Number of spokes...

metmanmark
metmanmark Posts: 29
in Road buying advice
Morning all
Having taken advice from this forum and checked out a few options I have decided to purchase some new wheels made by a local wheel builder. They have miche hubs and kinlin rims pretty similar to the BORG31:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/road-rim-brake-wheelsets/products/borg31-all-weather-aero-wheelset-24f-28r

My logic for buying them locally (for a similar sort of price) is that (1) supporting a local business (2) if there is a problem with them down the line I can take them back and (3) I don't have to pay postage :smile:

My question is around the number of spokes. I am 90kg and do a mix of recreational cycling plus some commuting. For the latter I carry my laptop, lunch and change of clothes. I ride down B roads which aren't great quality.

My question is whether the standard 24/28 set up would be sufficiently robust or whether going for more spokes 28 front / 21 rear would be a more sensible option. I *think* the Kinlin rims (XR31) are pretty strong but thought I'd check people's views re spokes before placing the order. The spokes to be used are sapim race double butted spokes.

Thanks in advance
Mark

Comments

  • metmanmark
    metmanmark Posts: 29
    Sorry - I meant 28/32 rear
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,426
    I went for 32/32 when I was 90kgs. Better safe than sorry. How heavy is a spoke anyway? What I am fairly sure of is that you do not want 21 rear. Doubt anyone would suggest that.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support
    left the forum March 2023
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,339
    Dear Fanboys, op's not actually using cycle clinic.

    There's someone else in the UK building wheels.

    Who knew.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,426
    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • dr.maj.harrison4_Mcl5kX
    dr.maj.harrison4_Mcl5kX Posts: 2
    Thanks all for your comments. I am tempted to go for 28 at the front and 32 at the rear. Appreciate the comments.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    dr.maj.harrison4_Mcl5kX said:

    Thanks all for your comments. I am tempted to go for 28 at the front and 32 at the rear. Appreciate the comments.

    There are no drawbacks in a having a few more spokes

    left the forum March 2023
  • amrushton
    amrushton Posts: 1,312
    First.Aspect said:

    Dear Fanboys, op's not actually using cycle clinic.

    There's someone else in the UK building wheels.

    Who knew.

    there are but Malcolm does a good job and isnt shy of telling you what in his opinion is the best option for you. pays your money etc
  • metmanmark
    metmanmark Posts: 29
    Seems like getting XR31 as a 32 spoke is pretty impossible. Have been recommended the DT Swiss RR511 instead for an extra £30. I am happier with the extra spokes but had my settled on Kinlin rims... Any thoughts?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    metmanmark said:

    Seems like getting XR31 as a 32 spoke is pretty impossible. Have been recommended the DT Swiss RR511 instead for an extra £30. I am happier with the extra spokes but had my settled on Kinlin rims... Any thoughts?

    I have a pair of DT 511… I think they are better rims, in terms of quality, but. They are also marginally heavier

    left the forum March 2023
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,125
    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,426
    IIRC in LA's book when he gets to recovery training he heads to the hills with his "lightweight wheels". They were 32 spoke. A different era but still...

    Marginal gains are all well and good if racing but I opt for wheel reliability.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    A minute and a half over half an hour is massive…
    left the forum March 2023
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,426
    ugo.santalucia said:

    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    A minute and a half over half an hour is massive…
    2.5% is fairly insignificant if you are not racing. Also, winter bike v summer bike will have other differences. Horses for courses.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    A minute and a half over half an hour is massive…
    2.5% is fairly insignificant if you are not racing. Also, winter bike v summer bike will have other differences. Horses for courses.
    To give you an idea… I improved my pb on a climb in Italy by 90 seconds… that’s a 20 minute climb… I needed about 30 watts more and 3 kg less, so 90 seconds is massive.

    left the forum March 2023
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,426
    edited June 2022
    ugo.santalucia said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    davidof said:

    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Trust Malcolm advice. I would go 24/32, it’s only the rear that needs a bit more support

    Obviously not a lot of potholes in your area.
    Avoiding potholes is preferable but sometimes shithappens.
    My winter bike has 32 spokes front and rear, summer has super light climbing wheels with some minimal spoke count. I was very disappointed to discover via Strava segments that it makes very little difference timewise when climbing long hills (lets say 500V+ over half an hour it is like a minute and a half).
    A minute and a half over half an hour is massive…
    2.5% is fairly insignificant if you are not racing. Also, winter bike v summer bike will have other differences. Horses for courses.
    To give you an idea… I improved my pb on a climb in Italy by 90 seconds… that’s a 20 minute climb… I needed about 30 watts more and 3 kg less, so 90 seconds is massive.

    I am responding in the context of the OP.
    Up to them to respond but I doubt they are paying that much attention to data.

    From a personal POV I can do the Mortirolo in 1:24 virtually on my trainer. I give zero F's if it takes me 2 hours in reality next month.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,125
    edited June 2022
    pblakeney said:



    2.5% is fairly insignificant if you are not racing. Also, winter bike v summer bike will have other differences. Horses for courses.

    Winter bike is around 9.5kg (steel is reel - and heavy after all). Summer bike is perhaps under 8kg. Winter wheels are around 2.1kg / pair, summer wheels are 1450g so with just the wheels the difference would be even less.

    For me, just pottering around, 2.5% is neither here nor there but with the winter bike I've done a lot of gravel paths as well which I would hesitate to tackle with the summer bike.
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
    Instagramme
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,321
    davidof said:

    Winter wheels are around 2.1kg / pair, summer wheels are 1450g so with just the wheels the difference would be even less.

    I would expect it to be a lot less, a pair of wheels that save you 90 seconds on a climb, would fly off the shelves... the "magic wheels"

    left the forum March 2023
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,702
    ugo.santalucia said:

    davidof said:

    Winter wheels are around 2.1kg / pair, summer wheels are 1450g so with just the wheels the difference would be even less.

    I would expect it to be a lot less, a pair of wheels that save you 90 seconds on a climb, would fly off the shelves... the "magic wheels"

    650g extra on the wheelset, + the extra weight of the `winter bike`. If done in winter, + weight of extra clothing, mudguards and worse conditions. + `Winter` tyres too?
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    metmanmark said:

    Seems like getting XR31 as a 32 spoke is pretty impossible. Have been recommended the DT Swiss RR511 instead for an extra £30. I am happier with the extra spokes but had my settled on Kinlin rims... Any thoughts?

    Spa Cycles has Kinlin XR-31T and RT in 32H.

    I recently built a set (20F/24R with offset rear) for the Fred Whitton and I am very impressed by the general quality and glossy finish of the rims. I used CX-Ray spokes and the finished wheels are plenty stiff and work really well with wider tyres.

    The RR511s are nice too, but they don't have the offset option for the rear, and as previously noted, are a bit heavier, narrower and more expensive. However, you may prefer the look of DT Swiss decals to the plain black of the Kinlins.

    If I were your weight, I'd be tempted by 28F/32R on Miche Primato with CX-Rays or just go with black ACI Alpina DB spokes to save a fair bit of money over the CX-Rays.

    Here are mine with 30 mm Pirelli P Zero Race tyres.


  • davebradswmb
    davebradswmb Posts: 552
    bobones said:




    I'm pretty sure I recognise that bike from the FWC, I think we spent a lot of time swapping places.

  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    edited June 2022
    davebradswmb said:

    bobones said:




    I'm pretty sure I recognise that bike from the FWC, I think we spent a lot of time swapping places.

    Couldn't have been me as I only built that up last week. At the FWC I used those wheels on my TCR, which is usually equipped with carbon wheels.




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