Top 20 Earners in the Pro Peloton Revealed.

RichN95.

m.r.m. said:

Maybe the competition was just lighter in those specific races in Italy. He never was a tier 1 rider. All his wins come from some type of lack of competition.

I think Marc Madiot not going to races outside France helps

davidof

m.r.m. said:

Maybe the competition was just lighter in those specific races in Italy. He never was a tier 1 rider. All his wins come from some type of lack of competition.

his lombardia was a good win, but that is ancient history now
he's not really won much else of significance.

andyp

m.r.m. said:

Maybe the competition was just lighter in those specific races in Italy. He never was a tier 1 rider. All his wins come from some type of lack of competition.

People forget the 2019 Tour so quickly. He won the Tourmalet summit finish handsomely, and was looking the strongest rider in the race going into the Alps.

ddraver

The problem has never been in his legs though has it. It's upstairs...

hanshotfirst

m.r.m. said:

Maybe the competition was just lighter in those specific races in Italy. He never was a tier 1 rider. All his wins come from some type of lack of competition.

He looked the real deal in 2019 before whatever the hell it was he did to his leg... but yeah, I'm saying this as a fan boy. 2019 was now or never so it'll turn out to be never. And his palmares prove you to be quite right.

phreak

ddraver said:

The problem has never been in his legs though has it. It's upstairs...

He's abandoned as many GTs as he's finished, which is perhaps not a great stat.

ddraver

It was the Dolphin that Roglic gifted to him but which he still managed to lose that did it for me...

RichN95.

Since he finished on the Tour podium in 2014, Pinot has finished less than half the Grand Tours he has started (5 of 11)

He's just not very robust

orraloon

RichN95. said:

Since he finished on the Tour podium in 2014, Pinot has finished less than half the Grand Tours he has started (5 of 11)

He's just not very robust

So more goats than GOAT?

No_Ta_Doctor

orraloon said:

RichN95. said:

Since he finished on the Tour podium in 2014, Pinot has finished less than half the Grand Tours he has started (5 of 11)

He's just not very robust

So more goats than GOAT?

He's not a kid anymore

m.r.m.

andyp said:

m.r.m. said:

Maybe the competition was just lighter in those specific races in Italy. He never was a tier 1 rider. All his wins come from some type of lack of competition.

People forget the 2019 Tour so quickly. He won the Tourmalet summit finish handsomely, and was looking the strongest rider in the race going into the Alps.

Very fair point, but GT's are sometimes also a bit of a special case as otherwise rather semi-remarkable riders are able to pull off the occasional stage win when the top dogs look at each other or have an off day.
Winning a Tour stage comes with extraordinary prestige, but I personally don't value stage wins very highly because they mostly tend to happen in the context of the entire stage race and there are some stages that are fantastic wins and others that are up for grabs to be taken by anyone. The differentiation is super specific to each stage and can't really be generalized.

m.r.m.

ddraver said:

The problem has never been in his legs though has it. It's upstairs...

It's also his technical ability outside of his VO2 max. He can be bullied on every downhill. His descending isn't awful, but quite sub par for a professional.

Jtomesgreen

m.r.m. said:

Maybe the competition was just lighter in those specific races in Italy. He never was a tier 1 rider. All his wins come from some type of lack of competition.

Have never heard of a monument win being described as lack of competition before

m.r.m.

Jtomesgreen said:

m.r.m. said:

Maybe the competition was just lighter in those specific races in Italy. He never was a tier 1 rider. All his wins come from some type of lack of competition.

Have never heard of a monument win being described as lack of competition before

The context was that while you can only beat the guys competing that day, not everyone is always there competing at every given race. That goes for monuments too.
I'll also play ball with that statement directly and raise you with:

Results Liège-Bastogne-Liège
1. Wout Poels (nld)
2. Michael Albasini (swi) s.t.
3. Rui Costa (por) s.t.
4. Samuel Sánchez (spa) s.t.
5. Ilnur Zakarin (rus) + 0.04
6. Warren Barguil (fra) + 0.11
7. Roman Kreuziger (cze) + 0.12
8. Joaquim Rodriguez (spa) s.t.
9. Bauke Mollema (nld) s.t.
10. Diego Rosa (ita) s.t.

kingstongraham

That was 2016 and the winners from 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2019 were in the field that day.

shirley_basso

Pinot beat nibali by 30s who's no wimp.

m.r.m.

kingstongraham said:

That was 2016 and the winners from 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2019 were in the field that day.

I saw the race. There are always some level of former winners in every race. That doesn't really mean anything on it's own.

RichN95.

Pinot's results in Italy have been decent

Lombardia we have covered. His Tour of the Alps win was ahead of Pozzovivo, Lopez and Froome. His Milano-Turino win ahead of Lopez and Valverde. He was one day away from joining Froome & Dumoulin on the Giro podium

All of these happened in one year, 2018, when he got away from France. Imagine what he might have done riding for a non-French team doing mostly non-French races.

The only A-list French ride of the 21st century rides for a Belgian team. My advice to any hot French junior would be to join a foreign team.

French cycling is a mess. But every so often the MPCC will pop up and blame it on TUEs/ketones/power meters etc. And the ASO will continue to indulge any half decent team.

