Bont Vaypor S, Lake CX238, Bontrager XXX - opinions please as a non Bont & Lake person.

daniel_b

Evening all,

I've been looking for a pair of shoes in as black a colourscheme as possible, and ones that I like the look of - I know the fit is key, but I need to like the look of them, so sorry about that in advance.

I ride Scott and Mavic carbon soled shoes, and get on very well with both of them, combined with a G8 adjustable insole thingy.

These are the shoes I am thinking of:
https://probikekit.co.uk/sports-footwear/bont-vaypor-s-road-shoes/11840878.html?variation=11840928







Those of you who own similar Bont shoes, how do you find them, and how much of a revelation (or not) is the heatable\mouldable uppers feature?

Just after some general opinions on the brand, quality, comfort and how you find them really - never even handled a pair before.

ibr17xvii

I had some Vaypor+ that I used for around 18 months until I decided I wanted something with a dual BOA dial.

Nothing bad to say about them, I found them really comfortable straight out of the box & didn't bother to heat mould them although I believe this is pretty effective. Quality was excellent, no complaints there either.

I did actually try some Vaypor S whilst I was hunting for my current shoes & for my money they weren't quite as comfortable as the Vaypor+. They seemed to be a wee bit more race oriented if that makes sense & certainly quite a bit narrower for my money.

Shoes are obviously a very personal thing but overall I liked my Bonts & would certainly buy again. I would choose the model that are looking at carefully though depending on what you want.

daniel_b

Thanks for the reply :-)

What shoe did you move to if you don't mind me asking?

From the reviews, the Bonts seem to be quite polarising, some factions love the shoe, and they would never wear anything else, others are not complimentary about them at all!

I quite like race orientated, so I suspect that wouldn't be an issue for me - a lot of reviews seem to say the stock insoles are only fit for the bin, not an issue or me, and maybe logical really.

The other pair I was looking at are Lake CX 238s - this brings leather uppers into play.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Dan,

I had a previous iteration of the Bont Vaypor a few years back. Fit straight from the box and only tried to heat mould just out of curiosity. Can't say it made any difference and the amount of manipulation of the heel once heated was limited in my experience.

The shoes are very stiff as advertised and I never had any issues with comfort. The bathtub sole does feel weird when standing but is a none issue when pedalling. The toe box shape is also unusual and a bit marmite.

Now using Lake CX332 in wide fit. I don't usually get carried away with clothing and apparel but they are a revelation. It is helped by the fact they fit perfectly, which I now realise a lot of shoes in the past didn't, with regards my foot shape. Personally I'd go Lake over Bont but that is completely subjective based on my own experience.

bondurant

Vaypor S owner here. Had them for roughly five years. I've never needed to mould them, so can't comment on how revelatory this feature is, as they fitted me perfectly straight out of the box. Probably my favourite bit of kit all told. I'd buy them again in a heartbeat. What I like most about them is the roominess around the toes and the grip round the heel; you could almost wear them loose on the Boas and your foot would not come out. Super rigid as well.

katani

If you like the fit of Mavic shoes then why not get the all black Cosmic Ultimate which too come with dual BOA fasteners, instead of risking spending a comparable amount of money on a pair of shoes that may end up being uncomfortable. They look very stylish imo.

The Bont uppers aren't mouldable. It's just microfibre. It is the tub shaped sole that can be heat-moulded, but I found getting the shoes hot enough to make the resin soft in a home baking oven not that straightforward at all. The thermometers in home ovens are often wildly off, so you have to keep checking if the resin is getting soft, otherwise you are risking damaging the shoes if you leave them in for too long.
The old Vaypors seemed like they softened at a lower temperature, but then I believe a couple years ago they updated the composition of the resin.
For instance, when I was trying to heat mold my Vaypor S, the shoes were already piping hot, but the resin was still hard, but I was too afraid to keep them in for any longer, because a couple years earlier when I did that to my older Vaypors, the snow white colour uppers turned yellowish and the heel pads crumbled into pieces. Mind you will have to put your feet in shoes that are some 80 deg. C which isn't pleasant at all, that ideally while wearing a thin sock.
The insoles are very thin, but that's the way they are meant to be. You are meant to mould the soles to reflect closely the shape of the bottom of your feet so that you shouldn't need insoles at all, then there is a thin layer of memory foam on the inside of the sole, to further improve the fit, and the insole is just to provide some barrier between your foot and the memory foam/cleat fasteners.

daniel_b

Thankyou both, the 'marmite' nature of the Bonts is what makes me hesitate I have to be honest - I've not had an issue with your average shoe shape before, which is what makes me think it is less likely to work for me.

