What do you look for when planning a new route?

larue.brent

Hi all,

A friend of mine built a running route planning app as a side project just for fun (Trail Router). Tons of people replied to the thread asking for a cycling version (See here and here). We're currently working on it.

We need more input from road cyclists what you look for when planning a new route. Any and all info you can provide is appreciated. Please let me know!!

I'll be giving updates and prototype demos too if you want to subscribe here - SVPER cycling.

PS: I hope this doesn't violate any advertising/self-promotion terms. This isn't for profit, it's just a fun side project that cyclists were asking us to build.

pblakeney

1. Avoid main roads.
2. Gradients.
3. See Rule 1 and repeat.

larue.brent

pblakeney said:

1. Avoid main roads.
2. Gradients.
3. See Rule 1 and repeat.

1. What do you consider a main road? Presumably, highways, highly trafficked ones and high speed limits. Am I missing anything?
2. Can you elaborate? Are you seeking or avoiding steep grades? Are there gradients you would never ride?

pblakeney

1. That's about right.
2. Advanced knowledge so you know what gradients to expect. Sometimes you want flat, sometimes you want climbs. No single answer but knowing what to expect is crucial.

larue.brent

pblakeney said:

1. That's about right.
2. Advanced knowledge so you know what gradients to expect. Sometimes you want flat, sometimes you want climbs. No single answer but knowing what to expect is crucial.

Great, thanks! 💯

shirley_basso

Quiet roads with good quality tarmac is key. Then some will prefer pristine tarmac over a quiet route.

I imagine some sort of plug-in with Waze / Google Maps could even give you a time of day that roads are less busy if you have to go down an A road. Plus some A roads are really quiet, and some B roads are mega busy.

larue.brent

shirley_basso said:

Quiet roads with good quality tarmac is key. Then some will prefer pristine tarmac over a quiet route.

I imagine some sort of plug-in with Waze / Google Maps could even give you a time of day that roads are less busy if you have to go down an A road. Plus some A roads are really quiet, and some B roads are mega busy.

When you say quiet, do you mean little and/or slow traffic? Or do you mean literally like not making much noise? We could penalize routes that run parallel to highways for example.

Cool idea for live traffic info. Is that something you do with any of your routes today? Or is it something additional you wish you could do?

Charlie_Croker

A choice of using a cycle track/path or road on certain sections, not the whole route would be useful.

If your wanting to make as much progress as possible (distance) some so called cycletracks are that badly designed with chicanes and give ways there not worth using, others are fine

larue.brent

Charlie_Croker said:

A choice of using a cycle track/path or road on certain sections, not the whole route would be useful.

If your wanting to make as much progress as possible (distance) some so called cycletracks are that badly designed with chicanes and give ways there not worth using, others are fine

Thanks @Charlie_Croker!

Is your feedback based on road cycling or MTB?

If road cycling, is that often a goal of yours when riding, to see how far (distance) you can go in a single ride?

Charlie_Croker

I had in mind road cycling. Let me try and explain a little better what I meant.

Some councils (like my own) have put into place some ‘cycling infrastructure’ in order to meet there/Gov targets, very often it’s just a tick box exercise for them. On paper there’s a section of road/pavement, let’s say 1 mile long that has some paint applied to its surface saying ‘cycle lane’ (this maybe on the road or the path or both). That 1 mile adds to there total 'cycling infrastructure' improvements for the year.
Trouble is when this cycle lane crosses a road junction it often swerves left and right then you’re supposed to give way to traffic using that road before proceeding. This is repeated over and over again. Whereas if you were to cycle on the road you would not have to swerve at each intersection and you would not have to give way, you have the same rights as any other vehicle using that road. So its quicker to use the road, enabling you to cover more distance in any given time. This type of cycling infrastructure wastes everybody’s time and is also dangerous
That’s what I mean by ‘wanting to make as much progress as possible’

Examples






A couple of local examples, the paths (on the lefthand side of the road) are shared cycleways and here you can see the chicanes. The top one is in a 50mph limit. The bottom one has a shared path that is less than 1 yard wide (other side of the road) plus you can't see what colour the traffic lights are on, both the chicanes mean you are out-of-sight of traffic on the main carriageway when you cross – I use neither of these and prefer to use the road as I feel its safer.

