Plumbing question

TheBigBean

This forum seems to have a wide range of expertise, so I was wondering if anyone knows whether the handles on ball valves such as the one in the picture are all the same size fitting? I have the valve installed and would like to add a handle for ease. It doesn't seem possible to buy just a handle, so I would need to buy a new valve and take it off, but that only works if it will fit.

pblakeney

Probably, possibly, no guarantees.
Take a photo on your phone and a tape measure/rule with you.
Width, screw diameter, and locking cl to bend and folded length sizes should do.

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

Probably, possibly, no guarantees.
Take a photo on your phone and a tape measure/rule with you.
Width, screw diameter, and locking cl to bend and folded length sizes should do.

I'd be cheeky, take the nut (if you have one) and a spanner with me, and ask if I can see if it fits one of the ones in the shop. Or I might just take a chance with ebay, and buy one with a spare handle, and hope it fits, having looked as closely as possible at photos.

I hate plumbing, as I normally end up one washer (or similar) short, and end up driving back to the plumbing place to spend 10p on said washer.

monkimark

What do you currently have installed? Is it an isolation valve with the flathead screwdriver slot or an handle one where the handle is broken?

TheBigBean

Unfortunately, I don't have the nut for the handle either (nor a collection which I could use to determine the size of the thread). The ones I saw in a shop were all bagged which makes it a bit harder.

I guess I could measure the one attached to the valve by trying lots of fixed sized wrenches to see which works. If it fits that that is half the problem solved.

I'm not very good at this sort of thing!

TheBigBean

Ebay was a good idea. This listing confirms that they are not all the same size.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114628244574

And also confirms that I need to find the size of the thread and the size of the nut.

So, any ideas how to measure the thread size?

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

Ebay was a good idea. This listing confirms that they are not all the same size.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114628244574

And also confirms that I need to find the size of the thread and the size of the nut.

So, any ideas how to measure the thread size?

Threads for that sort of thing are likely to be standard for the size of nut. Otherwise the manufacturer would have to get their own bespoke nuts made up. Can you stretch to just ordering one of each.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

Ebay was a good idea. This listing confirms that they are not all the same size.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114628244574

And also confirms that I need to find the size of the thread and the size of the nut.

So, any ideas how to measure the thread size?

Threads for that sort of thing are likely to be standard for the size of nut. Otherwise the manufacturer would have to get their own bespoke nuts made up. Can you stretch to just ordering one of each.

This bit from the listing implied otherwise. Still, I think I have a plan now so thanks everyone. Measure the valve by trying different wrenches. Order handle. See if it comes with a nut that fits the thread. If not, either buy a collection of nuts or "invest" in a measuring thing on the basis that amassing tools is what life is about - I have a crimper and compression tool for coax which I used once, but was still cheaper than paying someone else to do it.

*** Sometimes*** we may send a nut with them but they may not screw onto your valve as many have different threads ***

TheBigBean

monkimark said:

What do you currently have installed? Is it an isolation valve with the flathead screwdriver slot or an handle one where the handle is broken?

Handle one with no handle - so it looks like it can just be turned with a wrench. No idea why it doesn't have a handle. The other five in the same place have handles.

I guess taking the handle off another one and trying it out would be another solution for finding a nut to take to a shop, but they are all a bit inaccessible with a high risk of dropping the nut somewhere I can't reach it.

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

monkimark said:

What do you currently have installed? Is it an isolation valve with the flathead screwdriver slot or an handle one where the handle is broken?

Handle one with no handle - so it looks like it can just be turned with a wrench. No idea why it doesn't have a handle. The other five in the same place have handles.

I guess taking the handle off another one and trying it out would be another solution for finding a nut to take to a shop, but they are all a bit inaccessible with a high risk of dropping the nut somewhere I can't reach it.

Hey, you can't go stealing my tricks!! The trouble with plumbing is you can get properly screwed if you get it wrong, and you can't isolate the bit you just got wrong. You always need a Plan B. Well, a Plan A would be a start...

monkimark

There are sometimes different thread pitches for the same nut size but you'd be unlucky to have a non standard one on an isolation valve.
I'd just buy a bag of nuts of various sizes, it'll come in useful at some point.

rjsterry

monkimark said:

There are sometimes different thread pitches for the same nut size but you'd be unlucky to have a non standard one on an isolation valve.
I'd just buy a bag of nuts of various sizes, it'll come in useful at some point.

I mean what kind of civilised human being doesn't have a box of odd screws, washers and mismatched nuts and bolts - oh, and half a dozen IKEA Allen keys?

TheBigBean

monkimark said:

There are sometimes different thread pitches for the same nut size but you'd be unlucky to have a non standard one on an isolation valve.
I'd just buy a bag of nuts of various sizes, it'll come in useful at some point.

This very much sounds like the solution.

I was struggling for a nut/bolt combo for toe clips the other day (yes, I know, no one has used them since Kelly) and thought having a collection of nuts and bolts would be useful. I managed to find a rusty couple in my bike remains bag though I doubt that will help here.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

monkimark said:

There are sometimes different thread pitches for the same nut size but you'd be unlucky to have a non standard one on an isolation valve.
I'd just buy a bag of nuts of various sizes, it'll come in useful at some point.

I mean what kind of civilised human being doesn't have a box of odd screws, washers and mismatched nuts and bolts - oh, and half a dozen IKEA Allen keys?