I also (having measured) realise I do not have what would be called a wide foot, not massively narrow, but certainly more on the narrow side of standard.

I was very tempted by the CX238, but alas PBK do not have my size, which is a pain, as they have a 10% off code too.

I noticed the Le Col Pro Carbon shoes, but they are a bit too shiny for my liking, and of course they have Le Col on the back in white.

These have latterly now caught my eye, the reviews seem to be glowing, and I like the lack of branding on them.

https://sigmasports.com/item/Bontrager/XXX-Road-Cycling-Shoes/NO56?id=1104450





£320 down to £230 at both Triton cycles and Sigma where I am likely to order from.

I hadn't even considered Bontrager, but I have a pair of Specter shoes that I bought for a crazy £50 which have made great commuting shoes.

daniel_b

katani said:

If you like the fit of Mavic shoes then why not get the all black Cosmic Ultimate which too come with dual BOA fasteners, instead of risking spending a comparable amount of money on a pair of shoes that may end up being uncomfortable. They look very stylish imo.

The Bont uppers aren't mouldable. It's just microfibre. It is the tub shaped sole that can be heat-moulded, but I found getting the shoes hot enough to make the resin soft in a home baking oven not that straightforward at all. The thermometers in home ovens are often wildly off, so you have to keep checking if the resin is getting soft, otherwise you are risking damaging the shoes if you leave them in for too long.
The old Vaypors seemed like they softened at a lower temperature, but then I believe a couple years ago they updated the composition of the resin.
For instance, when I was trying to heat mold my Vaypor S, the shoes were already piping hot, but the resin was still hard, but I was too afraid to keep them in for any longer, because a couple years earlier when I did that to my older Vaypors, the snow white colour uppers turned yellowish and the heel pads crumbled into pieces. Mind you will have to put your feet in shoes that are some 80 deg. C which isn't pleasant at all, that ideally while wearing a thin sock.
The insoles are very thin, but that's the way they are meant to be. You are meant to mould the soles to reflect closely the shape of the bottom of your feet so that you shouldn't need insoles at all, then there is a thin layer of memory foam on the inside of the sole, to further improve the fit, and the insole is just to provide some barrier between your foot and the memory foam/cleat fasteners.

Hi Katani, that's interesting what you say about heating your shoes, sounds like a fair old battle, good to know about the soles as well - that's not anything I read about.

On the Mavic front, I have them in yellow, and think they look stunning, but in the black they just seem to look a bit, I'm not sure, just a bit flat really.



I appreciate beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and loads of people will hate the yellow ones, but those who know of me to some degree will know I am good at tolerating yellow.

Additionally there are none in stock in the UK - Germany is an option, but not sure what I would get stung on import duty, VAT and admin fee wise.

EDIT: If it's these ones you mean:


I agree they look very stylish, but not a fan of the knitted type material.

ibr17xvii

daniel_b said:

Thanks for the reply :-)

What shoe did you move to if you don't mind me asking?

From the reviews, the Bonts seem to be quite polarising, some factions love the shoe, and they would never wear anything else, others are not complimentary about them at all!

I quite like race orientated, so I suspect that wouldn't be an issue for me - a lot of reviews seem to say the stock insoles are only fit for the bin, not an issue or me, and maybe logical really.

The other pair I was looking at are Lake CX 238s - this brings leather uppers into play.

I ended up getting some Suplest Edge+ Pro on sale as they only had my size left. I've also got G8 2620 insoles as I struggle with arch support and get pins & needles on longer rides no matter what shoe / insole combination I seem to use (that's for another thread though). They are really comfy but stiff as well.

I tried the Lakes & IMO they are similar to the Bonts in terms of quality & fit with the wide toe box. I seemed to be in between sizes though - 1 size felt too big & next half size down felt too small. YMMV of course.

I also tried the Mavics (not the same model as above though) & although I liked them and they fit well they felt cheap & they weren't.

