Government fined £500,000 for New Year honours data breach

lesfirth

Does anyone know who will pay this fine and where will the money go?

kingstongraham

Cabinet Office pays it, and it goes to the government.

lesfirth

OK .Second question. Where does the cabinet office get its money from and what would they have done with the £500k that they can no longer do?

dabber

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

pblakeney

dabber said:

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

Ultimately you pay.

dabber

pblakeney said:

dabber said:

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

Ultimately you pay.

Exactly!

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

dabber said:

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

Ultimately you pay.

With money issued by...

Pross

pblakeney said:

dabber said:

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

Ultimately you pay.

Surely ultimately no-one is paying? It will just be a balance movement on a spreadsheet in Whitehall somewhere and the Cabinet Office are seen to have been given a slap on the wrist.

kingstongraham

pblakeney said:

dabber said:

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

Ultimately you pay.

Only for the investigation

pblakeney

Pross said:

pblakeney said:

dabber said:

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

Ultimately you pay.

Surely ultimately no-one is paying? It will just be a balance movement on a spreadsheet in Whitehall somewhere and the Cabinet Office are seen to have been given a slap on the wrist.

These investigations don't come cheap. And you have to pay people to shuffle and restructure their budgets. Money that could have been spent on something else, or saved.

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

pblakeney said:

dabber said:

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

Ultimately you pay.

Surely ultimately no-one is paying? It will just be a balance movement on a spreadsheet in Whitehall somewhere and the Cabinet Office are seen to have been given a slap on the wrist.

These investigations don't come cheap. And you have to pay people to shuffle and restructure their budgets. Money that could have been spent on something else, or saved.

It is absolute chicken feed in the context of government budgets. The whole 'taxpayers' money' is such nonsense. Once it has left your account it's not yours anymore.

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

pblakeney said:

dabber said:

So who is paying what to whom and with whose money? All funny money surely. I can't believe it's actually coming out of anyone's pocket.... just funny money circulating around the circus.... or am I missing something?

Ultimately you pay.

Surely ultimately no-one is paying? It will just be a balance movement on a spreadsheet in Whitehall somewhere and the Cabinet Office are seen to have been given a slap on the wrist.

These investigations don't come cheap. And you have to pay people to shuffle and restructure their budgets. Money that could have been spent on something else, or saved.

It is absolute chicken feed in the context of government budgets. The whole 'taxpayers' money' is such nonsense. Once it has left your account it's not yours anymore.

Oh, I know that.
Doesn't mean the civil service couldn't be more efficient.

rick_chasey

There’s a myth in the private sector about efficiency that crumbles when you work in any of them.

I defy, as an example, anyone to study HSBC and the Uk civil service and find one materially more efficient than another.

surrey_commuter

It would be nice to think that it would come out of things that impact the staff, maybe downgrade the claret, reduce the numbers of butlers or mow the grass at the sports ground less often

kingstongraham

surrey_commuter said:

It would be nice to think that it would come out of things that impact the staff, maybe downgrade the claret, reduce the numbers of butlers or mow the grass at the sports ground less often

Maybe they could do without a big Christmas party.

john80

Efficiency in the private sector is aimed around moving as much money as possible into the stakeholders as possible. These stakeholders can be anything from staff to shareholders. In the public sector usually the staff rarely are benefitted buy the business being more efficient. The way I would sum up is that the civil service would fail at running Tesco's in a year and Tesco's would fail at running the NHS in a year. They are completely different models.

webboo

john80 said:

Efficiency in the private sector is aimed around moving as much money as possible into the stakeholders as possible. These stakeholders can be anything from staff to shareholders. In the public sector usually the staff rarely are benefitted buy the business being more efficient. The way I would sum up is that the civil service would fail at running Tesco's in a year and Tesco's would fail at running the NHS in a year. They are completely different models.

If that’s the case how come previous Conservative governments brought in managers from the private sector to run the NHS or is that why it’s f@cked.

rick_chasey

john80 said:

Efficiency in the private sector is aimed around moving as much money as possible into the stakeholders as possible. These stakeholders can be anything from staff to shareholders. In the public sector usually the staff rarely are benefitted buy the business being more efficient. The way I would sum up is that the civil service would fail at running Tesco's in a year and Tesco's would fail at running the NHS in a year. They are completely different models.

My point was more that firms are a lot less preoccupied with efficiency then you might think. It's more no-one gives a sh!t about how they're run other than the people in them.

pangolin

rick_chasey said:

There’s a myth in the private sector about efficiency that crumbles when you work in any of them.

I defy, as an example, anyone to study HSBC and the Uk civil service and find one materially more efficient than another.

I've worked with Natwest/RBS a fair amount. I don't think big banks are anyone's idea of efficient.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

There’s a myth in the private sector about efficiency that crumbles when you work in any of them.

I defy, as an example, anyone to study HSBC and the Uk civil service and find one materially more efficient than another.

They have different focuses. The public sector are far more risk averse than HSBC. For someone who values the rewards more than the risks, this will be seen as inefficient. That said, I think the NHS fails on both counts sometimes (inefficient and takes risks).

john80

webboo said:

john80 said:

Efficiency in the private sector is aimed around moving as much money as possible into the stakeholders as possible. These stakeholders can be anything from staff to shareholders. In the public sector usually the staff rarely are benefitted buy the business being more efficient. The way I would sum up is that the civil service would fail at running Tesco's in a year and Tesco's would fail at running the NHS in a year. They are completely different models.

If that’s the case how come previous Conservative governments brought in managers from the private sector to run the NHS or is that why it’s f@cked.

Managers I have met in the NHS have either come from a clinical background or mainly public sector from my limited experience. The NHS is pretty efficient for thE funds it gets as league tables show.

webboo

john80 said:

webboo said:

john80 said:

Efficiency in the private sector is aimed around moving as much money as possible into the stakeholders as possible. These stakeholders can be anything from staff to shareholders. In the public sector usually the staff rarely are benefitted buy the business being more efficient. The way I would sum up is that the civil service would fail at running Tesco's in a year and Tesco's would fail at running the NHS in a year. They are completely different models.

If that’s the case how come previous Conservative governments brought in managers from the private sector to run the NHS or is that why it’s f@cked.

Managers I have met in the NHS have either come from a clinical background or mainly public sector from my limited experience. The NHS is pretty efficient for thE funds it gets as league tables show.

That’s probably how it is now but when the Conservatives introduced the business model for the NHS they also recruited senior managers from the likes of Sainsburys.
I had the delightful experience of a senior IT manager who previously had worked for British Aerospace telling me how clinical staff should prioritise data inputting instead of patient care otherwise we might lose funding.

john80

webboo said:

john80 said:

webboo said:

john80 said:

Efficiency in the private sector is aimed around moving as much money as possible into the stakeholders as possible. These stakeholders can be anything from staff to shareholders. In the public sector usually the staff rarely are benefitted buy the business being more efficient. The way I would sum up is that the civil service would fail at running Tesco's in a year and Tesco's would fail at running the NHS in a year. They are completely different models.

If that’s the case how come previous Conservative governments brought in managers from the private sector to run the NHS or is that why it’s f@cked.

Managers I have met in the NHS have either come from a clinical background or mainly public sector from my limited experience. The NHS is pretty efficient for thE funds it gets as league tables show.

That’s probably how it is now but when the Conservatives introduced the business model for the NHS they also recruited senior managers from the likes of Sainsburys.
I had the delightful experience of a senior IT manager who previously had worked for British Aerospace telling me how clinical staff should prioritise data inputting instead of patient care otherwise we might lose funding.

Sounds like a big picture guy😀