Disc brake bike - how easy to change wheels/cassette/chain regularly?
here's a Friday question for you all.
Both my Scotts wear either GP4000s or 5000s.
The net result is that I tend not to want to take them out in the darker/wetter months, and definitely not on the little country roads that a lot of people in my club seem to prefer, where the roads at any time of year are littered with gravel/grass/dirt and associated debris.
I tend to take my mudguarded durano plus winter Synapse out, but it's not very fast.
Would it be viable to buy a tool to undo the chain quick links, and then effectively have two sets on the go.
A set would comprise of:
- 2 wheels
- 1 permanently installed cassette
- 1 chain
- 2 fitted tyres
- 2 bolted on rotors
The tyres on the light (best) set could be the GP5000s for example, and then the factory wheels could be shod with something a bit more hardy, Durano, or Durano plus etc etc.
The new wheels could then be treated to the XTR rotors which are lighter and now the norm I think.
Are the quicklinks really that easy to undo/re-use on a regular basis?
I have to be honest, I have never tried to open one.
Is the issue going to be that the strong likelihood is that the cassette placement and likely the rotors will be millimetres different between wheelsets?
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18
Comments
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quicklink removal, with the tool, which is about a tenner, takes, literally ten seconds.
refitting takes ten seconds
kmc 'links are reusable countless times and fit everything
job jobbed.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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if it a couple of mm gap a couple of turns on the barrel adj if even required - takes 30 seconds..
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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overall, a very feasible plan, Stan..
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Adjusting the caliper position is simple as well. Just slacken the mounting bolts, pump the brakes, hold them on, retighten. I do this all the time when swopping front wheels on my graveller, grippier front or slicker front depending on terrain.2
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That bodes well - that method never works on my SRAM setup, but I think the mounting points are not as 'square on' as they should be (Frames fault), and the tolerances with SRAM (Rival at least) are a lot finer than Shimano in my experience.orraloon said:Adjusting the caliper position is simple as well. Just slacken the mounting bolts, pump the brakes, hold them on, retighten. I do this all the time when swopping front wheels on my graveller, grippier front or slicker front depending on terrain.
Yep was thinking if the defacto result was wheelset 1 setup fine, wheelset 2 needs 1 turn of the barrel clockwise for example, and just revert when swapping back.MattFalle said:if it a couple of mm gap a couple of turns on the barrel adj if even required - takes 30 seconds.
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
I've been using those quick links for years and never had a problem with them, and reuse them time after time. You can open them with your fingers, which is useful to know if you need to open one out on the road, but it's a bit fiddly because you are gripping an oily chain and pushing them apart at the same time, especially as grime can make them stick. I eventually gave in and bought the tool, which is a pair of pliers with the sole function of opening quick links. You can also get a different tool that closes quick links, but you definitely don't need it; you can either pull the chain until the link clicks in place, or put your foot on a pedal with the brake on, until you hear it click.MattFalle said:quicklink removal, with the tool, which is about a tenner, takes, literally ten seconds.
refitting takes ten seconds
kmc 'links are reusable countless times and fit everything
job jobbed
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Not really sure what you're trying to achieve with the single chain. It's going to be a lot easier to leave a chain on each bike, and as long as you keep on top of checking the wear it's not going to cause any problems. For the rest, if you want to make it really easy, you can get spacers for the discs to get them into exactly the same position. Cassettes tend to be close enough for a quick tweak of the barrel adjuster, if anything.0
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Is that intended for me @whyamihere ?whyamihere said:Not really sure what you're trying to achieve with the single chain. It's going to be a lot easier to leave a chain on each bike, and as long as you keep on top of checking the wear it's not going to cause any problems. For the rest, if you want to make it really easy, you can get spacers for the discs to get them into exactly the same position. Cassettes tend to be close enough for a quick tweak of the barrel adjuster, if anything.
Not sure I understand if it is.
The aim would be to have one set of wheels, with one chain and one cassette paired together, for the one bike.Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
this exactly.oblongomaculatus said:
I've been using those quick links for years and never had a problem with them, and reuse them time after time. You can open them with your fingers, which is useful to know if you need to open one out on the road, but it's a bit fiddly because you are gripping an oily chain and pushing them apart at the same time, especially as grime can make them stick. I eventually gave in and bought the tool, which is a pair of pliers with the sole function of opening quick links. You can also get a different tool that closes quick links, but you definitely don't need it; you can either pull the chain until the link clicks in place, or put your foot on a pedal with the brake on, until you hear it click.MattFalle said:quicklink removal, with the tool, which is about a tenner, takes, literally ten seconds.