Maybe consider the Shimano RC9 or RC7 as well? I tried the RC9 & they were lovely but just too much for my budget.

daniel_b

ibr17xvii said:

I ended up getting some Suplest Edge+ Pro on sale as they only had my size left. I've also got G8 2620 insoles as I struggle with arch support and get pins & needles on longer rides no matter what shoe / insole combination I seem to use (that's for another thread though). They are really comfy but stiff as well.

I tried the Lakes & IMO they are similar to the Bonts in terms of quality & fit with the wide toe box. I seemed to be in between sizes though - 1 size felt too big & next half size down felt too small. YMMV of course.

I also tried the Mavics (not the same model as above though) & although I liked them and they fit well they felt cheap & they weren't.

Maybe consider the Shimano RC9 or RC7 as well? I tried the RC9 & they were lovely but just too much for my budget.

Interesting, I have literally just returned and had refunded some Suplest Edge + Performance, which I think are at least 1 rund down from yours.
They only had one size left that was reasonably going to fit (44.5) and whilst it was ok, and probably would be in average temperature weather, the quality even for the 30% discount price wasn't enough to make me stick with them.

Admittedly part of the draw for me, aside from the colourscheme, was the fact I don't think they are that well known.
Glad yours work out well for you, and funny you also use the G8's - as an aside, do you move the arch support at all, as I heard someone say you are meant to try and move them back in both feet over time, but not sure how much sense that makes, and clearly you can't just keep on doing that indefinitely!

The Mavics above I managed to get heavily discounted from Sigma again I think (They get a lot of my shoe sales) the last pair in my size (44) and they fit beautifully, it is like a pair of slippers.

The black equivalent do not exist as stock in the UK, and it doesn't look like they an equivalent anymore either - when they were taken over there was talk of them just making wheels, but it looks like they may have just scaled back production of other items.

I have had the inbetween shoe sizes thing as well before, possibly with Giro - annoyingly a lot of manufacturers make half sizes, but sometimes places over here choose not to stock them

I have had a look at the RC7 & 9 - is that the Sphyre or some such spelling?
I don't dount they are a very high quality shoe, just the styling doesn't do much for me - shallow, lame, superficial - all of those things I agree :-)

I've popped an order in to Sigma this morning for some of those Bontragers, and will report back on how they feel, fit etc.
If they work, I will find a way to black out the BOA writing on the dials, electrical tape or automotive vinyl etc

Oh and these are the Le Col shoes I saw - too shiny and look like a pair of tap shoes to me

ibr17xvii

I have insoles set up with them roughly in the middle & number 4 archpiece. I haven't fiddled with them since. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

I bought & returned loads of shoes before I settled with the Suplest. I think Wiggle / CRC / Sigma were getting sick of me!

Le Col & Bontrager were 2 I didn't try though so interested to see how you get on with them.

daniel_b

Ah I'm sure they are all used to it Has to be expected if they want remote business.

Ah I have only ordered the Bontragers - like the mostly matt black finish with a smattering or shiny stuff.

Now those Mavics were mentioned above, I'm beginning to like the look of the Cosmic Ultimate IIIs despite saying I don't like the material upper
The Rapha shoes look pretty nice too in black, but a sale of sorts would be needed I think, and I'm not sure they have had one in recent times.
Not convinced by the lighter stripe either.

ibr17xvii

The material of the shoe is deffo a consideration in the UK.

The Suplests I have are mostly mesh type stuff & they are certainly colder in the winter months. I have cold feet anyway & find myself breaking out the Castelli Toe Thingys earlier than I did with any other pair I've owned.

I would say the same with Mavics, with the Bonts not so much as they are kangaroo leather I think so much thicker.

I was considering getting a hardier pair for winter but I'm not sure I can bothered with a shoe hunt again, it took me ages last time.

daniel_b

ibr17xvii said:

The material of the shoe is deffo a consideration in the UK.

The Suplests I have are mostly mesh type stuff & they are certainly colder in the winter months. I have cold feet anyway & find myself breaking out the Castelli Toe Thingys earlier than I did with any other pair I've owned.

I would say the same with Mavics, with the Bonts not so much as they are kangaroo leather I think so much thicker.

I was considering getting a hardier pair for winter but I'm not sure I can bothered with a shoe hunt again, it took me ages last time.

I may have also just ordered a pair of the Mavics - just to see what they are like in person as it were - I won't be keeping them at an eye watering (reduced!) £303
But then if I see some in a sale, I know whether to consider them or not.

