New Ti Gravel Bike — Help Me Choose!
richys
Posts: 28
So, my old winter bike (lovely old Cannondale CAAD, one of the last ‘Made in USA’ with the nice smoothed welds) has entered semi-retirement in Europe. So, I need a new winter bike, and I’m looking to the collective expertise (and possible p!ss taking!) of the BR forum hive mind…
Given the sh!te state of the back roads around here (ruralish Kent), and the fact that there’s some good fire roads around the local forests, I was thinking of going for a gravel bike. I also fancy titanium because, well, I haven’t had a Ti bike before. Before anyone tries to convince me of another frame material: I’ve already got 3 steel bikes (well, 4 if you count the Brommie), a CF best bike, the alu CAAD and a PACE RC200 retro MTB. Which pretty much leaves Ti or bamboo left to try. And I don’t fancy bamboo!
I don’t want anything too expensive (under £2.5k would make it easy from an insurance perspective), and needs to be a whole bike from one place (C2W nonsense).
Current shortlist is the Planet X Tempest Force 1, and the Sonder Camino Ti GRX1. The PX bike was on bargain offer recently, so I might go for a Selcof wheel upgrade if they go back down in price.
The PX is definitely more road oriented, while the Camino has long’n’low geometry closer to an MTB. Not too sure about the really flared bars too (though I have a few old bars at home I could replace it with). Not really planning on doing any bike packing, but do want something that can take the abuse of winter without needing too much maintenance.
The other consideration is that all my other bikes (and tools) are Shimano. I’m sure I’d get used to the double tap of SRAM quickly enough, but not sure I can do with the hassle of bleeding DOT fluid brakes and all the new kit that will entail. I’ve not really ridden SRAM before, but heard a few people mention that the disc brakes aren’t nearly as good as the GRX ones.
So, anyone with any experience of either? Any other recommendations that could ship this winter (looking at you Ribble!) and aren’t silly expensive?
Cheers.
Given the sh!te state of the back roads around here (ruralish Kent), and the fact that there’s some good fire roads around the local forests, I was thinking of going for a gravel bike. I also fancy titanium because, well, I haven’t had a Ti bike before. Before anyone tries to convince me of another frame material: I’ve already got 3 steel bikes (well, 4 if you count the Brommie), a CF best bike, the alu CAAD and a PACE RC200 retro MTB. Which pretty much leaves Ti or bamboo left to try. And I don’t fancy bamboo!
I don’t want anything too expensive (under £2.5k would make it easy from an insurance perspective), and needs to be a whole bike from one place (C2W nonsense).
Current shortlist is the Planet X Tempest Force 1, and the Sonder Camino Ti GRX1. The PX bike was on bargain offer recently, so I might go for a Selcof wheel upgrade if they go back down in price.
The PX is definitely more road oriented, while the Camino has long’n’low geometry closer to an MTB. Not too sure about the really flared bars too (though I have a few old bars at home I could replace it with). Not really planning on doing any bike packing, but do want something that can take the abuse of winter without needing too much maintenance.
The other consideration is that all my other bikes (and tools) are Shimano. I’m sure I’d get used to the double tap of SRAM quickly enough, but not sure I can do with the hassle of bleeding DOT fluid brakes and all the new kit that will entail. I’ve not really ridden SRAM before, but heard a few people mention that the disc brakes aren’t nearly as good as the GRX ones.
So, anyone with any experience of either? Any other recommendations that could ship this winter (looking at you Ribble!) and aren’t silly expensive?
Cheers.
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It boils down to how far on the off-road spectrum you want to be. Most gravel bikes have gone 1x and fat tyres, but that does affect the on-road performance. You might want to look at just a disc road bike with a bit more tyre capacity.
Another PX ride could be https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBTIGRRIVAXS/titus-goldrush-sram-rival-axs-xplr-gravel-bike in your budget.0 -
Thanks me-109. Probably not too gnarly off road (I’ve got some old MTBs for that). Mostly just fire roads and bridleways (there are a lot around here and they nicely join up some of the rutted and muddy ‘roads’). I pretty much consider the Tempest a road bike with (very) good tyre clearance.
That Titus looks like a good buy as well. Pretty similar to the Camino geo wise, but around a set of cheapo carbon wheels cheaper (spec for spec). Hmm, this is making things harder not easier!
I think really it comes down to: would I feel the Titus/Camino annoyingly dog slow on the road, vs. the hanging on and hoping for the best with the Tempest if I venture a little too far off road?0 -
Hey richys,
Have a look at the Orro Terra C Hydro 105 Sorry it’s not Ti but I reckon it fits what you’re looking for in other aspects!
I got one having previously owned the first Orro Terra in alu, but it didn’t have the tyre clearance that the later models now come with.