refitting takes ten seconds
kmc 'links are reusable countless times and fit everything
job jobbed
tbh, i never knew that they did a tool to close as because, as you say, its soooo easy..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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I've not overly tried to open one with my hands, but recall the times I have tried have not been a success - I suspect there is a knack to it which I don't have.oblongomaculatus said:
I've been using those quick links for years and never had a problem with them, and reuse them time after time. You can open them with your fingers, which is useful to know if you need to open one out on the road, but it's a bit fiddly because you are gripping an oily chain and pushing them apart at the same time, especially as grime can make them stick. I eventually gave in and bought the tool, which is a pair of pliers with the sole function of opening quick links. You can also get a different tool that closes quick links, but you definitely don't need it; you can either pull the chain until the link clicks in place, or put your foot on a pedal with the brake on, until you hear it click.MattFalle said:quicklink removal, with the tool, which is about a tenner, takes, literally ten seconds.
refitting takes ten seconds
kmc 'links are reusable countless times and fit everything
job jobbed
Sounds like a cheap tool is the way to go.
I have utilised the foot on the pedal, push until it click technique many times :-)Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
Maybe I'm missing something then... If the chain stays on the bike, why do you need to use the quick link regularly?daniel_b said:
Ia that to me @whyamihere ?whyamihere said:Not really sure what you're trying to achieve with the single chain. It's going to be a lot easier to leave a chain on each bike, and as long as you keep on top of checking the wear it's not going to cause any problems. For the rest, if you want to make it really easy, you can get spacers for the discs to get them into exactly the same position. Cassettes tend to be close enough for a quick tweak of the barrel adjuster, if anything.
Not sure I understand if it is.
The aim would be to have one set of wheels, with one chain and one cassette paired together, for the one bike.1 -
Ah ok, I'm using Shimano GRX which are easy to adjust, no experience of SRAM.daniel_b said:
That bodes well - that method never works on my SRAM setup, but I think the mounting points are not as 'square on' as they should be (Frames fault), and the tolerances with SRAM (Rival at least) are a lot finer than Shimano in my experience.orraloon said:Adjusting the caliper position is simple as well. Just slacken the mounting bolts, pump the brakes, hold them on, retighten. I do this all the time when swopping front wheels on my graveller, grippier front or slicker front depending on terrain.
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SRAM exactly the same..
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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whyamihere said:
Maybe I'm missing something then... If the chain stays on the bike, why do you need to use the quick link regularly?daniel_b said:
Ia that to me @whyamihere ?whyamihere said:Not really sure what you're trying to achieve with the single chain. It's going to be a lot easier to leave a chain on each bike, and as long as you keep on top of checking the wear it's not going to cause any problems. For the rest, if you want to make it really easy, you can get spacers for the discs to get them into exactly the same position. Cassettes tend to be close enough for a quick tweak of the barrel adjuster, if anything.
Not sure I understand if it is.
The aim would be to have one set of wheels, with one chain and one cassette paired together, for the one bike.
because he wants one chaon per wheel/cassette which means quicklink which is a perfectly good idea tbhwhyamihere said:
Maybe I'm missing something then... If the chain stays on the bike, why do you need to use the quick link regularly?daniel_b said:
Ia that to me @whyamihere ?whyamihere said:Not really sure what you're trying to achieve with the single chain. It's going to be a lot easier to leave a chain on each bike, and as long as you keep on top of checking the wear it's not going to cause any problems. For the rest, if you want to make it really easy, you can get spacers for the discs to get them into exactly the same position. Cassettes tend to be close enough for a quick tweak of the barrel adjuster, if anything.
Not sure I understand if it is.
The aim would be to have one set of wheels, with one chain and one cassette paired together, for the one bike..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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I think maybe I haven't explained it clearly.whyamihere said:
Maybe I'm missing something then... If the chain stays on the bike, why do you need to use the quick link regularly?daniel_b said:
Ia that to me @whyamihere ?whyamihere said:Not really sure what you're trying to achieve with the single chain. It's going to be a lot easier to leave a chain on each bike, and as long as you keep on top of checking the wear it's not going to cause any problems. For the rest, if you want to make it really easy, you can get spacers for the discs to get them into exactly the same position. Cassettes tend to be close enough for a quick tweak of the barrel adjuster, if anything.
Not sure I understand if it is.
The aim would be to have one set of wheels, with one chain and one cassette paired together, for the one bike.
The idea is the bike comes with stock heavy wheels.
These I keep and fit with winter tyres/
These are matched up with a cassette that stays on the wheel, and a chain with a quick link.
Additionally I buy a pair of bling deeper carbon rims - these are fitted with a separate cassette, and an additional chain.
Scenario 1 - wet day, small gravelly roads.
Bike has blingy carbon rims on.
I use the tool to remove the chain, remove the wheels.
Put the heavy wheels on the bike with winter tyres, fit the 2nd chain that is paired with the winter wheels set - re-index the gears if required.
Does that make sense now?Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
Not on my Synapse, probably the fault of Cannondale though, but the smaller tolerances, or the closeness of the pads to the rotor amplify the issue shall we say.MattFalle said:SRAM exactly the same.