I too feel the cold, although weirdly my legs and feet tend to be ok, though I have toe cover thingies, and full on overshoes should they be required.

For your requirements I would be inclined to go the thick sock\toe covers\overshoe route

ibr17xvii

daniel_b said:

ibr17xvii said:

The material of the shoe is deffo a consideration in the UK.

The Suplests I have are mostly mesh type stuff & they are certainly colder in the winter months. I have cold feet anyway & find myself breaking out the Castelli Toe Thingys earlier than I did with any other pair I've owned.

I would say the same with Mavics, with the Bonts not so much as they are kangaroo leather I think so much thicker.

I was considering getting a hardier pair for winter but I'm not sure I can bothered with a shoe hunt again, it took me ages last time.

I may have also just ordered a pair of the Mavics - just to see what they are like in person as it were - I won't be keeping them at an eye watering (reduced!) £303
But then if I see some in a sale, I know whether to consider them or not.

I too feel the cold, although weirdly my legs and feet tend to be ok, though I have toe cover thingies, and full on overshoes should they be required.

For your requirements I would be inclined to go the thick sock\toe covers\overshoe route

I really liked the Mavics & they fitted excellently, I just didn't like the quality of them, they felt really cheap & poorly made although this was a few rungs down for the ones above.

Looking at them I'd say they were a nice summer shoe without a doubt.

daniel_b

ibr17xvii said:

daniel_b said:

ibr17xvii said:

The material of the shoe is deffo a consideration in the UK.

The Suplests I have are mostly mesh type stuff & they are certainly colder in the winter months. I have cold feet anyway & find myself breaking out the Castelli Toe Thingys earlier than I did with any other pair I've owned.

I would say the same with Mavics, with the Bonts not so much as they are kangaroo leather I think so much thicker.

I was considering getting a hardier pair for winter but I'm not sure I can bothered with a shoe hunt again, it took me ages last time.

I may have also just ordered a pair of the Mavics - just to see what they are like in person as it were - I won't be keeping them at an eye watering (reduced!) £303
But then if I see some in a sale, I know whether to consider them or not.

I too feel the cold, although weirdly my legs and feet tend to be ok, though I have toe cover thingies, and full on overshoes should they be required.

For your requirements I would be inclined to go the thick sock\toe covers\overshoe route

I really liked the Mavics & they fitted excellently, I just didn't like the quality of them, they felt really cheap & poorly made although this was a few rungs down for the ones above.

Looking at them I'd say they were a nice summer shoe without a doubt.

Having had Mavics from lower down the range I know what you mean, but the Cosmic Ultimate SL was a real step up in terms of quality, feel and finish over what I had seen from them before.
Intrigued to see what the Ultimate III is like, and will put my findings here.
Quite often with loads of cycling kit, the publicity photos more often than not make the item look worse than it does in real life.
Sometimes it goes in the other direction of course!

rick_chasey

Erm lads, what's with all this black shoe nonsense?

I'm sure they're great shoes but you need them in white, my friend. You're not in PE.

Colour aside, the lakes or the rapha shoes look good - the bonts look terrible, like they're homemade or something.

daniel_b

rick_chasey said:

Erm lads, what's with all this black shoe nonsense?

I'm sure they're great shoes but you need them in white, my friend. You're not in PE.

Colour aside, the lakes or the rapha shoes look good - the bonts look terrible, like they're homemade or something.

lol, I approve of white shoes on a lot of people, but they don't work with any of my bikes (Except my Langster but that's on long term loan with a mate) or kit come to that, so definitely not for me.

The vast majority of my shoes are Yellow you will be surprised to hear, so I'm trying to mix things up a bit, and get a bit of black in there for the footwear stakes.
Not only to mix things up a bit, but also because they will not look grubby very quickly :-)

ibr17xvii

@daniel_b The Pearl Izumi shoes have arrived today & I'm pretty impressed TBH. I wouldn't be paying full price for them but for £110 I think they are a steal.

Sizing runs true for me at least, I'm normally a 42 & ordered the same in these, they fit perfectly.

daniel_b

ibr17xvii said:

@daniel_b The Pearl Izumi shoes have arrived today & I'm pretty impressed TBH. I wouldn't be paying full price for them but for £110 I think they are a steal.

Sizing runs true for me at least, I'm normally a 42 & ordered the same in these, they fit perfectly.

