Hot water usage - How to save.

diplodicus

mully79 said:

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diplodicus said:

mully79 said:

I know from last winter that boiler on full power costs loads but efficiency is a bit of a minefield.

I’ve turned the combi boiler hot water and central heating temp down from 75deg C to 55 deg C (octopus suggestion) and no one else in the house has noticed. With no smart meter it’s going to take a while to work out if that’s better or not.

It will definitely be better. A condensing boiler ceases to condense at temperatures over 55°C, therefore it will be 6% to 10% (according to people who teach these things) more efficient if it is permanently in condensing mode (below 55°C)

Hot water is apparently only 15% of gas usage when compared with space heating.

The most efficient way to use a gas boiler at the moment is a "domestic hot water priority" system. This is where the system can detect whether it is doing hot water or heating. If doing hot water then it runs at 70°C to avoid legionella and 55°C for heating to remain in condensing mode. Retrofit can be awkward though

Thanks for this, inspired me to do some more research.
The gas flue condensation temp* is 55 Deg C and can be used to preheat returning CH water as long as its below 55 Deg C.

if return water is higher than 55 then I guess that more energy is wasted as the return water would be heating the flue gas being exhausted.

im assuming that the 55 deg C dew point varies slighty with ambient temperature hence more advanced controls have an outside temperature probe so that this balance can be optimised.

The outside temp sensor is part of a "weather compensation" system. When set correctly with the heating curve on the boiler, it effectively lowers the flow temp/heat output of the system. Combine this with a load compensation room stat and the heating system wastes less by only heating the building to set temp and not beyond.

ugo.santalucia

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

pblakeney

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

ugo.santalucia

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

Her generation wasn't one to spend much time on the sofa... they had a small farm and there was always stuff to do. They used a wet flannel to rinse off the sweat and that was about it.
I think our generation has gone hygiene mad... I have heard of people showering multiple times a day and washing their hair every day... the skin is not designed to take all that soap.

pblakeney

I'm sure there is a happy medium. Your suggestion wouldn't go down well in my house post 100 mile cycle, or a commute even, for example.

ugo.santalucia

pblakeney said:

I'm sure there is a happy medium. Your suggestion wouldn't go down well in my house post 100 mile cycle, or a commute even, for example.

Try a damp flannel, takes away the sweat and you're good as gold... however, you might have to bleach your bed linen, or it'll end up looking like the holy shroud

focuszing723

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Was that like a treat then, for her Birthday and Christmas?

ugo.santalucia

focuszing723 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Was that like a treat then, for her Birthday and Christmas?

Birthdays are a modern thing, no peasants celebrated them at the time, in the 1920s and 30s. In those days there were two dates in the calendar to celebrate: one was Christmas and the other was the feast they used to have after harvesting wheat, so some time in late June (in Italy). I am guessing those were the times to scrub up and wear a dress/suit

ugo.santalucia

Anyway, cheer up because that's the direction of travel.
With my associate professor salary, I will be in fuel poverty comes January... we will all be a lot less fussy, I tell ya

DeVlaeminck

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

Her generation wasn't one to spend much time on the sofa... they had a small farm and there was always stuff to do. They used a wet flannel to rinse off the sweat and that was about it.
I think our generation has gone hygiene mad... I have heard of people showering multiple times a day and washing their hair every day... the skin is not designed to take all that soap.

Agreed - I haven't washed my hair since the start of covid.

DeVlaeminck

ugo.santalucia said:

focuszing723 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Was that like a treat then, for her Birthday and Christmas?

Birthdays are a modern thing, no peasants celebrated them at the time, in the 1920s and 30s. In those days there were two dates in the calendar to celebrate: one was Christmas and the other was the feast they used to have after harvesting wheat, so some time in late June (in Italy). I am guessing those were the times to scrub up and wear a dress/suit

I must have been an Italian peasant in a former life - I always tell my family not to buy me cards.

Actually it sounds like I may have been an Italian peasant in a previous life as I don't celebrate birthdays either - hate getting cards my family all know never to buy me one - I do buy my mum a Mother's Day card as a concession to the card industry's marketing success but that's it other than Xmas.