Combined it's the proverbial pig to setup and keep from rubbing.Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
Did some a few weeks ago on a Specialised something or other
all groovy gravy curry and chips sauce, so, like most bicycle stuff, could just be random from bike to bike.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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It's 99% down to the mounting points on the rear of my bike - they are not square on.MattFalle said:Did some a few weeks ago on a Specialised something or other
all groovy gravy curry and chips sauce, so, like most bicycle stuff, could just be random from bike to bike.
If I use the hold the lever tight and just get the mounting bolts tight so it doesn't move it's fine.
But then when I tighten it properly, I can see the calliper twist so it's no longer parrallell with the rotor - on the carbon synapse (That happened to have Shimano fitted) this was never a problem, as that mounting surface was clearly prepared properly.
Ironically had the two groupsets been swapped around it would have been a lot easier, as the much wider tolerances on the Shimano callipers would have handled the dodgy mounting surface on the alloy synapse, and the narrower tolerances on the SRAM rival would have been fine on the perfectly positioned mounting points on the carbon one.
My rival groupset is from 2015, so it may be that more recent rival hydraulic setups have larger tolerances built in, but I'm just saying as I have found it.
I do have a plan to fit a shimano groupset at some point to the alloy synapse.Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
Gotcha. Personally I still wouldn't bother unless the cassettes are going to be completely different sizes. I'd leave the chain on, and probably replace at 0.5% stretch. That should protect the cassettes to a decent degree, but I'm lazy, having to swap the chains would probably make me grab another bike instead.daniel_b said:
I think maybe I haven't explained it clearly.whyamihere said:
Maybe I'm missing something then... If the chain stays on the bike, why do you need to use the quick link regularly?daniel_b said:
Ia that to me @whyamihere ?whyamihere said:Not really sure what you're trying to achieve with the single chain. It's going to be a lot easier to leave a chain on each bike, and as long as you keep on top of checking the wear it's not going to cause any problems. For the rest, if you want to make it really easy, you can get spacers for the discs to get them into exactly the same position. Cassettes tend to be close enough for a quick tweak of the barrel adjuster, if anything.
Not sure I understand if it is.
The aim would be to have one set of wheels, with one chain and one cassette paired together, for the one bike.
The idea is the bike comes with stock heavy wheels.
These I keep and fit with winter tyres/
These are matched up with a cassette that stays on the wheel, and a chain with a quick link.
Additionally I buy a pair of bling deeper carbon rims - these are fitted with a separate cassette, and an additional chain.
Scenario 1 - wet day, small gravelly roads.
Bike has blingy carbon rims on.
I use the tool to remove the chain, remove the wheels.
Put the heavy wheels on the bike with winter tyres, fit the 2nd chain that is paired with the winter wheels set - re-index the gears if required.
Does that make sense now?1 -
All you do is flip the little lever on the caliper, open the QR and the wheel will just drop... Sorry wrong thread.0
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BBB do a tool that opens and closes quick links...1
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so do Park Tool, Pedro, KMC and a squillion people on Amazon....jimbohorizontal said:BBB do a tool that opens and closes quick links...
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
daniel_b said:
That bodes well - that method never works on my SRAM setup, but I think the mounting points are not as 'square on' as they should be (Frames fault), and the tolerances with SRAM (Rival at least) are a lot finer than Shimano in my experience.
Can't you get shims to adjust the disc position? Should be able to fine tune them to match.1 -
Try it and if the discs rub on one set of wheels then get some shims. Something like this. https://www.thebearingcompany.co.uk/products/35mm-x-45mm-x-0-1mm-bearing-shim-washer/ although different thicknesses are available so worth getting a selection
I use them on my TT bike so don't have to mess about adjusting the caliper when changing from the deep section to the disc wheel1 -
There's no knack really, you just need to push the links firmly, but as I said it can be awkward because an oily chain is hard to grip. It's a bit easier if you take the chain off the chainwheel first, so it's not under tension.daniel_b said:
I've not overly tried to open one with my hands, but recall the times I have tried have not been a success - I suspect there is a knack to it which I don't have.oblongomaculatus said:
I've been using those quick links for years and never had a problem with them, and reuse them time after time. You can open them with your fingers, which is useful to know if you need to open one out on the road, but it's a bit fiddly because you are gripping an oily chain and pushing them apart at the same time, especially as grime can make them stick. I eventually gave in and bought the tool, which is a pair of pliers with the sole function of opening quick links. You can also get a different tool that closes quick links, but you definitely don't need it; you can either pull the chain until the link clicks in place, or put your foot on a pedal with the brake on, until you hear it click.MattFalle said:quicklink removal, with the tool, which is about a tenner, takes, literally ten seconds.
refitting takes ten seconds
kmc 'links are reusable countless times and fit everything
job jobbed
Sounds like a cheap tool is the way to go.
I have utilised the foot on the pedal, push until it click technique many times :-)1
