New cassette - simple swap or not compatible?

boyse7en

Hi all,
I've just bought a new (to me) road bike to start getting out and about.

I want to swap the cassette over, as it currently only has Shimano 105 8-speed gears on it.

Ideally i want to fit an 11-speed 11-32 cassette, but don't know if this is possible. The brakes/shifter are Ultegra 6800, and the wheel is a Vision T42.

Are all the freehub bodies the same, so the cassettes are the same size, or is it more difficult than that?

Hope someone can help

Cheers

singleton

If you have an 8 speed cassette, then you probably also have 8 speed shifters and an 8 speed mech - so you have an 8 speed groupset.

Best you may be able to do is find a different 8 speed cassette.

daniel_b

That does sound a pretty ODD setup - did you clarify with the previous owner what exactly you were buying?

Is it possible they have bunged on an old wheelset that happened to have an 8spd cassette on it?

What makes you sure you have 6800 shifters?

If so, the changes should be terrible, as it would be down to almost blind luck whether any of the cogs could be made to line up.

If the wheels are of a certain age, then it maybe the freehub is not deep enough to accept an 11spd cassette anyway - I think the first step is to get some accurate specs, and speak to the previous owner to see exactly what you have.

To change a cassette you just need a chainwhip and a cassette removal tool - not very expensive, and will come in useful multiple times in the future.

boyse7en

The previous owner isn't answering messages now as i have had a go at him for selling me a bike he said was 22 speed that turns out to be 16 speed...

I'm sure they are 6800 shifters as they have it stamped on the levers under the rubber hoods.

I've got a cassette tool on order, and already have a chain whip from previous motorbike jobs. Any idea how i can tell whether the hub is big enough?
If its not, am i limited to 8 speed or can i go to 10?

super_davo

I think you need to take to a shop to get a professional to look at it.

As has been mentioned, 6800 is 11 speed. If it shifts with the set up it's got, it is likely not that.

Shimano have made many 8 speed systems over the years but they still have a current one in Claris. So if you need a new cassette for any reason then it is still possible to get one relatively cheaply.

But if you're just after increasing the number of gears from 8 to 11 then you need shifters, mech, chain, chainset to match or it won't work (or at least won't work well) so either it's not working well now or it won't after you change.

It is entirely possible the seller misled you - whether intentionally or not - and you just have an 8 speed bike. If you give more details about the bike - spec list, photos etc. then the BR forumites may be able to help more.

IMO you would be better just taking to a shop and asking them to have a look. I would expect most to tell you what it is for free; armed with that information you can get better advice from here should you want.

Wheelspinner

I think the answer you’re after is whether 11 speed cassettes will fit on your wheel. The answer is… maybe. Given the confusion around your setup, it’s hard to be sure.

Shimano freewheels for 8/9/10 speed were all the same, and completely interchangeable cassettes. When they introduced 11 speed, the freehub *did* change and the splines are now slightly longer to allow for the extra width of the 11 speed cassette. This new design is backwards compatible with 8 - 10 speed cassettes by use of a thin spacer (~1.6mm I think) which you fit over the splines first, then fit the cassette. Otherwise it can be impossible to get the lock ring to actually lock. The spacer is not required with an 11sp cassette.

Apart from the shifters, what is the rear derailleur currently fitted? Even if it is an Ultegra 6800 series you may find an 11-32 not usable. You might need a medium cage length to run that - the short cage typically only works up to a 30.

Ben6899

We need photos, tbh.

boyse7en

Pics of the relevant parts.
The levers have got "Shimano ST6800 JAPAN" moulded into them under the rubber hoods
The rear derailleur fitted is an Ultegra and i think is a short cage.
The rear derailleur in the box is an R8000GS, which is a medium cage suitable for up to 34 tooth rear sprockets.
The Cassette lockring says it is a Shimano 105 CS-5800

Ben6899

Thanks for sharing photos.

That looks like all 11sp kit, except the cassette being only 8sp! Even the lockring is 11sp (5800).

Are the cogs tight on the freehub body? Any spacers behind the largest cog? How many, and what thickness?

