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Paralympics All Format Spoiler Thread

We doing this?

The Vuelta's on ES for about five minutes of racing a day, so we need something to witter on about and the Olympic thread was quite interesting.

Sarah Storey is at her 8th consecutive games - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/disability-sport/58271923
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  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 3,330
    Track cycling medals on day one -women's C1-3 3,000m individual pursuit, C4 3,000m individual pursuit, C5 3,000m individual pursuit, men's B 4,000m individual pursuit.

    Storey's final will be around 630 am if she qualifies for it, Crystal Lane-Wright is also a possible shout in that. The men's tandem 4000m is afterwards (is it still technically an individual pursuit though?)
  • notquite6footnotquite6foot Posts: 204
    edited 25 August
    Tristan Bangma was the first tandem rider (with Teun Mulder) to break 60 seconds for a lowland kilo, back in Rio 2016. He is now the first tandem rider (with Patrick Bos) to break four minutes for a lowland individual pursuit as well.

    World records in all track events this morning, including a 3:27 for Sarah Storey - every time she does a Paralympic C5 IP (Beijing 2008 onwards), she breaks the WR in qualifying and overlaps whoever she rides against. She'll be up against Crystal Lane-Wright in the final, so British gold & silver guaranteed as per Rio.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,616
    Always feels like the tandem events should have rule / equipment changes so that it is the rider with the disability that is the determining factor. My thinking is either the pilot should be from one of the other disability classes or some kind of device on the pilot's crank that reduces the power they can put out so they all generate the same amount.

    At present it feels like the governing factor on who wins is who has the best rider in an event that didn't make the Olympic squad.
  • JimD666JimD666 Posts: 408
    I'm far to used to watching sport on ES player or BBC.
    I'd forgotten how many adverts everyone else has.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,496
    Pross said:

    Always feels like the tandem events should have rule / equipment changes so that it is the rider with the disability that is the determining factor. My thinking is either the pilot should be from one of the other disability classes or some kind of device on the pilot's crank that reduces the power they can put out so they all generate the same amount.

    At present it feels like the governing factor on who wins is who has the best rider in an event that didn't make the Olympic squad.


    Maybe they should do it like they do with horses in modern pentathlon and you get a randomly assigned experienced track rider

    Also am I alone in not being particularly impressed by Sarah Storey racking up medals. It's basically a ex-pro rider with an elite level caridovascular system beating up club riders.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,783
    RichN95. said:



    Also am I alone in not being particularly impressed by Sarah Storey racking up medals. It's basically a ex-pro rider with an elite level caridovascular system beating up club riders.

    It is that, which for me makes her achievements more impressive.

    She won her first cycling paralympic gold at her fifth games, when she already had 5 golds in her pocket.
  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 3,330
    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:

    Always feels like the tandem events should have rule / equipment changes so that it is the rider with the disability that is the determining factor. My thinking is either the pilot should be from one of the other disability classes or some kind of device on the pilot's crank that reduces the power they can put out so they all generate the same amount.

    At present it feels like the governing factor on who wins is who has the best rider in an event that didn't make the Olympic squad.


    Maybe they should do it like they do with horses in modern pentathlon and you get a randomly assigned experienced track rider

    Also am I alone in not being particularly impressed by Sarah Storey racking up medals. It's basically a ex-pro rider with an elite level caridovascular system beating up club riders.
    Can only beat what's in front of you, I guess - paralympic classes are always a bit wonky because of the range of impairments they have to cover. Wonder who'll quit first though - Storey or Valverde?

    Meanwhile the wheelchair rugby's a good watch, GB currently leading Canada in a fairly close match. Commentators still in "overcoming adversity" commentary mode, despite the evidence of everyone on the court mostly being focused on overcoming basic physics and trying to hit each other into next week. Particularly amusing when someone has a spill and the commentators start apologising and assuring nervous viewers it's part of the sport, whilst the footage shows a player clearly offering to hit him harder next time...
  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 3,330
    GB beat Canada 50-47 in something of a grudge match (Canada having beaten GB in Rio to knock them out with 0.8 seconds on the clock in extra extra time) - GB managing a two or three point lead since the second quarter. I hadn't realised that one of the GB squad had been into my eldest's school earlier this year to talk to them about it - apparently he needs a new chair every three months or so because they get banged up pretty quickly.

