Bearings shot after 3000km?
MidlandsGrimpeur2
Posts: 2,127
in Workshop
Had the bb bearings replaced on the caad12 by my LBS over the summer in prep for the winter. Nothing fancy, just standard stainless steel job (crank is a sram gxp).
Been back on the bike since mid-late October so roughly 3000km or so. Noticed a creak at the bb earlier in the week. Removed the chain today and found play in the cranks and the classic rough grinding as the cranks spin round.
Not ridden the bike in any harsh conditions and carried out usual cleaning regime over the last two months.
Bearings should not have gone after so little use should they?
Not suggesting any fault on the part of my LBS, although I would expect a FOC replacement. Would that be fair?
Been back on the bike since mid-late October so roughly 3000km or so. Noticed a creak at the bb earlier in the week. Removed the chain today and found play in the cranks and the classic rough grinding as the cranks spin round.
Not ridden the bike in any harsh conditions and carried out usual cleaning regime over the last two months.
Bearings should not have gone after so little use should they?
Not suggesting any fault on the part of my LBS, although I would expect a FOC replacement. Would that be fair?
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Phht. My winter bike has had the same crankset bearings from new in 2011.
Only excuse could be a power washer for cleaning. Hard to prove either way though.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
You'd really take it back there?
Really?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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You have to grease pack them as well. Cleaning isn’t enough.0
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if there's side to side play after only 3000km, i'd assume poor installation - failure to clamp nds correctly and/or incorrect bearing shield installation and/or wrong ds shims/wavy washer
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Yes, side to side play. Have torqued the crank up to spec and the play has gone but bearings are still rough as when spinning the cranks, so I assume they have had it.
MF - tricky one. Ordinarily I'd avoid going back if it was the first time I'd used them but they have done 3 jobs previously with no issue. I'd be inclined to give them a chance to rectify the situation, as hopefully it is defective component rather than a bodge on their part.0 -
if you just tightened the crank to reach specified torque then i'd say the lbs didn't...
correct tightening clamps the nds inner bearing race between the step on the axle and the nds crank, once it's done, it should stay that way
to be loose, either the inner race got narrower, or the axle stretched, or the extremely tight clamping bolt backed out, or the crank developed a divot... or, most likely, the lbs didn't tighten it properly and/or messed up some other way
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
It’s a CAAD12 so what bottom bracket and or conversion adapter do you have on there? Maybe the shop doesn’t know about BB30A standard and didn’t fit accordingly but that said what did you have before the replacement?Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.0 -
Do you still have one of the dodgy press fit BBs in your CAAD12? The one in my brothers didn't even last a year (he also had creaking/play in his cranks). Installed a wheels manufacturing one and 2 years later it is still going strong.0
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Thanks for all the comments so far.
BB is the wheels manufacturing adaptor as per your setup PMark. Had no issues at all up until now.
Crank was installed by the original retailer. The bearing replacement was through a different bike shop (place I bought from is miles away so difficult to go back to them for any mechanical work).
As far as I am aware, LBS literally replaced the bearings. Everything seemed correctly reinstalled afterwards, certainly no play that I noticed.
If anyone knows how to remove the wheels mftg cups and get to the bearings, I will have a look myself?0 -
so it's not a 'pure' gxp, but a wm adaptor, and the lbs only replaced the bearings in the adaptor?
is it this type?...
https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/cannondale-bb30a.html
you can tap out the bearings and press new ones in
see https://wheelsmfg.com/tech/PDF/BB30-OUT-GXP-INSTRUCTIONS-WEB.pdf
then fitting the shields and crank needs to be done correctly, there should be no crank play, also check there's no play in the ds shieldmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Cheers Sungod. I have to admit my knowledge of BB standards is limited. It is a gxp crank with, I believe, the bearings pressed into the frameset and the WM cups pushed in to the crank. The link below appears to be the setup that I have, but I can't say for certain.
https://wheelsmfg.com/products/bb-crank-adapters/bb30-adapter-for-sram-cranks.html
I have removed the nds bolt and the crank arm and WM cup stays firmly in place. I had assumed it would just pull out as with other gxp cranks I have.
Will try and take some pics later to give a clearer idea of the setup.0 -
OK, those are the type of BBs that have problems.MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:Cheers Sungod. I have to admit my knowledge of BB standards is limited. It is a gxp crank with, I believe, the bearings pressed into the frameset and the WM cups pushed in to the crank. The link below appears to be the setup that I have, but I can't say for certain.
https://wheelsmfg.com/products/bb-crank-adapters/bb30-adapter-for-sram-cranks.html
I have removed the nds bolt and the crank arm and WM cup stays firmly in place. I had assumed it would just pull out as with other gxp cranks I have.
Will try and take some pics later to give a clearer idea of the setup.
My brother has one of these:
https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/cannondale-bb30a.html
He originally had SRAM cranks like you, but installed a BB that supports shimano cranks and got some new Tiagra cranks (he had managed to damage the old cranks when they became very loose).
So to save you more issues in the future, I would look at changing out your BB with something like one of the above that can screw in.0 -
Heck, I have a bike that I built in 1984 that has over 150,000 miles on the bike, and on the Suntour Superbe BB, and the bearings are the original bearings! The grease isn't original, they've been regreased many countless times. But of course, they don't make stuff like they used to.0
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Cheers all.
Called the shop that sold me the bike for advice on how to get the cranks off.
Follwed the instructions and cranks and cups are fine. It is just the bearings that have had it.
Will replace and see how long they last. If they go again in short order, I assume there is an issue with the BB setup and will look at options.
Hopefully it was just a crap set of bearings in the first place!0 -
Update - replaced bearings earlier this year and they went.
Then had a wheels mftg BB installed by another bike shop. Lasted 8 weeks before trashing the bearings and crank spindle.