I see three options:

1. The seller has palmed you off with an 8/9/10sp wheel and an old 8sp cassette, rather than passing on whatever wheels they've been using with the bike;
2. The seller has purposefully given you an 8sp cassette on an 11sp wheel (because they wanted to keep the 11sp cassette for themselves) and bodged it with spacers; or
3. The seller is clueless and has been running this setup (either 8/9/10sp wheel or bodged 11sp wheel) and has passed it on to you like this in completely good faith.

What wheel is it?

Ben6899

ADDED: man, the more I look; the more I see an 11sp cassette with the largest three cogs (which are clustered together) missing.

Anyway, this is where to measure the freehub (body length):

boyse7en

Thanks Ben, some useful info there

No lateral free play on the cogs.
The wheels are Vision T42 - look like they are 2015-ish era from what i can find.


I'm waiting on a lockring tool to arrive so i can disassemble the cassette - at the moment i can't see an obvious spacer but who knows what might be in there.

I was hoping that i could find out the info so i could order everything and get it here, but i think i'll wait until the tool arrives and measure the hub before i splash out on a new cassette in case it is the wrong one.

The weather is terrible so i probably don't want to take my new bike out anyway

boyse7en

I've had another look, and from what i can see (working top to bottom):
The silver ring is a spacer
Then two pawl rings
Then a black rubber seal
Then the silver bit i think is the flange on the freehub
Then there is a black spacer ring about 2mm wide

Ben6899

I can’t quite make out what is what in the photo, to be honest. The spacer just loose and floating about is a bit weird.

Plot twist though: I have a pair of T42s in the shed. They have an 11sp freehub on them…

whyamihere

That looks like an 8 speed cassette on an 11 speed freehub, the black spacer just before the cassette is likely the one needed to make an 8 speed cassette fit. Very strange that it's on there with everything else being 11 speed.

Once you can get the cassette off, you can measure up. If it does turn out to be a 10 speed freehub, the Shimano 11-34 11 speed cassette actually fits a 10 speed freehub and needs a spacer on an 11 speed one, so that could be an option.

dj58

If the O.E. setup was 2 x 11 and the seller described it as that, then may be their intention was to keep the 11sp CS-5800 without telling you and bodge the 8sp cassette knowing you would not be able to do anything about it? Rotter.

me-109

The question on my mind is why is the entire hub centre stripped out?

arlowood

me-109 said:

The question on my mind is why is the entire hub centre stripped out?

Me too. My first reaction to the pic of the cassette./freehub was - "Where's the rest of the wheel?"

If he wants to remove the cassette it might be better to reassemble the wheel but Hey - Ho what do I know?

boyse7en

me-109 said:

The question on my mind is why is the entire hub centre stripped out?

There was a bit of play in the rear wheel so i took it off to grease and adjust the rear bearings.It was only at that stage that i discovered the 8 speed cassette.
I can reassemble the axle back into the wheel in about 2 minutes so it no problem

Mad_Malx

boyse7en said:

I've got a cassette tool on order, and already have a chain whip from previous motorbike jobs. Any idea how i can tell whether the hub is big enough?

I’m wondering if a MC chain whip has the same link spacing, and also too wide?

Ben6899

Mad_Malx said:

boyse7en said:

I've got a cassette tool on order, and already have a chain whip from previous motorbike jobs. Any idea how i can tell whether the hub is big enough?

I’m wondering if a MC chain whip has the same link spacing, and also too wide?

Should work - doesn’t need to be a perfect fit.

boyse7en

Well, a bit of progress. The cassette tool turned up today so i whipped off the cassette (yes, the chain tool fitted fine). The lock ring tool was a tight fit around the axle so i had to tap it to get it in far enough to engage with the lockring but it undid OK.
Measured the Freehub body and its roughly 37mm when measured with a steel rule, so it looks like it should take an 11sp cassette.

boyse7en

11 speed cassette fitted and almost working. The shifting needs a bit of adjustment. Spent a while fiddling with it but i can either get to shift up ok, or down Ok, but not both
Guess it might need a pair of new cables.

Ben6899

Derailleur hanger might be bent. It’s quite common.