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Campagnolo 10 speed cassette chain clearance very tight in dropout?

scooterbscooterb Posts: 89
in Workshop
Hi all , Just trying to set up an older 10 speed Campag group set on my new build frame but the chain is extremely close to the inside of the rear drop out when its in the smallest ring?
My set up is 10s record group -
10s record chain
10s 11-25t record cassette (all the spacers are in the correct order)
Campag 10/11s speed free hub

The wheel set is Sram Al 30 that originally had a 10s Shimano freehub fitted , I done some research & found that I could fit a Campag 10/11 freehub , exactly the same fitting , all I had to do was shim about 0.5mm from the diameter of the end cap so that it slid inside the free hub when screwing up to tighten ( the newer Campag free hub internal diameter was a fraction smaller than the Shimano freehub ) so this all fits well and is as normal as it was with the Shimano freehub.

I’ve had the verniers out and the axle is fine , it measures a fraction just over 130mm but it’s only just protruding beyond the cassette lock ring .

I can’t understand why this 10s Campag is so tight fitting w compared to Shimano 10 & 11 which I tried as a comparison ?
Anyway here’s some pictures

10s record chain & 10s record cassette




Shimano 10s cassette , freehub & chain


Shimano 11s cassette , freehub & chain


Campag 10s










Posts

  • scooterbscooterb Posts: 89
    Sooty about the pics , they seem to of flipped round ? but hope you can see what I mean .
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,709
    Cassette properly torqued up?
    Correct cassette nut?
    Axle seated properly in dropout?

    Stumped after that.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mercia_manmercia_man Posts: 1,431
    edited February 2022
    I had the same issue on my Campag equipped steel touring bike when I switched from seven to nine speeds. I filed a chamfer in the bottom of the seat stay which gave me just enough clearance for the chain to go round without fouling. I got the idea after reading that custom frame builders sometimes used chamfered stays. It’s lasted me 20 years so I don’t think I ruined my frame. I only have a whisker of clearance but it works fine. As long as your chain is not rubbing your frame, you should be OK.
  • scooterbscooterb Posts: 89
    Ok thanks , For getting back .
    Yes the Lock ring is correct Campag and tightened torqued up correctly , the axle is seated nicely .
    I even tried another wheel with anothe 10s Campag cassette and had the same issue ? The cassette is wider than a 10 & 11s Shimano .
    Would I be right in thinking that because the wheel (s) originally had Shimano freehubs fitted as standard , that the actual hub is slightly wider than a hub fitted with Campag ? So if you imagine that the freehub is a couple of mm inwards toward the spokes thus giving a bit more of the axle protruding ?
    It’s the only thing I can think of , otherwise I’m also stumped !!
  • scooterbscooterb Posts: 89
    I mean they are both 130mm but the Campag freehub (on a Campag wheel) is seated inward a couple of mm ?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,709
    edited February 2022
    Here's how a Campagnolo 11 speed cassette looks when fitted. (Flipped upside down)
    The axle clearly protrudes well past the nut.


    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,709
    edited February 2022
    Just had another thought. When I first bought these hubs the wheel builder put on a Shimano freewheel by accident. Not only did he have to replace the freewheel but he had to rebuild the wheel as Shimano and Campagnolo are dished differently.
    This would just mean your rim being offset though.
    Also, Campagnolo do not use a washer at the back. I've read Shimano does.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • scooterbscooterb Posts: 89
    Thanks for showing this ,
    So yeah , that’s kind of what I meant , that a Campag hub would be dished slightly diffent , so the drive side would be more inward to allow for the wider freehub .
    I tried to search this but couldn’t find anything yet ,
    It must be the reason surely ? There can’t be anything else to cause it ?
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,709
    edited February 2022
    Nope. The hub width is the hub width. Dishing simply centres the rim. The dishing allows for the freewheel being different and/or the washer. I think. It is just what was said in the shop. I am no wheel builder.
    That said, your axle should protrude as in the photo above.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • scooterbscooterb Posts: 89
    Understood and yes that is all correct , when you say hub width is hub with do you mean axle length is axle length @ 130mm ?
    And dishing will centralise the rim yep.
    But let’s say as an exaggeration the Campag freehub body is 10 longer than a Shimano one.
    So you if start from the driveside lip of axle (the bit that sits up against the drop out ).
    In order to fit that longer freehub and keep the axle length the same then the drive side hub flange (where the spokes sit) would need to be positioned 10mm closer toward the centre line of the hub?
    Brain damage 😄
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 24,709
    I'd be confused too. The distance was 3mm IIRC but I am no expert.
    130mm is end of axle to end of axle (dropout to dropout) regardless of freewheel.
    Bottom line, the axle should protrude the 2-3mm past the nut as above.
    If it does then you will have clearance to the dropout.
    Check your dimensions to this...


    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
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