Getting a new mid range bike - Di2 vs old mechanical groupsets

DDre

Been cycling for about a year and now looking to upgrade to a New Mid range bicycle. It seems most of these bikes come with 105 R7000, Ultegra R8000 (and Centaur). My understanding these groupsets have been discontinued in favour to newer di2. It feels a bit odd to buy a new bike with an already "outdated" groupset, however 105 Di2 bikes are difficult to find a frankly out of the typical mid range budget.

Would you recommend getting an older groupset or wait before taking the plunge, as its not the right time to be in the market for an enthusiast bike.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

As highlighted on various threads, not much need for electronic unless you just simply would like it (nothing wrong with that).

Mechanical works just as well, easier to maintain for the 'home' mechanic and cheaper to replace parts if you damage any (thinking rear derailleur crash damage in particular).

You are right, shimano seem to be moving away from mechanical but a groupset should last you a fair while and chains/casettes will not be a problem to replace.

Bike prices are also rising above inflation year on year (like everything) so if you wait, this year's mid range will be next year's entry level 😉

super_davo

Rather than worry about old vs new, simple question is what sort of riding do you do (hilly, flat, cafe rides / sportives / racing, all weathers etc.) and then you can work out what bike is best for you, and that wll have the groupset that comes in the price bracket you can afford.

I have lots of bikes with "old" mechanical 11 speed, and one bike with "new" 12 speed Di2 and I would say:
- If you are the sort of person that wants to buy a bike, do no maintenance & take it into a shop for them to service, then there are major advantages from Di2. If the thought of spending £100+ for the above each year makes you wince or you enjoy doing maintenance yourself then that doesn't apply
- If you're into racing or hilly rides then you'll be getting a lighter bike for your money with mechanical. There are many articles on how important that actually is but it is to some (and Rival AXS in particular weighs a ton).
- If you are getting a bike with hidden cables then wireless electronic is a godsend else add an hour or £50 to each basic maintenance task
- If you can remember to charge your Garmin, you can remember to charge your Di2. If you can't - just get mechanical.

Groupset is only a part of the overall package though, it is more important to get the bike that suits the riding you want to do.

pblakeney

super_davo said:

...
Groupset is only a part of the overall package though, it is more important to get the bike that suits the riding you want to do.

I'd suggest this. Get the right frame, then components come and go. You often get better deals on complete bikes and personal choices vary though so feel free to ignore.

singleton

It's about the overall package for a given price point.
I just bought a new bike and I didn't get electronic gears.
Electronic is more expensive, and for a given price point, I preferred to stick with mechanical and get better components elsewhere.

Munsford0

Di2 is an order of magnitude more expensive than the mechanical equivalent. And the way things are going at the moment I can't see anything becoming cheaper any time soon.

Set a budget, and concentrate on buying the kind of bike for the riding you'll be doing. Getting the correct size is more important than the groupset. I think paint job is pretty crucial too; - you want to love your new bike. If your budget will buy you a decent frame with R7000 it's still going to be a pretty good bike.

FWIW I'm still riding 10 speed 105 that's now 15 years old. Cheap and easy to maintain.

Mind you, I am an old git who doesn't feel the urge to buy the latest thing...

laurentian

I have mechanical (10 year old Ultegra) and have ridden Di2.

When I clicked the gear lever on the Di2 I rode, the gears changed, when I do the same on my mechanical, the gears also change. Having electronic gear change will not really change your riding experience, how many gears you can have or, assuming they are set up correctly, how well they change.

I wouldn't have a clue where to start with working on a Di2 groupset (probably because I've never owned one) but very much enjoy "tuning in" and maintaining my mechanical set up.

Apart from anything else, if a bike with Di2 is out of your price range, the choice is made for you.

Find a bike you like and that suits what you need it for, make sure it's the right size and you'll learn the rest.

slowmart

I’ve had Di2 and went to mechanical. While Di2 worked flawlessly for three years of ownership my choice was to simplify things and mechanical works fine.

And don’t lose focus, a new version may not necessarily be better (from a everyday cyclists view) than the superseded version. Di2 and 12 speed being a perfect example of different but not better however it is a marketeers wet dream and drives revenue.

wallace_and_gromit

As others have said, mechanical is more than man enough for the job. My old best bike has 2011 ultegra 6700 and when properly fettled, is silky smooth and very reliable.

I’ve just gone to electronic gears almost by accident. The limited supply of new bikes earlier this summer meant that to get the frame I wanted, electronic was the only option. Much to my surprise, I really rate the new technology. It’s like lots of kit on cars - you don’t need it but it makes using the bike a nicer experience. (Gear changes are easier when tired or when fingers are cold and there are various modes you can set up eg where you just press the up or down button and the bike decides when to change at the front.)

There is obviously more that can go wrong. I have wireless SRAM, and I managed to un-pair the shifters from the derailleurs one ride by accident. Luckily I knew how to re-pair them, but without this luck, Fleet Moss in the big ring would have been a tough challenge!

But saving the cash and going on hols to ride a mechanically equipped bike in a nice place is not a bad option!

grenw

Just to balance things out...

