23 or 25

Cjhodgy

Hi all

Just bought a 2nd BMC teammachibe and its fitted with a 28 dual use tyre.

I want to fit faster rolling road tyres. I have read various things on what's best.

But what do people think. Are 23 or 25 better for speed/rolling resistance?

MattFalle

Oooooh - opening up a huge bag of discussion.

loads and loads of different views, some say 25 some say 28, some same 23 - "scientific" marketing says all things.

I've always used 23s and find them perfect - tried 25s and moved straight back.

Ugo has mentioned that he has moved back onto 23s.

Loads of people on here vouch for 28s.

My opinion for what its worth,: 23s.

First.Aspect

25s. Or 23s. Or 28s.

Fwiw with wider rims, today's 23s feel like 25s mounted on yesterday's rims. If you see what I mean.

I use 25s, 23s don't feel much different, 28s feel like I'm riding a space hopper.

alwaystimetotorque

The type of tyre is more of a factor than the width and then as FA says the rim it's mounted on affects this as well.

27mm Challenge Strada HTLR are mega in terms of rolling fast, offering great ride quality and offering decent puncture protection. I've got them set up on a 25mm external with rim.

Geek out here if you want bicyclerollingresistance.com/

singleton

Rim width makes a big difference to how tyres sit, but also tyre sizes are not consistent.
Some 25s and the same width as some 28s.
Given the state of my local roads, and the fact that my rims are 30mm external, I use 28s.

vincesummerskRoxcBTr

Having ridden our local and fairly rough rural roads on 23, 25 and recently 28s (on a new bike) all run at about 90 psi the only real difference I can feel is that the 28s seem to absorb more of the bumps. That is using all using reasonably good quality road tyres.

First.Aspect

I use conti tyres - not sure where they sit on the scale. They are on the wider than they say they are end of things, I believe. But the 5000s aren't as wide as the 4000s were, to my eye.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

I use 23mm on front for a bit of aero drag reduction and 32mm GP5000 for a little bit of comfort, having been 81-86Kg for last year or so. I'm on the verge of going under 80Kg, so might revert to a 28mm rear soon.

First.Aspect

Attack/force set have been around for years to achieve that. They are quite good but last about 5 miles before you are down to canvass.

MattFalle

Just to add - 22mm Conti Sprinter tubs (so call it a 23mm in real life) on all bikes except one that has 21mm Tufo S3 Lites all run at a billion psi on all roads, all weathers - never had a problem.

21s and 22s feel exactly the same.

imposter2.0

Cjhodgy said:

Hi all

Just bought a 2nd BMC teammachibe and its fitted with a 28 dual use tyre.

I want to fit faster rolling road tyres. I have read various things on what's best.

But what do people think. Are 23 or 25 better for speed/rolling resistance?

Tyre compound, contact surface and pressure are probably the most important factors in speed, as opposed to width. Higher volume tyres will allow you to run a lower pressure more effectively, so in that sense a 25 will give you a higher volume with little, if any loss of speed. It's not a linear equation though.

MattFalle

Bear in mind that you may well prefer the feel of a thinner harder tyre though - I do.

No idea if there is any "performance" variation but its a personal thing.

pblakeney

vincesummerskRoxcBTr said:

Having ridden our local and fairly rough rural roads on 23, 25 and recently 28s (on a new bike) all run at about 90 psi the only real difference I can feel is that the 28s seem to absorb more of the bumps. That is using all using reasonably good quality road tyres.

I thought one of the main advantages of fatter tyres was the option to lower pressures. This will be where the main gains will be felt in comfort.
I'm fairly sure no recreational cyclist would notice a speed difference.

zest28

For non-racing, stick to 28. It offers a much better riding experience.

If it is for racing, 25 > 23 imo.

seanoconn

23 & 25 pumped to the max are best for rattling your teeth out. For anything else, 28’s or above.

focuszing723

So we started by testing 20, 23 and 25 mm tires (same tire model). What was different from previous tests is that we tested on real roads, with a rider on the bike. This meant that we were looking at the entire system, not just the tire itself. And the results were surprising.

The 20 mm were slowest, and the 25 mm fastest, with the 23 mm in the middle. This wasn’t what we expected! And yet, when we repeated our tests with a different methodology (power meter vs. roll-down), the results remained the same. There was no doubt that the narrowest tires were slower than slightly wider ones.