After a bit of digging and a fair few Hambini videos I am certain the BB shell is undersized and the DS and NDS are not concentric, which is the root cause of this issue.
As far as I am concerned this should qualify as a manufacturing fault on Cannondale's part, as the bb shell in the frame was not manufactured to the correct tolerance and should be covered under the lifetime warranty that comes with the frame.
Has anyone had a similar experience with a BB shell not to the required spec? Did you manage to get it resolved under warranty?0 -
When you say the bearings are shot, are they rough, seized (rusted) or worn?
The Hambini misalignment issue might be a cause of premature bearing wear, but 3000km would be a hyper-wear rate, even for a badly aligned bearing. 3000km @ 25Kph = 120 hours use (at approx 90rpm). That could be just a few minutes use in a motor.
I’d say almost all wear occurs from corrosion of the bearing surface due to water ingress from riding in the rain or especially overzealous use of degreasers and hosepipes.
Packing bearings (75-100% full) in a quality marine type grease* would give the bearings a longer life. I’m coming to 50,000km on standard Shimano press fit after greasing as described with no wear.
Wheels manufacturing basically say the same.
https://wheelsmfg.com/blog/bearing-maintenance-and-replacement.html
*Petro Canada LLG grease.
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Bike was originally purchased in 2018.
First 2 sets of bearings were all rough, usual grinding when the cranks were turned. I did not replace them, my LBS did, so cannot say what they looked like i.e. any rusting.
The 3rd set (which were the subject on the original post in this thread) seized up completely and the cranks would not turn. They were rough and worn but not rusted.
Each of these sets were (I believe) bearings pressed into the shell with the external Wheels Mftg BB30 crank shims pressed into the BB shell on both DS and NDS.
The new BB was a wheels manufacturing two piece with the bearings already pressed into the BB. This kept coming loose after about 200km and I had to retighten it almost each ride. Within a week or two it was creaking and after 7-8 weeks the BB seized completely. The bearings on the DS are gravelly and the actual DS part of the BB (once the two halves were unscrewed) has become completed welded to the crank spindle and I cannot get it off. I can see the bearings inside it, there is no rusting at all. The NDS bearings seem okay.
I can't believe that this is a bearing issue or due to water ingress or cleaning. The bearings and the Wheels BB have also been fitted by 3 different shops, so the likelihood of it being an installation error also seems unlikely.
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Isn't the purpose of the Wheels mfg BB to eliminate bearing alignment issues and stop creaking? Surely, the frame must meet a quality control standard when leaving the factory. Is Hambini too obsessive about the tolerances on a push bike?0
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Sounds like a frame problem and you should go back to Cannondale via the retailer... it would help if you have proof of the work being carried out by a qualified mechanic... they tend to dismiss installations done by DIY mechanicsleft the forum March 20230
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If could remove the bearings and pop the seals, you could check inside and rule out rust. You could remove the seals whilst in place too.
As you say, using 3 different shops rules out installation error.0 -
I don't really see how it could be out of alignment when it's a tube inside a tube.
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Sounds like you had the original BB in for 18-24months before first replacing, I'm guessing you experienced problems with it to replace it so early? If so then absolutely sounds like some kind of frame issue.
If on the other hand it was fine and you just had it replaced because you could then that suggest a problem arising since the first replacement.0 -
Isn't the purpose of the Wheels mfg BB to eliminate bearing alignment issues and stop creaking?
That was the idea and the recommendation of the shop that replaced it, albeit not specifically for alignment purposes as that was not a suspected issue at that time. They thought the bearing wear may have been caused by the original crank shims and suggested the full BB.
If the BB shell is found to be out of tolerance then clearly a full inspection cannot have been carried out. Not every manufacturer carries out 100% inspection due to cost, it would be surprising if a bike company did not follow 100% though.I don't really see how it could be out of alignment when it's a tube inside a tube.
As you are machining two separate sides, I can see how it can happen, particularly if it is being machined by an unskilled or inexperienced operator. The fact that the DS and NDS inner shell diameters on my frame are about 0.7mm apart in sizing suggests possible poor machining.0 -
Sounds like a frame problem and you should go back to Cannondale via the retailer... it would help if you have proof of the work being carried out by a qualified mechanic
That is my thought too. Yes, fortunately I have receipts for work carried out, and the shop that fitted the WM BB is an official Cannondale retailer which helps.0 -
Sounds like you had the original BB in for 18-24months before first replacing, I'm guessing you experienced problems with it to replace it so early? If so then absolutely sounds like some kind of frame issue.
Yes, the original bearings lasted about 16 months and started to get rough, usual gritty feeling when turning the cranks. The subsequent replacements have each lasted for increasingly shorter periods.0 -
CAAD12 owner here with 12.5K miles on the clock.
I think I'm on my 4th set of bearings now which I think is reasonable. They're a maintenance item.
Current set has creaked and 1 was "gritty" from day 0, I put it down to poor installation as I had trouble fitting them.
The bearings weren't anything special and I've got replacements ready to go in once the proper installation tool arrives to do it properly.0 -
If you have gone through 4 sets of bearings in 12,500miles and the latest set were gritty from day 1 and difficult to install, that would suggest the same issue as mine, poor frame construction and a BB that is out of spec.0
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If the BB bearings were out of alignment, wouldn't it be very difficult to slide the crank axle through?0
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This thread disappoints me. I’ve had the same bearings since 2015. The crankset is removed annually and checked. All good so far. I reckon about 33,000 kms.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
If they aren't out by much it won't make it much more difficult to get the crank axle through them but it doesn't take much misalignment to cause bearing problems.masjer said:If the BB bearings were out of alignment, wouldn't it be very difficult to slide the crank axle through?
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