I went electronic on my last bike. More because I wanted something new and an 'upgrade'. Effectively something to justify buying a new bike. I don't regret it one bit.

I can maintain most things myself. Brakes, cassettes, chains, pedals etc. Tend to leave headsets and wheels to the experts but I never ever got on well with indexing gears. Don't know why, it just never clicked. In 5 years I've never touched the gears on my bike. They just work. No cables to stretch or wear. Yes you have to keep an eye on the battery but I'll probably charge it every 2-3 months.

Changes are different. For me better. Especially the front mech. No pressure needed and you don't have to 'move' anything yourself. It all adds to a nicer experience but granted you do pay for it.

I do fear the day anything needs replacing but the one off I had luckily only needed a new hanger so my wallet lived to fight another day

wallace_and_gromit

grenw said:

...I never ever got on well with indexing gears. Don't know why, it just never clicked.

There must be a pun in there somewhere!

carbonclem

I've had my first electronic shifting bike this year. I've had to fettle the indexing once but that's a very simple task that was explained by a two minute You Tube video (and way easier than twisting a spring loaded barrel adjuster) .
Any other maintainence is cassette and chain based which is no different to mechanical? So I'm at a loss to understand the fear regarding on going maintainence ... ?
I'm a believer in getting the most up to date tech that you can when changing anything, simply so it stays up to date longer.

I've other bikes with mechanical shifting and they all work fine, but anyone who thinks e-shifting isn't generally better (lighter, smoother, accurate etc) is being contrary.

DeVlaeminck

I would say it's different - not sure it's better than well set up mechanical. If I push a button or move a lever and it goes into the gear I want then functionally isn't that as good as it gets - the rest is subjective preference.

daniel_b

Mechanical over Di2 will not alter your enjoyment of the sport, prices are currently only going in one direction, so if you are keen to buy, I would get one now with 105 or Ultegra mechanical.

There's nothing to stop you upgrading the groupset further down the line/once it wears out of course.

wallace_and_gromit

DeVlaeminck said:

I would say it's different - not sure it's better than well set up mechanical. If I push a button or move a lever and it goes into the gear I want then functionally isn't that as good as it gets - the rest is subjective preference.

There is something profoundly satisfying about changing the front ring via the simultaneous left/right press on eTap. There's a whir and then a distinctive clunk that is worth at least 10 more watts psychologically!

ibr17xvii

I've got both Di2 & mechanical.

If push came to shove I'd say I prefer electronic but my Ultegra mechanical does what I need it to do.

I like the no faff of electronic as I'm not great at fettling & if I'm honest I don't particulalrly enjoy it either (I'd rather be riding) so from that point of view Di2 is "better", it just works 1st time, every time. I've literally never touched it since the day it was set up.

Yes Di2 is expensive. Is it worth it? It is to me but it won't be to everyone.

katani

wallace_and_gromit said:

DeVlaeminck said:

I would say it's different - not sure it's better than well set up mechanical. If I push a button or move a lever and it goes into the gear I want then functionally isn't that as good as it gets - the rest is subjective preference.

There is something profoundly satisfying about changing the front ring via the simultaneous left/right press on eTap. There's a whir and then a distinctive clunk that is worth at least 10 more watts psychologically!

eTap is brilliant ergonomically except when having to microadjust on the road. You have to depress the small button on the inside of the tab while simultaneously move the lever in the opposite direction which is very inconvenient if not impossible to do when riding the bike. They didn't think it through. Di2, except the newest one, is far better as you simply put the whole system into a micro adjustment mode at the A junction box. I needed to do this maybe 3 times within 50k miles though after having the rear mech accidentally knocked out of alignment. The newest Di2 doesn't have a junction box, so misses that functionality out completely.

diamonddog

I have never had to microadjust etap on the road in the years I have had it, once adjusted correctly it works.
We had flooding a few years back and the bike was under water for 2 days, it was cleaned after the flood receded and the batteries and charger (kept in a plastic box which had about 1cm of water in it) were dried and the batteries charged. It has worked perfectly since then and still not needed any microadjusting on the road.

trevor.hall12

katani said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

DeVlaeminck said:

I would say it's different - not sure it's better than well set up mechanical. If I push a button or move a lever and it goes into the gear I want then functionally isn't that as good as it gets - the rest is subjective preference.

There is something profoundly satisfying about changing the front ring via the simultaneous left/right press on eTap. There's a whir and then a distinctive clunk that is worth at least 10 more watts psychologically!

eTap is brilliant ergonomically except when having to microadjust on the road. You have to depress the small button on the inside of the tab while simultaneously move the lever in the opposite direction which is very inconvenient if not impossible to do when riding the bike. They didn't think it through. Di2, except the newest one, is far better as you simply put the whole system into a micro adjustment mode at the A junction box. I needed to do this maybe 3 times within 50k miles though after having the rear mech accidentally knocked out of alignment. The newest Di2 doesn't have a junction box, so misses that functionality out completely.

