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EU citizen on UK contract living in France?

I know the simple answer is that I talk to a lawyer but I wanted to appeal to the hive mind to see if this is worth pursuing.

So EU citizen working for me in London has residency but hubby has been offered a dream job in Paris. We point blank refuse to hire anybody on a French contract so can she carry on the current UK contract whilst living in Paris?

Google seems to tell me that it is doable if she pays local taxes but does anybody knows if it will turn out to be more trouble than it is worth?
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216
    I don't know but France have made some changes to their visa page recently and quietly released some things that might help you out.

    To be blunt I'd give Rick a call because I reckon they'll be gone before too long.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076

    I know the simple answer is that I talk to a lawyer but I wanted to appeal to the hive mind to see if this is worth pursuing.

    So EU citizen working for me in London has residency but hubby has been offered a dream job in Paris. We point blank refuse to hire anybody on a French contract so can she carry on the current UK contract whilst living in Paris?

    Google seems to tell me that it is doable if she pays local taxes but does anybody knows if it will turn out to be more trouble than it is worth?

    She can't be an employee. She could create a company and contract for you.* You would need to decide where the company should be located and which law your contract would be subjected to. It then becomes her problem how she extracts cash from her company and gets it to France. This might not be that easy, so it may become your problem again.

    A friend did this. Created a company somewhere like Mauritius and paid very little tax. His former employer liked it, because some of their funds were based in Mauritius, so it added legitimacy for them. His problem came with Brexit as it wasn't very easy for him to prove he was working in his new EU country.

    * The problem will be that HMRC will still see her as an employee.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604

    I know the simple answer is that I talk to a lawyer but I wanted to appeal to the hive mind to see if this is worth pursuing.

    So EU citizen working for me in London has residency but hubby has been offered a dream job in Paris. We point blank refuse to hire anybody on a French contract so can she carry on the current UK contract whilst living in Paris?

    Google seems to tell me that it is doable if she pays local taxes but does anybody knows if it will turn out to be more trouble than it is worth?

    She can't be an employee. She could create a company and contract for you.* You would need to decide where the company should be located and which law your contract would be subjected to. It then becomes her problem how she extracts cash from her company and gets it to France. This might not be that easy, so it may become your problem again.

    A friend did this. Created a company somewhere like Mauritius and paid very little tax. His former employer liked it, because some of their funds were based in Mauritius, so it added legitimacy for them. His problem came with Brexit as it wasn't very easy for him to prove he was working in his new EU country.

    * The problem will be that HMRC will still see her as an employee.
    Many thanks for the comprehensive answer, I think that puts it into an area that my employer would not touch
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604
    ddraver said:

    I don't know but France have made some changes to their visa page recently and quietly released some things that might help you out.

    To be blunt I'd give Rick a call because I reckon they'll be gone before too long.

    Not at Rick's level but I know what you mean.

    Ironically hubby is at Rick's level and is in huge demand to set up a Desk in France both by companies and the French Govt who are offering tax breaks up to nine years
  • Ben6899Ben6899 Posts: 8,990
    If she simply moves to France and stays on the same contract, then she becomes a tax liability, which your company will be ultimately accountable/responsible for - is my understanding.
    Ben

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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 23,216

    ddraver said:

    I don't know but France have made some changes to their visa page recently and quietly released some things that might help you out.

    To be blunt I'd give Rick a call because I reckon they'll be gone before too long.

    Not at Rick's level but I know what you mean.

    Ironically hubby is at Rick's level and is in huge demand to set up a Desk in France both by companies and the French Govt who are offering tax breaks up to nine years
    I've been looking because my previous company have, rather touchingly, said they're willing to go to bat for me and try and sort the paperwork out having heard positive things from the Swiss/French people who actually stamp visas and the like who are being a bit more sensible. There are now season worker visas for France for example which look tailor made for a British gap year as far as I can see.

    As you say though, companies are mostly avoiding the whole issue and putting "Must have EU passport due to Brexit" on the base of every job advert, and who can blame them..?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,410 Lives Here

    I know the simple answer is that I talk to a lawyer but I wanted to appeal to the hive mind to see if this is worth pursuing.

    So EU citizen working for me in London has residency but hubby has been offered a dream job in Paris. We point blank refuse to hire anybody on a French contract so can she carry on the current UK contract whilst living in Paris?

    Google seems to tell me that it is doable if she pays local taxes but does anybody knows if it will turn out to be more trouble than it is worth?

    I don't know the laws but I do know company's compliance response when this is suggested.

    Big fat no.

    Am currently working on a lot of roles that turn out like this and the firms won't do it.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604

    I know the simple answer is that I talk to a lawyer but I wanted to appeal to the hive mind to see if this is worth pursuing.

    So EU citizen working for me in London has residency but hubby has been offered a dream job in Paris. We point blank refuse to hire anybody on a French contract so can she carry on the current UK contract whilst living in Paris?