We showed our results to the tech people of a few pro teams. They did their own testing that confirmed our results, and soon pro racers moved from 23 to 25 mm tires.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/

Worth a read of people who have tested various size tyres.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

But what outer rim width were the wheels used in the test?

MattFalle

And the type of wheel bearings used?

Atmosperic (sic) changes in pressures when tires pumped up?

Unwilling bias?

#variables

MattFalle

If it helps, i've just ordered some more S3 Lites tubs in a 21mm variety for the climbing bike and intend to run them at a billion psi.

focuszing723

I raise your whataboutery, with a, talk to the hand, because the face don't want to hear it.

First.Aspect

What makes everyone think that there's one answer for glass smooth Mallorcan tarmac as well as Scottish unclassified old military roads? Or for all riders or even all frames? You all see the irony of stiffening the hell out of a frame and then running on wide tyres to get the ride quality back that you just lost, right?

Besides, the "answer" is easy to find if you actually want to find it. That is, you take a range of tyre widths and run each at a range of pressures and then you learn what the lowest rolling resistance and optimal pressure is for each, under the highly realistic resting protocol in question. This isn't rocket science, but the scope for endless fun gcn YouTube videos diminishes greatly once you know the answer.

MattFalle

First.Aspect said:

What makes everyone think that there's one answer for glass smooth Mallorcan tarmac as well as Scottish unclassified old military roads? Or for all riders or even all frames? You all see the irony of stiffening the hell out of a frame and then running on wide tyres to get the ride quality back that you just lost, right?

Besides, the "answer" is easy to find if you actually want to find it. That is, you take a range of tyre widths and run each at a range of pressures and then you learn what the lowest rolling resistance and optimal pressure is for each, under the highly realistic resting protocol in question. This isn't rocket science, but the scope for endless fun gcn YouTube videos diminishes greatly once you know the answer.

Because they deep throat the lifestyle/marketing.

Its how electronic shifting
disc brakes and gravel bikes became the sudden need, need, need life will end without it.

me-109

Life will end with it.
What I want to know is, have I extended it by getting a gravel bike (two for week or two) and having disc brakes?
If average life expectancy round here is 70, but 80 in Devon, do I get another 10 years if I relocate at 69?

MattFalle

me-109 said:

Life will end with it.
What I want to know is, have I extended it by getting a gravel bike (two for week or two) and having disc brakes?
If average life expectancy round here is 70, but 80 in Devon, do I get another 10 years if I relocate at 69?

No. All you've done, I'm afraid, is make yorself a skint fashion victim.

Sorry.

You can regain your self worth buy selling it all and buying that utterly beautiful Colnago thats been on sale on here for too long.

rick_chasey

Quite a few pros ride such wide rims they’re on 28s.

Won’t see a 23 in the peloton anymore. 25 pretty standard

me-109

MattFalle said:

No. All you've done, I'm afraid, is make yorself a skint fashion victim.

Sorry.

You can regain your self worth buy selling it all and buying that utterly beautiful Colnago thats been on sale on here for too long.

Indeed that's a lovely thing, but need a polished alloy Italian groupset to my mind. Reminds me of the one that one of my clubbie mates got from some RTA insurance money back when I was a junior. Same colour. Quill stem in those days IIRC. It would probably fit too, but would dent the savings. The carbon gravel bike cost about 500 quid after flipping the alloy one it replaced. It serves as the wet/winter/dodgy-weather bike as well as seeing real off-road action, so is pretty good value.

DeVlaeminck

I'd go for 25s only because if it's been running 28s the rim is probably suitable for them and they are that tiny bit smoother.

rick_chasey said:

Quite a few pros ride such wide rims they’re on 28s.

Won’t see a 23 in the peloton anymore. 25 pretty standard

Pros on 28s in non cobbled stages?

rick_chasey

Yeah MvdP and the whole team rode 28mms in Flanders, 30mm in Roubaix. Pretty sure he was on 28s when he did the Tour of Britain too

WvA rides 26mms usually (so 25s) - most ride 25/26 tbf

MattFalle

Loads went back to 23s recently as well, MvdP amongst them

rick_chasey

MattFalle said:

Loads went back to 23s recently as well, MvdP amongst them

I’d be surprised as the wheels they’re riding are too wide for 23s

MattFalle

Lots of things happen that surprise you Rick. Its a pretty common occurence.

23s seem to fit on loads of modern wheels, bizarrely.