La Vuelta 2021 - Stage 9: Puerto Lumbreras > Alto de Velefique - 188kms **Spoilers**

mididoctors

Pross said:

Superb solo victory for Caruso, not sure how long he was solo but was out front when I first turned on halfway up the long climb. Mas does a great job of leading out Roglic to second. Haig leads in the group of Yates and Lopez with Bernal shedding probably a minute or so.

70 k

salsiccia1

Poor Landa. He'd struggle to win a one-up sprint

salsiccia1

Ineos miss Nico Portal hugely, in lots of ways

Pross

Not sure there was much wrong with the tactics, the riders just didn't have the form to make them work. I thought Yates had Roglic on the ropes briefly until Movistar helped him out.

Dorset_Boy

Pross said:

Not sure there was much wrong with the tactics, the riders just didn't have the form to make them work. I thought Yates had Roglic on the ropes briefly until Movistar helped him out.

What Yates first gapped them all, was he then called back for Bernal? If so, that was a mistake I think.

It also seems Ineos haven't nailed their prep right again.

gsk82

Dorset_Boy said:

Pross said:

Not sure there was much wrong with the tactics, the riders just didn't have the form to make them work. I thought Yates had Roglic on the ropes briefly until Movistar helped him out.

What Yates first gapped them all, was he then called back for Bernal? If so, that was a mistake I think.

It also seems Ineos haven't nailed their prep right again.

I don't think it's prep. They just aren't as good as the others. Their only top top riders are Ganna and Pidcock.

gweeds

Are we now agreed that Landa isn’t a genuine GC contender and should focus elsewhere now.

dabber

Other than Rog possibly fading in the final week(s) I don't think Ineos have any answer to Rog and Pog. The riders they've got aren't good enough.

Just my opinion of course.

andyp

gsk82 said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Pross said:

Not sure there was much wrong with the tactics, the riders just didn't have the form to make them work. I thought Yates had Roglic on the ropes briefly until Movistar helped him out.

What Yates first gapped them all, was he then called back for Bernal? If so, that was a mistake I think.

It also seems Ineos haven't nailed their prep right again.

I don't think it's prep. They just aren't as good as the others. Their only top top riders are Ganna and Pidcock.

Bernal won the Giro just over 2 months ago.

kingstongraham

andyp said:

gsk82 said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Pross said:

Not sure there was much wrong with the tactics, the riders just didn't have the form to make them work. I thought Yates had Roglic on the ropes briefly until Movistar helped him out.

What Yates first gapped them all, was he then called back for Bernal? If so, that was a mistake I think.

It also seems Ineos haven't nailed their prep right again.

I don't think it's prep. They just aren't as good as the others. Their only top top riders are Ganna and Pidcock.

Bernal won the Giro just over 2 months ago.

They've got the winners of 4 out of the last 8 grand tours, but that still doesn't mean they've got a top top rider in the GC.

dabber

andyp said:

gsk82 said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Pross said:

Not sure there was much wrong with the tactics, the riders just didn't have the form to make them work. I thought Yates had Roglic on the ropes briefly until Movistar helped him out.

What Yates first gapped them all, was he then called back for Bernal? If so, that was a mistake I think.

It also seems Ineos haven't nailed their prep right again.

I don't think it's prep. They just aren't as good as the others. Their only top top riders are Ganna and Pidcock.

Bernal won the Giro just over 2 months ago.

I minor detail I know but what happened to Roglic at the Giro? Would Bernal have won?

mrb123

The reality is that there are currently two GC riders in a different league to all the rest.

Ineos have the next best and possibly 5 of the next best 10.

pblakeney

mrb123 said:

The reality is that there are currently two GC riders in a different league to all the rest.

Ineos have the next best and possibly 5 of the next best 10.

True dat.

orraloon

Bit sad watching my left field breakaway ptp pick Bardet on the final climb drop his chain then drop 5 1/2 minutes in the last 6km. Close, but I don't smoke anyway. Fuerza.

Dorset_Boy

mrb123 said:

The reality is that there are currently two GC riders in a different league to all the rest.

Ineos have the next best and possibly 5 of the next best 10.

Carapaz was quicker around last year's Vuelta than Roglic, who only won due to the shortened race and the bonus seconds he won with his 150m sprints.

amrushton

gweeds said:

Are we now agreed that Landa isn’t a genuine GC contender and should focus elsewhere now.

His chance was when he was leading Aru around the Giro, since then he hasn't fared well. Just better riders and worse luck

bm5

Roglic was pretty impressive bridging the gap. Demoralising for the rest I imagine.
Jak Haig looked good.

zest28

andyp said:

gsk82 said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Pross said:

Not sure there was much wrong with the tactics, the riders just didn't have the form to make them work. I thought Yates had Roglic on the ropes briefly until Movistar helped him out.

What Yates first gapped them all, was he then called back for Bernal? If so, that was a mistake I think.

It also seems Ineos haven't nailed their prep right again.

I don't think it's prep. They just aren't as good as the others. Their only top top riders are Ganna and Pidcock.

Bernal won the Giro just over 2 months ago.

That is easy to do when the best riders are not there.

zest28

dabber said:

Other than Rog possibly fading in the final week(s) I don't think Ineos have any answer to Rog and Pog. The riders they've got aren't good enough.

Just my opinion of course.