    Google seems to tell me that it is doable if she pays local taxes but does anybody knows if it will turn out to be more trouble than it is worth?

    I don't know the laws but I do know company's compliance response when this is suggested.

    Big fat no.

    Am currently working on a lot of roles that turn out like this and the firms won't do it.
    That fits in with my suspicion that Google may say doable but it just feels wrong
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,076
    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,410 Lives Here

    I know the simple answer is that I talk to a lawyer but I wanted to appeal to the hive mind to see if this is worth pursuing.

    So EU citizen working for me in London has residency but hubby has been offered a dream job in Paris. We point blank refuse to hire anybody on a French contract so can she carry on the current UK contract whilst living in Paris?

    Google seems to tell me that it is doable if she pays local taxes but does anybody knows if it will turn out to be more trouble than it is worth?

    I don't know the laws but I do know company's compliance response when this is suggested.

    Big fat no.

    Am currently working on a lot of roles that turn out like this and the firms won't do it.
    That fits in with my suspicion that Google may say doable but it just feels wrong
    I would also say my understanding is in Holland, the employee who resides in Holland, whether on a UK or Dutch contract, gains the rights to the local employment law regardless of the UK contract.

    Says the same here:

    https://www.birketts.co.uk/insights/legal-updates/your-employee-wants-to-work-abroad
    So i think it is country specific but I'd suggest France is usually fairly draconian about this.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604

    I know the simple answer is that I talk to a lawyer but I wanted to appeal to the hive mind to see if this is worth pursuing.

    So EU citizen working for me in London has residency but hubby has been offered a dream job in Paris. We point blank refuse to hire anybody on a French contract so can she carry on the current UK contract whilst living in Paris?

    Google seems to tell me that it is doable if she pays local taxes but does anybody knows if it will turn out to be more trouble than it is worth?

    I don't know the laws but I do know company's compliance response when this is suggested.

    Big fat no.

    Am currently working on a lot of roles that turn out like this and the firms won't do it.
    That fits in with my suspicion that Google may say doable but it just feels wrong
    I would also say my understanding is in Holland, the employee who resides in Holland, whether on a UK or Dutch contract, gains the rights to the local employment law regardless of the UK contract.

    Says the same here:

    https://www.birketts.co.uk/insights/legal-updates/your-employee-wants-to-work-abroad
    So i think it is country specific but I'd suggest France is usually fairly draconian about this.
    For legal advice that is very readable. It seems that a short term fix would be very achievable but the company would run from a long term suggestion.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156
    Isn't the first question you should be asking be "is she worth all the hassle?"

    Is this really a you problem or is it a her problem?
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604
    MattFalle said:

    Isn't the first question you should be asking be "is she worth all the hassle?"

    Is this really a you problem or is it a her problem?

    if I did not want to keep her I would be holding the door open
  • briantrumpetbriantrumpet Posts: 7,648

    MattFalle said:

    Isn't the first question you should be asking be "is she worth all the hassle?"

    Is this really a you problem or is it a her problem?

    if I did not want to keep her I would be holding the door open

    You're obviously a gentleman.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156

    MattFalle said:

    Isn't the first question you should be asking be "is she worth all the hassle?"

    Is this really a you problem or is it a her problem?

    if I did not want to keep her I would be holding the door open
    then let her come to you with a suitable business plan for employment retention.

    this is as much as a her problem as a you problem.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,604
    MattFalle said:

    MattFalle said:

    Isn't the first question you should be asking be "is she worth all the hassle?"

    Is this really a you problem or is it a her problem?

    if I did not want to keep her I would be holding the door open
    then let her come to you with a suitable business plan for employment retention.

    this is as much as a her problem as a you problem.
    She is working on it as well,
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,842
    elbowloh said:

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    I'd check the status of the ferries before I considered an island location.
    This appeals to me too but the conundrum is infrastructure. They are quiet due to the lack of infrastructure. Improve infrastructure and you lose the reason for being there.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
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  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    pblakeney said:

    elbowloh said:

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    I'd check the status of the ferries before I considered an island location.
    This appeals to me too but the conundrum is infrastructure. They are quiet due to the lack of infrastructure. Improve infrastructure and you lose the reason for being there.
    Not too bothered by the ferries. It has a highschool that takes kids from 3-18 in Tobermory and has fibre broadband.

    It has otters, whales, dophins, basking sharks, red deer, golden eagles, white-tailed eagles.

    Done.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 20,772
    elbowloh said:

    pblakeney said:

    elbowloh said:

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    I'd check the status of the ferries before I considered an island location.
    This appeals to me too but the conundrum is infrastructure. They are quiet due to the lack of infrastructure. Improve infrastructure and you lose the reason for being there.
    Not too bothered by the ferries. It has a highschool that takes kids from 3-18 in Tobermory and has fibre broadband.

    It has otters, whales, dophins, basking sharks, red deer, golden eagles, white-tailed eagles.