Good levels of stock around https://www.merlincycles.com/orro-terra-c-105-hydro-gravel-bike-2022-270221.html?utm_source=PHG&app_clickref=1101lwbDg7Rs&source=PHG&utm_medium=Affiliates&utm_campaign=genieshopping
A good price too. Great off road and great on road too. I run 38mm tyres and these do both off and on road well. I’ll replace the rear cassette with a 32 or 34 tooth one when it wears out, but other than that all good for me. I have a pair of SKS Speedrocker mudguards which I fit when the roads are wet / in Winter. V easy to fit on and off and solid.0 -
Thanks Molteni, nice bike. I very nearly bought an Orro Venturi before getting the last good deal in Lockdown on a Cannondale Supersix Evo Hi-Mod.
But, the titanium bit is pretty much non negotiable (unless anyone still makes metal matrix composite frames). Being a boy of the 90s when titanium was the new wonder material, I’m keen to try it out. Could never afford a Merlin or Litespeed BITD, so thought I’d scratch that Ti itch now. This is totally not a rational purchase. Just want a +1 before the cost of living crisis means I have no excuse!0 -
I've just ordered a Dolan ADX disc using cycle to work. Don't have it yet so can't comment too much but have seen one in the showroom and it's looks very good quality. Definitely more of a road bike than gravel, with recommended 32mm max tyre width with mudguards. May not be a big enough tyre for what you want but for wht it's worth I've felt pretty comfortable off the tarmac on fire roads/bridleways/tracks with 30mm tubeless running 50-60psi on other bikes. 105 version for less than £2.5K and Ultegra for just above that, supplied with Mavic Aksiums and importantly in stock.0
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I have the Titus and a friend has the Camino Ti. They are near identical bikes and, i believe, made in the same factory.
The only difference is the sliding drop outs on the Titus. To be honest, I don't like this feature and would change it if I could. It's a bit heavy and makes carrying a spare hanger almost impossible as the hanger is integrated into the sliding mechanism and I never move the wheel anyway.
Having said that it's a great bike. I've almost exclusively used it offroad but in linking sections or the occasion road-orientated ride it's been good and would have been better with two sets of wheel/tires. It is 1x only which does limit your gears on the ride, I don't particularly mind this but it's worth considering.
Other gravel Ti bikes to look would be the Dolan or the Ribble.0 -
I've recently been helping a client looking for an identical bike although they have more flexibility with their budget.
The basic outcome is the conclusion you have come to. At your price point there really isn't much out there other than PX, Dolan or Sonder. They are all similar in terms of quality so I'd suggest buy the one that fits you best and has the best wheels ( or the worst wheels and upgrade them).Bikeauthority.cc
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I'm looking at something similar for end of next year. I really want a Reilly Kinesis or Enigma though, so budget more like £3k-£4k.
I read a review of the Kinesis Tripster AT last week, that threw a spanner in my thinking. OK, so it's only alu, but it seems to fit exactly my needs. It rides really well and the mudguards do a really good job. Trouble is, its very hard to find anywhere that will let you demo ride a Kinesis bike.
https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/gravel-bikes/2021-kinesis-tripster-at-review/
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I'd choose, and recommend, Reilly every timedavep1 said:I'm looking at something similar for end of next year. I really want a Reilly Kinesis or Enigma though, so budget more like £3k-£4k.
I read a review of the Kinesis Tripster AT last week, that threw a spanner in my thinking. OK, so it's only alu, but it seems to fit exactly my needs. It rides really well and the mudguards do a really good job. Trouble is, its very hard to find anywhere that will let you demo ride a Kinesis bike.
https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/gravel-bikes/2021-kinesis-tripster-at-review/
Bikeauthority.cc
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Good shout on the Dolan. I can get a GRX600 one with Mavic Aksum Allroads for around £2.6k. Frame looks very nice and being in stock in my size is a massive bonus.i.bhamra said:I've just ordered a Dolan ADX disc using cycle to work. Don't have it yet so can't comment too much but have seen one in the showroom and it's looks very good quality. Definitely more of a road bike than gravel, with recommended 32mm max tyre width with mudguards. May not be a big enough tyre for what you want but for wht it's worth I've felt pretty comfortable off the tarmac on fire roads/bridleways/tracks with 30mm tubeless running 50-60psi on other bikes. 105 version for less than £2.5K and Ultegra for just above that, supplied with Mavic Aksiums and importantly in stock.