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck said:

ugo.santalucia said:

focuszing723 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Was that like a treat then, for her Birthday and Christmas?

Birthdays are a modern thing, no peasants celebrated them at the time, in the 1920s and 30s. In those days there were two dates in the calendar to celebrate: one was Christmas and the other was the feast they used to have after harvesting wheat, so some time in late June (in Italy). I am guessing those were the times to scrub up and wear a dress/suit

I must have been an Italian peasant in a former life - I always tell my family not to buy me cards.

Actually it sounds like I may have been an Italian peasant in a previous life as I don't celebrate birthdays either - hate getting cards my family all know never to buy me one - I do buy my mum a Mother's Day card as a concession to the card industry's marketing success but that's it other than Xmas.

Tell me about it, my wife always harasses me with this birthday thing... "what do you want for your birthday?" etc... so I bought myself a pair of Oakleys and asked her to put the money on my account... she seemed happy enough to comply... big 50th sorted!

seanoconn

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

Her generation wasn't one to spend much time on the sofa... they had a small farm and there was always stuff to do. They used a wet flannel to rinse off the sweat and that was about it.
I think our generation has gone hygiene mad... I have heard of people showering multiple times a day and washing their hair every day... the skin is not designed to take all that soap.

We didn’t have a bathroom until I was 6 years old. We had a tin bath in the garden or would wash in the Belfast sink or from a plastic bowl. Outside toilet was at the end of the Garden. Wasn’t that long ago and don’t remember us being particularly poor. Even wifey raised in Communist era country can’t outdo my hardship 😎

davidof

seanoconn said:

We didn’t have a bathroom until I was 6 years old. We had a tin bath in the garden or would wash in the Belfast sink or from a plastic bowl. Outside toilet was at the end of the Garden.

aye, we used to bathe in t'frozen puddle in middle of t'road and shit in t'neighbour's allotment

sungod

davidof said:

seanoconn said:

We didn’t have a bathroom until I was 6 years old. We had a tin bath in the garden or would wash in the Belfast sink or from a plastic bowl. Outside toilet was at the end of the Garden.

aye, we used to bathe in t'frozen puddle in middle of t'road and shit in t'neighbour's allotment

puddle? you were lucky

ugo.santalucia

seanoconn said:

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

Her generation wasn't one to spend much time on the sofa... they had a small farm and there was always stuff to do. They used a wet flannel to rinse off the sweat and that was about it.
I think our generation has gone hygiene mad... I have heard of people showering multiple times a day and washing their hair every day... the skin is not designed to take all that soap.

We didn’t have a bathroom until I was 6 years old. We had a tin bath in the garden or would wash in the Belfast sink or from a plastic bowl. Outside toilet was at the end of the Garden. Wasn’t that long ago and don’t remember us being particularly poor. Even wifey raised in Communist era country can’t outdo my hardship 😎

Life in communist countries wasn't necessarily all that bad... over 600 theatres in St. Petersburg and all affordable, try to book a ticket for a show in London as a working class bod...
In Belarus you can have an abortion no problem and healthcare is free, can you say the same about many Republican states?
It was levelling down, but poverty to the extent you see in some western countries was not that common

rick_chasey

ugo.santalucia said:

seanoconn said:

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

Her generation wasn't one to spend much time on the sofa... they had a small farm and there was always stuff to do. They used a wet flannel to rinse off the sweat and that was about it.
I think our generation has gone hygiene mad... I have heard of people showering multiple times a day and washing their hair every day... the skin is not designed to take all that soap.

We didn’t have a bathroom until I was 6 years old. We had a tin bath in the garden or would wash in the Belfast sink or from a plastic bowl. Outside toilet was at the end of the Garden. Wasn’t that long ago and don’t remember us being particularly poor. Even wifey raised in Communist era country can’t outdo my hardship 😎

Life in communist countries wasn't necessarily all that bad... over 600 theatres in St. Petersburg and all affordable, try to book a ticket for a show in London as a working class bod...
In Belarus you can have an abortion no problem and healthcare is free, can you say the same about many Republican states?
It was levelling down, but poverty to the extent you see in some western countries was not that common

It was so bad, they made a board game in Poland to remind kids of how bad it was.

