Owning a farm is a good reason to acquire a shotgun license

shimanobottombracket

oh deer

https://youtu.be/xJZlhECK0Ps

Look it up, you need a good reason to own a firearm. Being a farmer is one.

MattFalle

Tbh, farmers, very very limited sportspeople, the military/police.

no one else needs them.

friggin' horrible things.

DeVlaeminck

Father in law used to have one but couldn't get his licence renewed on account of being registered blind so had to hand it in - shame as it was a present from his late mother.

veronese68

DeVlaeminck said:

Father in law used to have one but couldn't get his licence renewed on account of being registered blind so had to hand it in - shame as it was a present from his late mother.

Is it not possible to have them legally decommisioned? Some sort of permenant change so it can't be converted back into a working gun. Vague recollection that replicas and knobbled guns being recomissioned was an issue so they are outlawed as well. Not much interest in guns so can't remember.

johngti

MattFalle said:

Tbh, farmers, very very limited sportspeople, the military/police.

no one else needs them.

friggin' horrible things.

One of my brothers used to have a handgun, used it at Bisley etc, loaded his own ammunition and what not. Trouble is, he was prone to violent acts, I always felt very threatened by him. I wouldn't have given him a gun of any description. I was glad when he had to give it up.

First.Aspect

I'm not sure there is really much call for farmers in the UK to have them.

The most dangerous things for farm animals are cars and neglect (by the farmer, of their animals or the fencing). Almost everything else, including the rare birds they are so fond of killing, scavanges sheep that have already died.

And please don't mention bovine TB and badgers. Just because farmers find it more enjoyable and cheaper to shoot wildlife, there are alternatives.

seanoconn

shimanobottombracket said:

oh deer

https://youtu.be/xJZlhECK0Ps

Look it up, you need a good reason to own a firearm. Being a farmer is one.

You don’t own a firearm do you shimano? 🙏

johngti

First.Aspect said:

I'm not sure there is really much call for farmers in the UK to have them.

The most dangerous things for farm animals are cars and neglect (by the farmer, of their animals or the fencing). Almost everything else, including the rare birds they are so fond of killing, scavanges sheep that have already died.

And please don't mention bovine TB and badgers. Just because farmers find it more enjoyable and cheaper to shoot wildlife, there are alternatives.

Crows can be nasty little feckers when there’s lambs out and are fair game for a shotgun wielding farmer. And I know of a lot who’d shoot rabbits too

First.Aspect

oxoman said:

First.Aspect said:

I'm not sure there is really much call for farmers in the UK to have them.

The most dangerous things for farm animals are cars and neglect (by the farmer, of their animals or the fencing). Almost everything else, including the rare birds they are so fond of killing, scavanges sheep that have already died.

And please don't mention bovine TB and badgers. Just because farmers find it more enjoyable and cheaper to shoot wildlife, there are alternatives.

You forget the irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs savage sheep. The farmer has a legal right to shoot them if on his land. That's without including the rest of the damage caused by vermin and carrion. Not nice seeing a lamb with damaged or missing eyes due to crows etc. No I'm not a farmer but grew up around farms.

I live next to one. In fact I am sitting in a field with grazijg sheep right now. We have a huge number of crows here. The notion that a pigeon sized bird can do harm to a lamb is absurd. Unless it's already dead.

Dogs, yes. Struggling with the scenario of a dog attacking sheep and the farmer being able to shoot the dog without also shooting the sheep.

Plus it is so rare I'm confident that the numbe of dogs shot who weren't harming sheep is rather higher.

Besides, seeing as in a few months the ewes go through the trauma of losing their young so we can eat them, and pay the farmer £30, I'm still not convinced that shooting family pets is really necessary.

DeVlaeminck

veronese68 said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Father in law used to have one but couldn't get his licence renewed on account of being registered blind so had to hand it in - shame as it was a present from his late mother.

Is it not possible to have them legally decommisioned? Some sort of permenant change so it can't be converted back into a working gun. Vague recollection that replicas and knobbled guns being recomissioned was an issue so they are outlawed as well. Not much interest in guns so can't remember.

I don't know as I didn't find out until he'd already handed it in. It was a 21st birthday present and I know it did have sentimental attachment.

I don't really know why he had it - he was a doorman round some of the mining towns and a farm labourer but he was also into rabbiting and stuff like that apparently - would you use a shotgun on rabbits ?