    Done.
    And rain. Endless rain. And blood sucking insects.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156
    elbowloh said:

    pblakeney said:

    elbowloh said:

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    I'd check the status of the ferries before I considered an island location.
    This appeals to me too but the conundrum is infrastructure. They are quiet due to the lack of infrastructure. Improve infrastructure and you lose the reason for being there.
    Not too bothered by the ferries. It has a highschool that takes kids from 3-18 in Tobermory and has fibre broadband.

    It has otters, whales, dophins, basking sharks, red deer, golden eagles, white-tailed eagles.

    Done.
    whats the weather and cycling like?
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156
    rjsterry said:

    elbowloh said:

    pblakeney said:

    elbowloh said:

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    I'd check the status of the ferries before I considered an island location.
    This appeals to me too but the conundrum is infrastructure. They are quiet due to the lack of infrastructure. Improve infrastructure and you lose the reason for being there.
    Not too bothered by the ferries. It has a highschool that takes kids from 3-18 in Tobermory and has fibre broadband.

    It has otters, whales, dophins, basking sharks, red deer, golden eagles, white-tailed eagles.

    Done.
    And rain. Endless rain. And blood sucking insects.
    Sounds like Wrexham.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156
    MattFalle said:

    elbowloh said:

    pblakeney said:

    elbowloh said:

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    I'd check the status of the ferries before I considered an island location.
    This appeals to me too but the conundrum is infrastructure. They are quiet due to the lack of infrastructure. Improve infrastructure and you lose the reason for being there.
    Not too bothered by the ferries. It has a highschool that takes kids from 3-18 in Tobermory and has fibre broadband.

    It has otters, whales, dophins, basking sharks, red deer, golden eagles, white-tailed eagles.

    Done.
    whats the weather and cycling like?
    otters can be overlooked when its raining, cold, raining, windy, cold, wibdy, raining, cold and there is absolutely fuckall to do again.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    MattFalle said:

    MattFalle said:

    elbowloh said:

    pblakeney said:

    elbowloh said:

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    I'd check the status of the ferries before I considered an island location.
    This appeals to me too but the conundrum is infrastructure. They are quiet due to the lack of infrastructure. Improve infrastructure and you lose the reason for being there.
    Not too bothered by the ferries. It has a highschool that takes kids from 3-18 in Tobermory and has fibre broadband.

    It has otters, whales, dophins, basking sharks, red deer, golden eagles, white-tailed eagles.

    Done.
    whats the weather and cycling like?
    otters can be overlooked when its raining, cold, raining, windy, cold, wibdy, raining, cold and there is absolutely fuckall to do again.
    Looking at a house on rightmove that you can see the otters from fecking indoors! censored you rain, wind, cold, midges.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156
    can't see otters when ypu windows are covered in rain and snow and face eating midges.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    MattFalle said:

    can't see otters when ypu windows are covered in rain and snow and face eating midges.

    I'll fashion wipers to the windows.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,628
    I had to let a very good staff member go a few months ago. She decided to move back to Spain as she was pregnant and already had another young child so wanted to move back for family support but continue working for us from home.

    From a business perspective we were happy to accommodate her but when we checked the legalities of it she would have had to move into the Spanish tax system and we would have had to set up a Spanish based company. It ended up being too much paperwork and cost so we had to turn down the request and accept her resignation. Trying to replace her was a pain and I'm still not sure we have really.

    Prior to that I had a staff member (UK citizen) living in and working from the EU as her partner had to move out there for work. That was easy as we were still in the EU and she had a UK bank account.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156
    elbowloh said:

    MattFalle said:

    can't see otters when ypu windows are covered in rain and snow and face eating midges.

    I'll fashion wipers to the windows.
    I'm sure that novelty will soon wear off when its cold, raining, dark and windy at 3 in the afternoon for 7 months of the year.
  • webboowebboo Posts: 3,854
    elbowloh said:

    pblakeney said:

    elbowloh said:

    I looked at a job ad recently which involved permanent remote working. The employer just wanted the person to be on the right time zone. No idea how they planned to make it work.

    You probably need to consider whether she is a good worker. If she is then it might be worth taking advice.

    I'm on the lookout for a permanent remote role. We quite fancy selling up and moving to somewhere like Mull, with great views and wildife on your doorstep. We'd also might be able to do it mortgage free/very low mortgage which would be great too.
    I'd check the status of the ferries before I considered an island location.
    This appeals to me too but the conundrum is infrastructure. They are quiet due to the lack of infrastructure. Improve infrastructure and you lose the reason for being there.
    Not too bothered by the ferries. It has a highschool that takes kids from 3-18 in Tobermory and has fibre broadband.

    It has otters, whales, dophins, basking sharks, red deer, golden eagles, white-tailed eagles.

    Done.
    A colleague of mine went for an interview for a post with Substance misuse service on one of the islands up there. Got offered the job but turned it down due to realising that there wasn’t actually anything to do but drink.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,410 Lives Here
    Animals aren't a substitute for people.
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