Called queue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolejka_(game)

focuszing723

seanoconn said:

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

Her generation wasn't one to spend much time on the sofa... they had a small farm and there was always stuff to do. They used a wet flannel to rinse off the sweat and that was about it.
I think our generation has gone hygiene mad... I have heard of people showering multiple times a day and washing their hair every day... the skin is not designed to take all that soap.

We didn’t have a bathroom until I was 6 years old. We had a tin bath in the garden or would wash in the Belfast sink or from a plastic bowl. Outside toilet was at the end of the Garden. Wasn’t that long ago and don’t remember us being particularly poor. Even wifey raised in Communist era country can’t outdo my hardship 😎

That's the key to everything, I tell thee.

If you know no better, relatively it's all dandy.

Ignorance is bliss! Now though, with this crazy connected explosion, everybody knows what they are missing.

pblakeney

focuszing723 said:

seanoconn said:

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

Her generation wasn't one to spend much time on the sofa... they had a small farm and there was always stuff to do. They used a wet flannel to rinse off the sweat and that was about it.
I think our generation has gone hygiene mad... I have heard of people showering multiple times a day and washing their hair every day... the skin is not designed to take all that soap.

We didn’t have a bathroom until I was 6 years old. We had a tin bath in the garden or would wash in the Belfast sink or from a plastic bowl. Outside toilet was at the end of the Garden. Wasn’t that long ago and don’t remember us being particularly poor. Even wifey raised in Communist era country can’t outdo my hardship 😎

That's the key to everything, I tell thee.

If you know no better, relatively it's all dandy.

Ignorance is bliss! Now though, with this crazy connected explosion, everybody knows what they are missing.

I keep hearing from visitors to 3rd world countries about how happy everyone is.
Happiness is all about perspective. Some may well have to adjust their perspective to remain happy.

ugo.santalucia

pblakeney said:

focuszing723 said:

seanoconn said:

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Shower less... or never. My granma used to bathe twice per year, I don't remember her smelling bad or anything. She made it to 91 yo

Dependent on how active you are, surely?

Her generation wasn't one to spend much time on the sofa... they had a small farm and there was always stuff to do. They used a wet flannel to rinse off the sweat and that was about it.
I think our generation has gone hygiene mad... I have heard of people showering multiple times a day and washing their hair every day... the skin is not designed to take all that soap.

We didn’t have a bathroom until I was 6 years old. We had a tin bath in the garden or would wash in the Belfast sink or from a plastic bowl. Outside toilet was at the end of the Garden. Wasn’t that long ago and don’t remember us being particularly poor. Even wifey raised in Communist era country can’t outdo my hardship 😎

That's the key to everything, I tell thee.

If you know no better, relatively it's all dandy.

Ignorance is bliss! Now though, with this crazy connected explosion, everybody knows what they are missing.

I keep hearing from visitors to 3rd world countries about how happy everyone is.
Happiness is all about perspective. Some may well have to adjust their perspective to remain happy.

True... I don't think we will be less happy, once in fuel poverty... we'll probably readjust and have fun spending less money for other stuff. I can see all those "party caterers" for kids events disappearing very rapidly, for instance... but kids won't give a monkey about it

davidof

ugo.santalucia said:

Life in communist countries wasn't necessarily all that bad... over 600 theatres in St. Petersburg and all affordable, try to book a ticket for a show in London as a working class bod...
In Belarus you can have an abortion no problem and healthcare is free, can you say the same about many Republican states?
It was levelling down, but poverty to the extent you see in some western countries was not that common

I spent quite a bit of time in the Eastern Block, Hungary, CZ, East Germany, Romania. The Romanians told me that it was the elite that got rid of Ceausecau because they had acquired lots of wealth but still had to drive round in awful eastern block cars. In East Germany there were creche and good childcare and women were treated better than they were in West Germany at the time, some people I spoke to thought joining West Germany was a bad idea and they would have been better advancing as an independent country with their own systems. But the West German government gave huge bribes for reunification. Hungary was already quite westernized even before the fall of communism.

I don't believe in communism though.