The new 12 sp Di2 does have the micro adjust it operates in the app and almost exactly the same as the old one except you press and hold the RD button to get adjustment mode from there too
Also unsure how or why you would want to do adjustments on the road while moving

paulwood

Seems I am different to most of the comments but having Di2 has changed the way I ride a little. I probably change gear about twice as often as I did with mechanical. Yes, i know mechanical is easy but it is a little bit of effort and then just a pause while everything clicks into place. Di2, press a button and forget about it. Just seems to make me change more than I otherwise would.

I do love the way the rear changes automatically when you shift the front chainring. whenever i ride a bike that doesn't do this it does seem a faff to do it by hand. And front changes under power.....lovely.

DDre

Thanks for your opinions. It seems most agree that for my use case a mechanical groupset would be just as good. I found good deal on a Wilier Triestina GTR team. Trying to decide between the Ultegra R8000 and Campagnolo Centaur.

https://www.merlincycles.com/wilier-gtr-team-centaur-road-bike-205370.html

https://www.merlincycles.com/wilier-gtr-team-ultegra-road-bike-1-221678.html

With the money saved, I can probably get a nice set of wheels.

trevor.hall12

paulwood said:

Seems I am different to most of the comments but having Di2 has changed the way I ride a little. I probably change gear about twice as often as I did with mechanical. Yes, i know mechanical is easy but it is a little bit of effort and then just a pause while everything clicks into place. Di2, press a button and forget about it. Just seems to make me change more than I otherwise would.

I do love the way the rear changes automatically when you shift the front chainring. whenever i ride a bike that doesn't do this it does seem a faff to do it by hand. And front changes under power.....lovely.

Syncro shift is one of those Marmite functions of Di2 ,I used it ot to start with but now never do .
I like tge connection to garmin mostly .
Having my gears up front on screen isn't a big deal but I missi it heaps when it's not there, scrolling with the hidden buttons too

airwise

Mechanical, there's no evidence the an electronic setup i faster than a mechanical on all this might.

vincesummerskRoxcBTr

I have got 11sp 105/Ultegra mechanical system on a 2 year old bike, now done 4,500 miles on it.
It changes very smoothly, I often haven't even noticed I have changed gear. Also no faults or fettling needed in that time.
Not sure why I would want an e set up.

andyh01

I've just gone through this. I had a nice Mason Bokeh adventure bike with mechanical ultegra & hydro disc brakes (one could make similar argument rim brakes easier to maintain but hydro disc more powerful and effective obviously few other benefits no rim brake track to wear and replace disc rather than wheel) that got stolen and was looking for a replacement bike mainly for commuting. I ended up going second hand, picked up nearly new giant Defy with current ultegra mechanical shifting, same as the Mason as I know that works (before the mason I had a 105 and other than brakes rim to disc I wouldn't know the difference) I was talking to a cycling mate who argued tiagra just as good , the extra gear is 1 tooth so again most ppl wouldn't know. It's a bit like analogue v digital, analogue whilst not quiet as crisp or sharp will work to some degree , whereas digital when it works is sharper and crisp until it doesn't work. There's also the issue of charging, Di2 integrated battery means the bike needs access to plug socket, whereas SRAM runs on removable batteries so at a pinch you could swap front and back ones around.
Having said this, a couple points have since occured to me and I'm wondering whether to "upgrade" to electronic shifting.
For the first time, I have 2 wheelsets which needs the gears indexing each time I swap over , I wonder with electronic how easy/quick process if needed at all would be?
Secondly I do get really cold hands and so end up with a couple pairs of gloves and can find it difficult to change gears, the outter gloves have a gap at end of fingers which can get caught between the levers when changing gears. Doesn't help I have slight nerve damage to tips of couple of fingers on right hand after a stupid accident involving a petrol lawnmower

andyh01

Just to add, it's not that Shimano is stopping making mechanical groupsets , they're just changed the names from 105/ultegra to grx prefix.
Bit of a marketing ploy as allows to.mix n match different tiers easier and less obvious so when bike says ulterior but the levers don't have ultegra written on them less ppl not in the know won't realise ...
The grx cassette maybe more gravel focused ratio but di2 road cassette would also work with grx I believe.

michaelmichaelmichael

Things I like about electronic over mechanical - being able to re-program and personalise the shift buttons, having an additional satellite to shift from the tops, and personally I never liked having to move the whole lever to shift on Shimano mechanical

arlowood

DDre said:

Thanks for your opinions. It seems most agree that for my use case a mechanical groupset would be just as good. I found good deal on a Wilier Triestina GTR team. Trying to decide between the Ultegra R8000 and Campagnolo Centaur.

https://www.merlincycles.com/wilier-gtr-team-centaur-road-bike-205370.html

https://www.merlincycles.com/wilier-gtr-team-ultegra-road-bike-1-221678.html

With the money saved, I can probably get a nice set of wheels.

Not a lot to choose between them. The Campag equipped model has a slightly wider cassette range (11-32 vs 11-28) so if you do a lot of hilly riding that might make it more appealing. That said I'm sure you could also swap out the Ultegra 11-28 for an 11-32 at a relatively low cost.

In general Campag replacement parts eg cassettes, tend to be more expensive than Shimano. So it's a bit of swings and roundabouts. I don't think you would be disappointed by either