First.Aspect

DeVlaeminck said:

veronese68 said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Father in law used to have one but couldn't get his licence renewed on account of being registered blind so had to hand it in - shame as it was a present from his late mother.

Is it not possible to have them legally decommisioned? Some sort of permenant change so it can't be converted back into a working gun. Vague recollection that replicas and knobbled guns being recomissioned was an issue so they are outlawed as well. Not much interest in guns so can't remember.

I don't know as I didn't find out until he'd already handed it in. It was a 21st birthday present and I know it did have sentimental attachment.

I don't really know why he had it - he was a doorman round some of the mining towns and a farm labourer but he was also into rabbiting and stuff like that apparently - would you use a shotgun on rabbits ?

Sport. Farmers and cuntry folk like shooting herbivores and semi flightless birds.

DeVlaeminck

Yes it'd be to eat the rabbits as well as it being a hobby with him. Don't think he'd be shooting grouse and pheasants unless it was poaching.

lesfirth

First.Aspect said:

oxoman said:

First.Aspect said:

I'm not sure there is really much call for farmers in the UK to have them.

The most dangerous things for farm animals are cars and neglect (by the farmer, of their animals or the fencing). Almost everything else, including the rare birds they are so fond of killing, scavanges sheep that have already died.

And please don't mention bovine TB and badgers. Just because farmers find it more enjoyable and cheaper to shoot wildlife, there are alternatives.

You forget the irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs savage sheep. The farmer has a legal right to shoot them if on his land. That's without including the rest of the damage caused by vermin and carrion. Not nice seeing a lamb with damaged or missing eyes due to crows etc. No I'm not a farmer but grew up around farms.

I live next to one. In fact I am sitting in a field with grazijg sheep right now. We have a huge number of crows here. The notion that a pigeon sized bird can do harm to a lamb is absurd. .

It is not absurd. Do a bit of Googling on " Crows and lambs". I have never fired a gun and I am a town dweller. i have no axe to grind.
Comparing a crow to a pigeon because they are similar size is like comparing a wolf to a sheep.

MattFalle

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

I'm not sure there is really much call for farmers in the UK to have them.

The most dangerous things for farm animals are cars and neglect (by the farmer, of their animals or the fencing). Almost everything else, including the rare birds they are so fond of killing, scavanges sheep that have already died.

And please don't mention bovine TB and badgers. Just because farmers find it more enjoyable and cheaper to shoot wildlife, there are alternatives.

Crows can be nasty little feckers when there’s lambs out and are fair game for a shotgun wielding farmer. And I know of a lot who’d shoot rabbits too

Rats. Big fat rats. Get rid - shooting is far cleaner than poison.

Farmers, generally, just don't go shooting things though.

MattFalle

Did I mention I friggin' hate guns?

First.Aspect

lesfirth said:

First.Aspect said:

oxoman said:

First.Aspect said:

I'm not sure there is really much call for farmers in the UK to have them.

The most dangerous things for farm animals are cars and neglect (by the farmer, of their animals or the fencing). Almost everything else, including the rare birds they are so fond of killing, scavanges sheep that have already died.

And please don't mention bovine TB and badgers. Just because farmers find it more enjoyable and cheaper to shoot wildlife, there are alternatives.

You forget the irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs savage sheep. The farmer has a legal right to shoot them if on his land. That's without including the rest of the damage caused by vermin and carrion. Not nice seeing a lamb with damaged or missing eyes due to crows etc. No I'm not a farmer but grew up around farms.

I live next to one. In fact I am sitting in a field with grazijg sheep right now. We have a huge number of crows here. The notion that a pigeon sized bird can do harm to a lamb is absurd. .

It is not absurd. Do a bit of Googling on " Crows and lambs". I have never fired a gun and I am a town dweller. i have no axe to grind.
Comparing a crow to a pigeon because they are similar size is like comparing a wolf to a sheep.

Oh yes, it's carnage out there.

Ravens aren't crows. Crows are the small black coloured birds. Ravens are the much less common black coloured birds about 5 times the size.

Ravens do occasionally predate small animals. But the only study I could find was that of X number of attacks, 17% of the lambs in question were alive at the time.

Not that farmers exaggerate the problem by a factor of 6 or anything like that.