It is not just Roglic and Pogacar, Jumbo-Visma got domestiques who can beat Ineos by themselves too.

When Roglic had to abandon the TdF, someone from Ineos should have gotten an easy 2nd place.

Yet it was a domestique from Jumbo-Visma who took 2nd and he did it without much help from his team as Van Aert went for his own glory runs.

What Ineos simply needed to do was finding the next Chris Froome. And they missed it as he rides for UAE for a long time.

webboo

zest28 said:

dabber said:

Other than Rog possibly fading in the final week(s) I don't think Ineos have any answer to Rog and Pog. The riders they've got aren't good enough.

Just my opinion of course.

It is not just Roglic and Pogacar, Jumbo-Visma got domestiques who can beat Ineos by themselves too.

When Roglic had to abandon the TdF, someone from Ineos should have gotten an easy 2nd place.

Yet it was a domestique from Jumbo-Visma who took 2nd and he did it without much help from his team as Van Aert went for his own glory runs.

What Ineos simply needed to do was finding the next Chris Froome. And they missed it as he rides for UAE for a long time.

I thought according to your first post on here the future of cycling was a triathlete on an indoor trainer.

Pross

zest28 said:

andyp said:

gsk82 said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Pross said:

Not sure there was much wrong with the tactics, the riders just didn't have the form to make them work. I thought Yates had Roglic on the ropes briefly until Movistar helped him out.

What Yates first gapped them all, was he then called back for Bernal? If so, that was a mistake I think.

It also seems Ineos haven't nailed their prep right again.

I don't think it's prep. They just aren't as good as the others. Their only top top riders are Ganna and Pidcock.

Bernal won the Giro just over 2 months ago.

That is easy to do when the best riders are not there.

Yes, it's very simple to win a Grand Tour. Barely worth a mention as all cyclists win one or more at some point.

yorkshireraw

amrushton said:

gweeds said:

Are we now agreed that Landa isn’t a genuine GC contender and should focus elsewhere now.

His chance was when he was leading Aru around the Giro, since then he hasn't fared well. Just better riders and worse luck

Can't help but feel Landa isn't good under pressure / as the team's focus. His best performances seem to have been when he's been a no.2 / domestique - see 2015 Giro (supporting Aru, 3rd on GC) and 2017 Tour (supporting Froome, 4th on GC by 1 sec).

Whenever he's been leader he's had a shocker of a day somewhere or a crash (or it seems that way). Or he's not known if he's leader or not so he's been ok-ish (The Movistar years...)

ddraver

The hipster's hipster leaving my old haunt in the Hague today... Fixed of course
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CS6aeiuApbE/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading

rick_chasey

ddraver said:

The hipster's hipster leaving my old haunt in the Hague today... Fixed of course
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CS6aeiuApbE/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading

Have had quite a few coffees there.

ddraver

the WNR to Noordwijk and back was the epitome of the 'Sport is War' attitude the Dutch have. Especially when you met another club coming the other way..

m.r.m.

yorkshireraw said:

amrushton said:

gweeds said:

Are we now agreed that Landa isn’t a genuine GC contender and should focus elsewhere now.

His chance was when he was leading Aru around the Giro, since then he hasn't fared well. Just better riders and worse luck

Can't help but feel Landa isn't good under pressure / as the team's focus. His best performances seem to have been when he's been a no.2 / domestique - see 2015 Giro (supporting Aru, 3rd on GC) and 2017 Tour (supporting Froome, 4th on GC by 1 sec).

Whenever he's been leader he's had a shocker of a day somewhere or a crash (or it seems that way). Or he's not known if he's leader or not so he's been ok-ish (The Movistar years...)

Don't think it has anything to do with pressure. I think Landa just isn't good enough in general. When he isn't the captain he gets more room from other contenders and can sometimes capitalize to a point. It's not enough to win, but it may be enough to podium. He is Richie Porte level, not genuine contender level. It's not a slight. Not everyone is highest tier.
Landa, Porte, Bardet, Pinot, Majka, Kruiswijk, Caruso, Mollema... are all good, but all lack a certain aspect of riding that is required to be the best.

gsk82

m.r.m. said:

yorkshireraw said:

amrushton said:

gweeds said:

Are we now agreed that Landa isn’t a genuine GC contender and should focus elsewhere now.

His chance was when he was leading Aru around the Giro, since then he hasn't fared well. Just better riders and worse luck

Can't help but feel Landa isn't good under pressure / as the team's focus. His best performances seem to have been when he's been a no.2 / domestique - see 2015 Giro (supporting Aru, 3rd on GC) and 2017 Tour (supporting Froome, 4th on GC by 1 sec).

Whenever he's been leader he's had a shocker of a day somewhere or a crash (or it seems that way). Or he's not known if he's leader or not so he's been ok-ish (The Movistar years...)

Don't think it has anything to do with pressure. I think Landa just isn't good enough in general. When he isn't the captain he gets more room from other contenders and can sometimes capitalize to a point. It's not enough to win, but it may be enough to podium. He is Richie Porte level, not genuine contender level. It's not a slight. Not everyone is highest tier.
Landa, Porte, Bardet, Pinot, Majka, Kruiswijk, Caruso, Mollema... are all good, but all lack a certain aspect of riding that is required to be the best.

Porte has probably won more than the rest of that list put together.

m.r.m.

The context is obviously winning a GT.