Playing with the PX configurator, I can get a Tempest with electronic SRAM AXS Rival XPLR (what do SRAM have against vowels?!) with a power meter (not had one of those before — I need to prepare myself to be disappointed!) and some half decent Fulcrum wheels for just over £2.5k. Tough choice…0 -
They do look almost identical with basically the same geo don’t they? The dropouts strike me as one of those things you set once, then never bother touching again. Just some extra weight and something else to mysteriously creak to lug along.joeyhalloran said:I have the Titus and a friend has the Camino Ti. They are near identical bikes and, i believe, made in the same factory.
The only difference is the sliding drop outs on the Titus. To be honest, I don't like this feature and would change it if I could. It's a bit heavy and makes carrying a spare hanger almost impossible as the hanger is integrated into the sliding mechanism and I never move the wheel anyway.
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We inspected them pretty closely, the tube shapes are all very similar (i.e. the same to our eyes) between the Camino and the Goldrush too. I would choose based on the finishing kit and group set rather than drop outs. I have set it once and not moved it but it seems pretty solid and uses bigger hex bolts so not had any creaking. Also means I can run it as a single speed at some point if desired.0
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Would love a Reilly (or Enigma coming to that), but a bit out of my budget. I’m sure I read somewhere that the original PX Ti frames were built by Reilly, so hoping some of that goodness is still there. I think they’re built by Walty in China or Taiwan these days. Supposedly good quality frame builders. Can’t find anything on the internets to confirm though.davep1 said:I'm looking at something similar for end of next year. I really want a Reilly Kinesis or Enigma though, so budget more like £3k-£4k.
I looked at Kinesis, but they only seem to be selling framesets, and I need a full bike for C2W purposes. I suppose I could find somewhere that will build one up for me, but would probably work out a bit pricey. Maybe one to look into if I’ve got so,E s0 -
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You could well be right. Either way, decent heritage.joeyhalloran said:I am pretty sure they were designed by, not built by, Reily.
Interestingly there’s a Camino Ti review on the main BR site today. Pretty much confirms what I assumed — great off road and for bike packing, bit heavy and slow handling wise on road, and the bars are really not road oriented.
Thinking I’m pretty much settled on the Rival XPLR Tempest with power meter. Quite like the idea of wireless electronic and power. It’ll also help me to decide whether to spaff a load of wedge on 12sp Ultegra Di2 and a PM down the line for my Supersix.0 -
Now in a bit of a quandary…
PX won’t have any Rival power meters in stock for another 3 months. So, I can upgrade to Force XPLR with a PM for a chunk more cash. Once the C2W stuff filters through, it works out at around 300 quid more. Or I could buy a Rival PM crank from somewhere else for around £200.
Is the upgrade to Force worth it? Crankset seems a bit nicer, and I could add remote buttons for shifting on the tops. Other than that, doesn’t seem to be much in it.
Or do I just not bother with a PM for a gravel bike? Who the hell needs power when you’re hipster chillin’ on a gravel bike anyway?!0 -
Depends what you're doing. If you're gravel bike is really going to be for chilling and fun then it might be refreshing not having a PM. I now only have power of my turbo, as that's where I train, everything else is getting outside and enjoying the ride.
£100 for Force + powermeter seems worth it over Rival though.0 -
What is your rational for choosing Reilly over Enigma "every time"Bikeauthority.cc said:
I'd choose, and recommend, Reilly every timedavep1 said:I'm looking at something similar for end of next year. I really want a Reilly Kinesis or Enigma though, so budget more like £3k-£4k.
I read a review of the Kinesis Tripster AT last week, that threw a spanner in my thinking. OK, so it's only alu, but it seems to fit exactly my needs. It rides really well and the mudguards do a really good job. Trouble is, its very hard to find anywhere that will let you demo ride a Kinesis bike.
https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/gravel-bikes/2021-kinesis-tripster-at-review/
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Right, the order has now gone in for a large Planet X Tempest with Rival AXS XPLR and a wheel upgrade to Fulcrum Rapid Red 500 wheels and WTB Nano (not tubeless compatible sadly). I decided the upgrade to Force just to get a PM wasn’t really worth it (and would have meant some insurance hassle going over my £2.5k current limit).
Stock isn’t due in until the end of Oct, so probably arriving some time in mid Nov. I’ll let everyone know what it’s like. Quite excited to try SRAM and electronic for the first time!
Thanks for everyone’s help and advice on here. N+1 done for now…0 -
The eagle has landed! Annoyingly when it was dark and with a busy day tomorrow.
Anyway, here’s the photo PX sent me before it got put in its box. 
I’ll report back after I’ve put it together and gone for a shakedown…0 -
The cycling gods are clearly smiling on me as today an Aliexpress ‘special’ Toseek carbon post arrived (along with a couple of Ti bottle cages). But, all my bikes are either carbon post in carbon frame or metal into metal. What’s the best approach with carbon into Ti? I’m guessing carbon paste as grease could react badly with the resin? No idea though…0