What French cycling needs is to get the 'specialists in failure' that have been running French teams for 25 years and find a Brailsford type to build a super team with internal competition and no complacency. I suggest LVMH as a sponsor.

m.r.m.

shirley_basso said:

Pinot beat nibali by 30s who's no wimp.

Nibali can be amazing, but tends to run hot and cold. He is hardly the epitome of consistency.
The overall point isn't that Pinot sucks. I never said that. Pinot isn't top tier. Hence his wins come from when other top tier riders are not present or not in form (otherwise he would consistently win more). I'm certain an occasional exception can be found to this, but you'll really have to rack your brain for it.

If every monument win is always stellar and there is no distinction between the wins or the winners does the same apply for GT's as well? Then I raise you to this as well. 😉

Vuelta 2013 GC
1. Chris Horner
2. Vincenzo Nibali
3. Alejandro Valverde
4. Joaquim Rodríguez
5. Nicolas Roche
6. Domenico Pozzovivo
7. Thibaut Pinot
8. Samuel Sánchez
9. Leopold König
10. Daniel Moreno

Horner did manage 2nd on GC prior to the Vuelta in the Tour of Utah. So winning the Vuelta makes him tier 1 as well like some seem to feel about Pinot? He did beat Nibali, Valverde, Rodriguez and Pinot after all. Then again if Nico Roche comes fifth on GC, maybe the overall competition isn't all that.

RichN95.

m.r.m. said:

Nibali can be amazing, but tends to run hot and cold. He is hardly the epitome of consistency.

Nibali in Italy tends to be hot though. The cold is for abroad.

m.r.m.

Genuine question, has he ever won a GT that Contador or Froome finished in form (and by that I basically just mean Froome in Sky guise and not back in the Barloworld days)?

RichN95.

m.r.m. said:

Genuine question, has he ever won a GT that Contador or Froome finished in form (and by that I basically just mean Froome in Sky guise and not back in the Barloworld days)?

Pre Froome's crash*, the only race of any kind that Nibali won and either Contador or Froome also finished (in any form) was the 2013 Tirreno-Adriatico (where they were both on the podium).

*He later won the Tour of Sicily last year, which Froome finished

m.r.m.

I remember the 2013 TA. Froome did his super spin seated attacks and only Contador could follow. They both dropped Nibali and the others, but their stop start basically allowed Nibali and the others (Talansky maybe?!) to keep coming back and to essentially steal GC later. Don't remember which stage it was on though.
Was a good race though. Part of the advent of Froome.

RichN95.

m.r.m. said:

I remember the 2013 TA. Froome did his super spin seated attacks and only Contador could follow. They both dropped Nibali and the others, but their stop start basically allowed Nibali and the others (Talansky maybe?!) to keep coming back and to essentially steal GC later. Don't remember which stage it was on though.
Was a good race though. Part of the advent of Froome.

There was a ridiculous climb. 30% I think. Local knowledge played a part as the roadbook didn't really show that. So they had the proper gearing. Nibali escaped with Sagan and the king of the silly slopes, Rodriguez, and Sanchez.

It's worth another watch

https://youtu.be/IuZ2im34UOk?t=2050

kingstongraham

m.r.m. said:

kingstongraham said:

That was 2016 and the winners from 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2019 were in the field that day.

I saw the race. There are always some level of former winners in every race. That doesn't really mean anything on it's own.

Was a hell of a hard race in rain and snow. Wore all teams down so nobody had any support, so there was no organised chase of the last attack.

Those former and future winners were not taking it easy.

yorkshireraw

RichN95. said:

m.r.m. said:

Nibali can be amazing, but tends to run hot and cold. He is hardly the epitome of consistency.

Nibali in Italy tends to be hot though. The cold is for abroad.

In 2018 Nibali was taken out on the Alpe in the tour and had a (suspected - not sure if it was ever confirmed?) fractured vertebrae. His 2nd at Lombardy was pretty good in the circs.

daniel_b

hanshotfirst said:

m.r.m. said:

Maybe the competition was just lighter in those specific races in Italy. He never was a tier 1 rider. All his wins come from some type of lack of competition.

He looked the real deal in 2019 before whatever the hell it was he did to his leg... but yeah, I'm saying this as a fan boy. 2019 was now or never so it'll turn out to be never. And his palmares prove you to be quite right.

Not a fan of any specific rider, just a fan of cycling, and he looked so strong for that Tourmalet win.
Such a shame it went pear shaped, was looking to be a phenomenal battle.
I was hoping he would get back to that kind of form, but it seems unlikely now.
I hope to be wrong.

RichN95.

I have abandoned a couple of years of optimism and accepted that Chris Froome is, for all intents and purposes, retired from competitive cycling.

Pross

RichN95. said:

I have abandoned a couple of years of optimism and accepted that Chris Froome is, for all intents and purposes, retired from competitive cycling.

That's half-hearted, you need to go full Jammiedodger and start a thread about it so we can all flame you when he comes back and wins all 3 GTs in a season.

TheBigBean

RichN95. said:

I have abandoned a couple of years of optimism and accepted that Chris Froome is, for all intents and purposes, retired from competitive cycling.

Do you think it is mind or body?