    Earlier Denmark upset Australia too. Happy times.
  • dabberdabber Posts: 1,739
    I have to confess that I don't understand the multiple classifictions of impairment in many events but I'm often left with the impression that there are often times when all is not equal.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Calibre Bossnut
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    One of the things I'm most looking forward to is The Last Leg. It's still good when they're doing their topical / political stuff, but it just has something a bit special when they go back to their original topic.
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  • fliteflite Posts: 138
    I just love to watch tandems racing on the track. Back in the day they would be in any local track meeting, so fast.
  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 3,330
    elbowloh said:

    One of the things I'm most looking forward to is The Last Leg. It's still good when they're doing their topical / political stuff, but it just has something a bit special when they go back to their original topic.

    I agree - it's not your average sports show, and there's still the sense that the athletes themselves feel that it represents them. There can't be many other shows that feature athletes sending videos to ask if it's fair that they have to wear gloves in the canteen (because covid) when they don't have a hand to put in it...

    Last night's episode should be on All 4 if you want to catch up - if nothing else it demonstrated why they've never dared book Jonny Vegas and Rosie Jones on the same episode before. Despite Jones being in Japan you could still see everyone else worrying how much of the script was going to survive.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,220
    Pross said:

    Always feels like the tandem events should have rule / equipment changes so that it is the rider with the disability that is the determining factor. My thinking is either the pilot should be from one of the other disability classes or some kind of device on the pilot's crank that reduces the power they can put out so they all generate the same amount.

    At present it feels like the governing factor on who wins is who has the best rider in an event that didn't make the Olympic squad.

    I have met one of the GB pilots, Matt Rotherham, a few times - he's good but he's by no means Olympic standard.

    Nice guy too. Spent a long time watching Milan San Remo with him in the Rapha cafe without realising he was a Team GB cyclist.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Just a bit of a Last Leg throwback


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    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
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  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,563
    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:

    Always feels like the tandem events should have rule / equipment changes so that it is the rider with the disability that is the determining factor. My thinking is either the pilot should be from one of the other disability classes or some kind of device on the pilot's crank that reduces the power they can put out so they all generate the same amount.

    At present it feels like the governing factor on who wins is who has the best rider in an event that didn't make the Olympic squad.


    Maybe they should do it like they do with horses in modern pentathlon and you get a randomly assigned experienced track rider

    Also am I alone in not being particularly impressed by Sarah Storey racking up medals. It's basically a ex-pro rider with an elite level caridovascular system beating up club riders.
    Agree, esp in pursuit on the track. May be a controversial view but I fail to see what disadvantage her disability is outside of a bunch event where obv there may be challenges in handling her bike.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,616
    Part of the problem with the Paralympics is the massive variance in disabilities with an event. The swimming just now some athletes were able to dive in, others started in the water and one was swimming on her back (no arms) whilst others were swimming crawl
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    edited 26 August

    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:

    Always feels like the tandem events should have rule / equipment changes so that it is the rider with the disability that is the determining factor. My thinking is either the pilot should be from one of the other disability classes or some kind of device on the pilot's crank that reduces the power they can put out so they all generate the same amount.

    At present it feels like the governing factor on who wins is who has the best rider in an event that didn't make the Olympic squad.


    Maybe they should do it like they do with horses in modern pentathlon and you get a randomly assigned experienced track rider

    Also am I alone in not being particularly impressed by Sarah Storey racking up medals. It's basically a ex-pro rider with an elite level caridovascular system beating up club riders.
    Agree, esp in pursuit on the track. May be a controversial view but I fail to see what disadvantage her disability is outside of a bunch event where obv there may be challenges in handling her bike.
    TBF though, what is she supposed to do about that, give up and not bother? She was born disabled.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 3,330
    elbowloh said:

    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:

    Always feels like the tandem events should have rule / equipment changes so that it is the rider with the disability that is the determining factor. My thinking is either the pilot should be from one of the other disability classes or some kind of device on the pilot's crank that reduces the power they can put out so they all generate the same amount.

    At present it feels like the governing factor on who wins is who has the best rider in an event that didn't make the Olympic squad.


    Maybe they should do it like they do with horses in modern pentathlon and you get a randomly assigned experienced track rider

    Also am I alone in not being particularly impressed by Sarah Storey racking up medals. It's basically a ex-pro rider with an elite level caridovascular system beating up club riders.
    Agree, esp in pursuit on the track. May be a controversial view but I fail to see what disadvantage her disability is outside of a bunch event where obv there may be challenges in handling her bike.
    TBF though, what is she supposed to do about that, give up and not bother? She was born disabled.
    The Paralympic categories are tweaked regularly to ensure there's a similar degree of impairment (in terms of impact) in each category - and sometimes whole categories get swept away, which is vexing for the athletes involved. If Storey really had an unfair advantage because missing a hand isn't a disadvantage then she'd end up out of the category altogether. As Rich suggests, it's the cardio that really sets her apart.