If you don't know by now that I fail the civilised human test, then what can I say? I do have a complete set of allen keys though because they are useful for bikes.

monkimark

I also have a credit card sized metal thingy for measuring nuts, bolts and thread pitches. I don't think I have ever been able to find it when required...

diplodicus

Do you know what the valve turns off?
There are certain things that for safety reasons shouldn't have a valve, but for practical reasons it is useful to have one, (combined vent and feed on a heating system is one example)
Some plumbers in these instances put a valve there and remove handle to stop it being accidently turned off and cause a safety issue

briantrumpet

monkimark said:

I also have a credit card sized metal thingy for measuring nuts, bolts and thread pitches. I don't think I have ever been able to find it when required...

It'll be along with the useful little tool to stop the things that hold chainrings together from twizzling round when you turn the allen key on the outside.

TheBigBean

diplodicus said:

Do you know what the valve turns off?
There are certain things that for safety reasons shouldn't have a valve, but for practical reasons it is useful to have one, (combined vent and feed on a heating system is one example)
Some plumbers in these instances put a valve there and remove handle to stop it being accidently turned off and cause a safety issue

One cold water inflow, so I do need to be able to turn it off, I think.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

monkimark said:

I also have a credit card sized metal thingy for measuring nuts, bolts and thread pitches. I don't think I have ever been able to find it when required...

It'll be along with the useful little tool to stop the things that hold chainrings together from twizzling round when you turn the allen key on the outside.

Without doubt one of the worst 'standard' fixings. Why on earth they don't just machine the holes in the chainring with flats so that the 'nut' can't rotate I don't know. As annoying as something that comes with a mixture of Phillips and slotted screws in the same assembly.

rjsterry

...

diplodicus

TheBigBean said:

diplodicus said:

Do you know what the valve turns off?
There are certain things that for safety reasons shouldn't have a valve, but for practical reasons it is useful to have one, (combined vent and feed on a heating system is one example)
Some plumbers in these instances put a valve there and remove handle to stop it being accidently turned off and cause a safety issue

One cold water inflow, so I do need to be able to turn it off, I think.

Ok cool, carry on then

briantrumpet

diplodicus said:

TheBigBean said:

diplodicus said:

Do you know what the valve turns off?
There are certain things that for safety reasons shouldn't have a valve, but for practical reasons it is useful to have one, (combined vent and feed on a heating system is one example)
Some plumbers in these instances put a valve there and remove handle to stop it being accidently turned off and cause a safety issue

One cold water inflow, so I do need to be able to turn it off, I think.

Ok cool, carry on then

It controls TBB's water feature, by the sound of it.

monkimark

Oh, I know exactly where it is now, because I have no use for it currently.

briantrumpet said:

monkimark said:

I also have a credit card sized metal thingy for measuring nuts, bolts and thread pitches. I don't think I have ever been able to find it when required...

It'll be along with the useful little tool to stop the things that hold chainrings together from twizzling round when you turn the allen key on the outside.

briantrumpet

I actually bought myself a small, dedicated tool bag for bike bits like this. Now I just have to train myself to always return tools straight into it. I do like my dedicated set of proper allen keys on their own rack - much better than the ones on a bike tool.

But I think we might be digressing from plumbing...

mully79

i'd take a punt on either buying just the handle or a similar valve and swapping the handle over. I give you a 98% chance of getting it right.

Defblade

TheBigBean said:

monkimark said:

There are sometimes different thread pitches for the same nut size but you'd be unlucky to have a non standard one on an isolation valve.
I'd just buy a bag of nuts of various sizes, it'll come in useful at some point.

This very much sounds like the solution.

I was struggling for a nut/bolt combo for toe clips the other day (yes, I know, no one has used them since Kelly) and thought having a collection of nuts and bolts would be useful. I managed to find a rusty couple in my bike remains bag though I doubt that will help here.

Many moons ago (like maybe 25 years), I wondered into a hardware/fixings place and asked about mixed bags. I ended up walking out with a heavy bag of their sweepings for something like £20 (ok, I guess that was more then). Spent an evening with a big sheet of newspaper in front of the telly sorting out screw, bolts, nuts etc (and trying to pair up the nuts and bolts (and don't try and tell me they're "set screws" or "machine screws" or anything. They are bolts, and nuts go on 'em!)) from the dust, paperclips and censored ends. I think I did it again a year or so later... and I'm still using the same tubs of stuff now. I can find you a nut for pretty much any bolt you care to hand me

TheBigBean

I finally got around to measuring the nut in question (14mm) and have now discovered it doesn't work how I thought. The nut in the picture simply unscrews.

So back to square one. Anyone know how to turn it off?

TheBigBean

And for the avoidance of doubt, that big yellow handle is on another pipe.

masjer

The 14mm nut isn't used for operating the valve. Just turn the central threaded part 90 degrees and it should shut off. Is there a flat section on the threaded part? If so, a small spanner (or worse a small adjustable) or even pliers should do.

oxoman

To turn the valve off put a small adjustable spanner across the to flats on the threaded portion and turn so the flats are at 90 degrees to the direction of the pipe. I.e the flats when in the direction of pipe is on and when across is off. Basically it's what we call a quarter turn valve. Hope this helps.

veronese68

What Oxo said, make sure it's a good adjustable so you don't round it off.