This sort of thing is much better:



I realize it’s a very tricky thing to include on a section by section basis rather than in options/settings, but it would be helpful especially if planning a route for others to use.


One other point that has come to mind for route planning. I've been led astray by google maps with cycle routing, I no longer use it for this. But it has a nasty habit of routing you down private drives/roads or land. So routing along roads and public rights of way is essential to stay within the law

larue.brent

Wow, @Charlie_Croker, this was really great, thanks for the explanation 💯 It's very helpful. We'll look into this further and see what's possible.

shirley_basso

larue.brent said:

shirley_basso said:

Quiet roads with good quality tarmac is key. Then some will prefer pristine tarmac over a quiet route.

I imagine some sort of plug-in with Waze / Google Maps could even give you a time of day that roads are less busy if you have to go down an A road. Plus some A roads are really quiet, and some B roads are mega busy.

When you say quiet, do you mean little and/or slow traffic? Or do you mean literally like not making much noise? We could penalize routes that run parallel to highways for example.

Cool idea for live traffic info. Is that something you do with any of your routes today? Or is it something additional you wish you could do?

Quiet as in low traffic - but a route next to a motorway wouldn't be much fun either!
I don't do any live traffic (or estimates) but certainly something worth considering - something I wish I could do as it may help take shortcuts / avoid busy roads at peak times.

larue.brent

@shirley_basso Thanks for clarifying!

joeyhalloran

One 'feature' I have sometimes found I wanted but I don't think anyone is currently doing is for me to put points A and points B in and 'flex' how direct a route it provides. If I am doing a multi day tour, or just meeting my family and a cafe the start and end points are fixed but sometimes I want to ride further than the most direct route. With current routing software I need to choose how and where to make it longer and sometimes I just want easy.

monkimark

I've stopped doing much road based route planning as I rarely ride on the road other than commuting and when I do, it's usually on local roads that I know reasonably well.

There are a couple of motorbike route planners (and I think GPS units) that have a 'twisty roads' feature. As i understand it, you just plug in a start and end location and then click the 'make it fun' option.

Something simple like that would be most useful for me so that it could be done quickly without too much work/input from me - when I've done it manually recently I tend to use the Strava heatmaps as a starting point to find popular routes but then you have to go and remove the commuting type roads that loads of people ride down because they are a direct route somewhere but nobody would ever ride for fun.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

One feature I've yet to find on a bike route planner is...

Suggest routes that link up specific climbs you highlight on the map.

pblakeney

N0bodyOfTheGoat said:

One feature I've yet to find on a bike route planner is...

Suggest routes that link up specific climbs you highlight on the map.

Quite simple. Select start point and start of climb. Planner will show you the route based on heat maps. Decide/guess if they are appropriate or commuter and adjust to suit. One at a time building the route up as you go. Done it many times.

monkimark

Doesn't the strava route planner (and ridewithgps) let you select multiple points on a route? So you just select your start points and then go through selecting the bottom and top of the climbs along the way.
Or do you want it to put them in order for you based on the route?

joeyhalloran

Komoot lets you select hills/points and routes between them. In fact I've never used any routing software that doesn't let you do this?

larue.brent

joeyhalloran said:

One 'feature' I have sometimes found I wanted but I don't think anyone is currently doing is for me to put points A and points B in and 'flex' how direct a route it provides. If I am doing a multi day tour, or just meeting my family and a cafe the start and end points are fixed but sometimes I want to ride further than the most direct route. With current routing software I need to choose how and where to make it longer and sometimes I just want easy.

Interestingly, that is currently possible with our MVP. I wasn't sure it was going to be useful to anyone, but now I know. Cheers. Hoping to share more soon.

larue.brent

N0bodyOfTheGoat said:

One feature I've yet to find on a bike route planner is...

Suggest routes that link up specific climbs you highlight on the map.

Cool idea!