90% of the search hits are along the line of farmer piles finds dead, eaten lamb, conformation bias.

Health of lamb prior to 'attack' unknown. But it must have been healthy, because farmer piles has healthy lambs. Fact.

First.Aspect

Isn't the internet amazing. Whatever you are looking for, you can find something to confirm your opinion.

Did you listen to the part that seamlessly moved from corvids to sea eagles? Cos they the same.

First.Aspect

Bit more balanced.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/14/a-of-crows-chris-packham-and-the-countryside-war-over-bird-killings

Particularly like the quote that goes along the lines of, I've lost two chickens.... no lambs, but they look at 'em funny.

First.Aspect

I'd rather be standing next to the autistic outspoken scientist than the rednecks keen on hanging dead birds on a gate.

MattFalle

Hasn't Packham gone a bit extremist and ended up in lits of bother recently?

pinno

"...and when you are relying on Gove to be Mr Reasonable, something has gone seriously awry."

Lol.

Previous adjacent farmer had said that whilst crows can be predatory, it was silly to shoot them because they eat larvae that if left can wreak havoc on crops and have to be treated with pesticides.
There's also an argument not to kill moles - they do more good than harm yet farmers string them up like trophies on fences.
Is there a chance that intensive farming and loss of habitat is causing an imbalance where the crow being more adaptable adjusts easier? Because that is a wider argument and probably the argument we need to be having.

I don't think either party is right - Packham nor the Farmers.

Farmers are notorious luddites but Packham belongs to a breed of people who are prone to knee jerk reactions.

When I were a lad (tis true)... I worked on 2 farms and we never found lambs who were missing eyes or who were attacked by crows.
Further, we had only 1 lamb on one farm taken by a fox and that lamb was prem and in a bad way in the first place.

elbowloh

I think there's often a big difference between what Chris Packham says and what people think Chris Packham says.

If you actually read his articles or listen to him live/on TV he's actually quite reasonable and offers ways round problems rather than just saying stop this and stop that.

webboo

In my village there is a farmer who has a huge Rookery in a wood on his land. As this is in the centre of the village, these Rooks cause a great deal of disturbance and there is often people wanting them culled. The farmer won’t entertain it.

johngti

I suspect that my brother used to just look for excuses to kill stuff when he went off on farmland with his shotgun. Complete nutter.

veronese68

Farmers want to shoot beavers if this goes ahead. More beaver is good.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58322561

thistle_

veronese68 said:

Farmers want to shoot beavers if this goes ahead. More beaver is good.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58322561

I thought beavers only eat wood?

Wheelspinner

pinno said:

Previous adjacent farmer had said that whilst crows can be predatory, it was silly to shoot them because they eat larvae that if left can wreak havoc on crops and have to be treated with pesticides.

When I were a lad (tis true)... I worked on 2 farms and we never found lambs who were missing eyes or who were attacked by crows.
Further, we had only 1 lamb on one farm taken by a fox and that lamb was prem and in a bad way in the first place.

And yet... up until a couple of weeks ago there was a large flock of sheep all just had lambs in a paddock on the way into town, probably 150 ewes and maybe 100 lambs. It was spooky to see 20 or more crows just standing about the fringes, watching, waiting...

They certainly do peck the eyes out, and then wait for the lamb to die as it surely will. Probably makes a nice change from the diet of roadkill they live on otherwise.

First.Aspect

Wheelspinner said:

pinno said:

Previous adjacent farmer had said that whilst crows can be predatory, it was silly to shoot them because they eat larvae that if left can wreak havoc on crops and have to be treated with pesticides.

When I were a lad (tis true)... I worked on 2 farms and we never found lambs who were missing eyes or who were attacked by crows.
Further, we had only 1 lamb on one farm taken by a fox and that lamb was prem and in a bad way in the first place.

And yet... up until a couple of weeks ago there was a large flock of sheep all just had lambs in a paddock on the way into town, probably 150 ewes and maybe 100 lambs. It was spooky to see 20 or more crows just standing about the fringes, watching, waiting...

They certainly do peck the eyes out, and then wait for the lamb to die as it surely will. Probably makes a nice change from the diet of roadkill they live on otherwise.

Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it a common occurrence.

Surely you must realise that farmers just like shooting things and worrying about why at a later stage or not at all.

And Chris Packham does have a problem. He is too smart to communicate effectively with morons.