'll generally just get used to the way the bike is set up, provided that there isn't an actual problem, such as the saddle height being significantly wrong.

I (1m85) have used bars between 34 cm, and flared drops that are 46 cm at the lever, and 54 cm at the end, without really noticing any real difference, other than catching a headwind more, or being less likely to snag a knee on the bar-end shifters.

Similarly, the handling of a bike doesn't relate to the stem length, in that turning the forks through the same angle has the same effect on how the bike steers.
What can cause a difference is the weight distribution, but if you move the saddle back to compensate for the extra stem length (as you should, otherwise you'll get problems from the extra weight on the hands), that won't change.
The other thing is what you do with your hands to turn the bars - a short stem is hands forwards and backwards, but as the stem gets longer, you get more side to side movement. That's something that you just get used to after a few days

photonic69

Before you go splashing the cash on changing things that might not need changing before she's even ridden the bike why don't you wait until she's had a few rides then buy the bits you need and explain to her what the bits do and how they change the handling/feel of the bike. She can also help you fit them. It will keep her interested in bikes and give her some skills too.

daniel_b

Thanks for the feedback :-)

I'm not planning to give her the bike until probably springtime next year.
Firstly I believe it's a little large for her currently, so 6 months growing time won't do any harm, secondly we are going into the crappy weather season, and lastly we only gave her the frog 73 in July.

That gives me a bit of time potentially to try and get things as right as I can, although I take your point @photonic69 of getting her involved with refining it etc, that's a good call.

I've ordered some clear helicopter tape yesterday, so at some point I'll give it a good wash (Not that it's mucky) and then apply that to the top tube, and probably forks, rear stays, and any other areas that look like they could do with some protection.

It may well sound like I am overthinking (And I probably am) things, but I guess for me this is quite a big thing, as cycling is my number one passion, and I feel like I want to give her the best path into it I can - not just for her enjoyment, but also hopefully that she will wish to continue.
She has already said she wants to do some CX racing this winter, with absolutely no input from myself, which is pretty encouraging.

Additionally the last little road bike (Frog road 59) she had, she did not take to (Despite having asked for one), but that was a good few years back and when she was much less experienced as a cyclist, so I'm hoping this time it is more likely to work for her.

I recall when I first started road cycling back in 2007, I bought a 56cm Felt F70 - gorgeous bike, but too big for me at the time, but as I was new to it, and not part of a club, didn't realise it for some time.

It had a 25mm setback seatpost, 110mm stem, and incredibly wide 440mm bars!
I was also not very flexible at the time, and had lower back issues (now mostly under control) so riding it was a fairly painful experience, if not at the time, then definitely afterwards.

I managed to rectify the fit on this bike, to some degree with an inline seatpost, 60mm inverted stem with all the spacers underneath, and 400mm bars.
The comfort was transformed and I could viably ride it.

Since then, and working on my flexibility, lower back issues and core strength, not to mention pure hours in the saddle, that bike is now, and has been my dedicated turbo bike for several years.

It now has a 90mm stem, not inverted, and halfway down the spacers if that makes sense. A 25mm setback seatpost, and the same 400mm bars - about to go on it for 90 minutes of Trainerroad in fact :-)

Anyway, I digress, what I was trying to say is that I guess I'm nervous she may experience similar discomfort to me if the bars are too wide, and I'm trying to reduce any of those possibilities.

I do like the idea of her riding with them though, and then maybe working with me to decide the right width if a change is needed, and helping me fit them, fit the bar tape, change the shifters over etc etc.

That will save me a job too

I've partially checked the gears already, and they seem spot on, not looked at the brakes yet, so need to do that, clean it and fit the helicopter tape - then next year I can drop the saddle to roughly where it needs to go, and we should be ready to go.

Thanks all.

photonic69

One thing you should change would be the bars. If they are that wide it's uncomfortable. Also it looks silly. When I bought my son his last bike it had very wide bars. He has a green long sleeve jersey and keeps his arms straighter than I'd like. He looked like Kermit on a bike.

daniel_b

6 months on, I thought I would update this post :-)

Gifted the bike to our daughter last Saturday, and it was very well received which was a relief!

Even more of a relief is that it looks perfect size wise, about 6cm of seatpost showing, so plenty of room to grow.

She took it for a little spin last weekend a few times, and then during the week she has been helping me make some changes.

She did say her hands felt a bit far part, and I could tell by looking, so the 34cm bars went on, and then we fitted the shifters around where we thought she wanted them, had a test ride, and tweaked them slightly inwards (Her request)
I also then had some ancient specialized gel pad things to go under tape, so we cut that down a fair bit, and put it along the tops, curving to meet the hoods, and a length each side in the drops of the bars, then went over it with the very lovely specialized liv bar tape I bought last year.

Managed to locate some spare supacaz pink bar end plugs as well which pleased her, and they are the expander plug types as well, so nice and solid.

At the same time we flipped and nearly slammed the stem, as when I bought it, it had all the spacers underneath and an inverted stem, I want to be able to lift it marginally as she grows and the saddle height increases to try and counteract the change of weight to the hands - the current saddle to bars height pretty much matches her Frog 73.
Also added a gps mount that sits on the end of the stem.

She took it for a test ride yesterday, and all was commented as being excellent, she's even been shifting cogs on the front changer (A new thing to her) and is also pretty proficient with the rear gears.

It's still running the stock 25mm tyres, so we'll leave those on for the time being, but I have spotted some rather lovely Celeste tyres which are available for £24.99 instead of £40, so will bag a pair of those I think and keep them until these ones die.
A couple of discounts mean I can get them from freewheel for about £21 each which I think is reasonable - and they are marketed as a training tyre allegedly.

The other bonus is that it has a fair bit of clearance surprisingly, in contrast to my CR1 - the tyres I am looking at are 28s, but in the future potentially 30s could go on.



Next upgrades will be the £12.99 long cage rear derailleur I have bought, the 12-36 cassette on the way from Merlin (It came with an 11-27!) and then at some point I've got some rather nice as new white medium depth alloy syncros wheels that can go on, but that's for next year I think.

Was hoping to get out with her today, but typical uk weather means it seems the rain has set in