    FWIW the hand is an issue in terms of acceleration - when you absolutely do pull on the bars - as much as bike handling (a large part of which is actually through weight distribution rather than actual steering with the hands).

    The swimming races are wild to watch though. Absolutely no idea who's having a flyer and who's about to come charging through from miles back.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,220
    I got overtaken by Sarah Storey on Artist's Lane not so long ago. She was certainly shifting.
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Also, some able bodied athletes have physical advantages that help make them better e.g. Phelps apparently had disproportionately short legs, long torso, massive wingspan, size 14 feet, hyperextended joints, produces half the lactic acid of his rivals and twice the lung capacity of an average human. All of which add up to make him almost unbeatable.

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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,496
    elbowloh said:



    TBF though, what is she supposed to do about that, give up and not bother? She was born disabled.


    She can do what she likes. But it is does present the question,' what is disability?'. If you can compete at an elite level in able bodied sport can you really be considered disabled? An average athletic woman is far more disadvantaged by having an average cardiovascular system. So while she racks up medal after medal and gets praise heaped on her, to me it appears similar to when Dowsett or Wiggins used to turn up to their local club ten
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,783
    How many other one handed cyclists have challenged in non-disabled cycling?
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,192
    Some of these sports are... "interesting". This one seems challenging though
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,496
    edited 26 August

    How many other one handed cyclists have challenged in non-disabled cycling?


    How many have tried? How many one handed people are there? And how many have an outlier cardiovascular system?

    Is Koen de Kort now eligible?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078

    Some of these sports are... "interesting". This one seems challenging though

    Its also known as "murder ball".
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  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,783
    RichN95. said:

    How many other one handed cyclists have challenged in non-disabled cycling?


    How many have tried? How many one handed people are there? And how many have an outlier cardiovascular system?

    I'm willing to say cycle training would be more difficult with one hand once you aren't on a turbo.
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,563
    RichN95. said:

    elbowloh said:



    TBF though, what is she supposed to do about that, give up and not bother? She was born disabled.


    She can do what she likes. But it is does present the question,' what is disability?'. If you can compete at an elite level in able bodied sport can you really be considered disabled? An average athletic woman is far more disadvantaged by having an average cardiovascular system. So while she racks up medal after medal and gets praise (and funding) heaped on her, to me it appears similar to when Dowsett or Wiggins used to turn up to their local club ten
    This is it for me - the key question is 'is the impairment such that they wouldn't be able to compete at all in non-para sport?'

    Clearly, if you don't have legs you're in a different game compared to the Olympics.

    Also - added a bit above which is also a whole discussion on it's own - esp as has been noted within different classes there can be a wide spread of impairment.
    There can also be a very small number of competitors in some categories / events, which is why the now typical focus on medals at Para-sport is slightly concerning and to me, detracts from what it's message should be.
  • Lanterne_RogueLanterne_Rogue Posts: 3,330
    elbowloh said:

    Some of these sports are... "interesting". This one seems challenging though

    Its also known as "murder ball".
    Given the way somebody called "Big Cedric" is currently spending the France-Australia match trying to hand out as many new disabilities as possible, the old name should possibly have remained...

    Good match this, although Australia have finally managed to open up some daylight with four minutes left.
  • ProssPross Posts: 29,616

    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:

    Always feels like the tandem events should have rule / equipment changes so that it is the rider with the disability that is the determining factor. My thinking is either the pilot should be from one of the other disability classes or some kind of device on the pilot's crank that reduces the power they can put out so they all generate the same amount.

    At present it feels like the governing factor on who wins is who has the best rider in an event that didn't make the Olympic squad.


    Maybe they should do it like they do with horses in modern pentathlon and you get a randomly assigned experienced track rider

    Also am I alone in not being particularly impressed by Sarah Storey racking up medals. It's basically a ex-pro rider with an elite level caridovascular system beating up club riders.
    Agree, esp in pursuit on the track. May be a controversial view but I fail to see what disadvantage her disability is outside of a bunch event where obv there may be challenges in handling her bike.
    I look at it the other way, I think it is a great example of someone who has refused to be limited by a disability and managed to more than hold their own in able-bodied sport. There will be surely be some loss of power that can be put down, especially in the start where it can be a real effort involving pulling on the bars to get the gear moving.
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