Awesome, so you're hanging onto them?

Realistically they are undoubtedly significantly better value than anything I have ordered or considered.
The black ones look nice and properly black as well.

ibr17xvii

daniel_b said:

ibr17xvii said:

@daniel_b The Pearl Izumi shoes have arrived today & I'm pretty impressed TBH. I wouldn't be paying full price for them but for £110 I think they are a steal.

Sizing runs true for me at least, I'm normally a 42 & ordered the same in these, they fit perfectly.

Awesome, so you're hanging onto them?

Realistically they are undoubtedly significantly better value than anything I have ordered or considered.
The black ones look nice and properly black as well.

Kind of.............

I ordered them from somewhere that did free returns so I could check the sizing as they said to size up but that wasn't the case for me.

So now I'm gonna send them back as they are considerably more expensive than from Cyclestore (unless they'll price match which I doubt) & maybe order another pair although I don't really like black cycling shoes but I'm not that keen on the other option either if I'm honest.

I think I might try these 1st:

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-aeron-lab-carbon-road-shoe-dial

I like the look of those a lot better but not sure if that's worth an extra £30.

Will have a think.

daniel_b

They do look good, couple of the reviews mention quality issues, and as they are not boa dials the difficulty of sourcing spares, though you might not need any of course.
Assume it's the white ones you are considering?

Have you checked out these decathlon ones, personally think those silver (or light grey) ones look mighty fine, and are £130.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/van-rysel-sport-cycling-shoes/_/R-p-168471

ibr17xvii

Yeah considering white ones. I've had issues with that style of BOA before though so puts me off a wee bit.

Not seen those Van Rysel before, they look good value. Colours are a bit marmite though!

Even though I'm not overly keen on the colour scheme I'm thinking I might just stick with the Pearl Izumi's, I get to the stage where the more shoes I try the more confused I get.

daniel_b

The Bontragers in 44 & 45 arrived, and the Mavics in 44.

I tried them both with my G8 insoles, and the Mavics although nice, didn't win me over enough for the money, they felt very comfy and biblically light, but didn't quite have that wow factor that that kind of expenditure would need.

The Bontragers are very nice, although my only surprise is that due to the design of the shoe I assume, I can see my toes are a way back from the front of the shoe, so much so that I have ordered a pair of 43s to see if I can get away with them.
I have to try and compare, otherwise I'll forever be wondering.

Side by side with my Scotts, externally (dimension wise) they appear to be identical, and the insoles do as well, so must be something about how the heel sits back into the shoe is all I can think.

ibr17xvii

Those Bontragers are really nice but they're way more than I want to pay.

I've sent the Pearl Izumi's back but still deciding whether to order the DHB's and / or the Van Reysel's.

FWIW I find that if you have G8's you seem to need a tiny bit more room to accommodate them over "normal" insoles.

daniel_b

ibr17xvii said:

Those Bontragers are really nice but they're way more than I want to pay.

I've sent the Pearl Izumi's back but still deciding whether to order the DHB's and / or the Van Reysel's.

FWIW I find that if you have G8's you seem to need a tiny bit more room to accommodate them over "normal" insoles.

No that's fair enough, they are more than I want to pay to be fair - they would be the most expensive shoes I have ever bought if I do end up keeping them.
I was looking for something pretty stealthy and black, and they do tick most of the boxes in that respect.

It seems to me we don't have anything like the discounts we used to, or competition from Europe, combined with shortage or stock, and an increase in pricing, with the abberation of those Pearl Izumi shoes, it feels like you have to pay around 75% more (Inflation factored in) to get your hands on the same quality of product you would have done 4 years ago.

As an example, I bought a pair of Mavic Zxelliums maybe 4 or 5 years ago for £125 from Bike DE - at the time I think the RRP was £250, and they are likely the equivalent of the Cosmic Ultimate SL shoes, that retail for around £260 now I think, if you can find them.

Noted on the G8 insoles - the only pain if the 43's do fit me is that I'll have one pair of G8s cut to 43, and that will be the only shoe they will fit in probably, and one set will be cut to 44 which will have to swap between other shoes, though I can't see me bothering to swap it in for the commute.

ibr17xvii

The G8's are proper insoles for the want of a better word, not the flimsy pieces of foam you get with most shoes so they do take up more room.

I don't like any kind of shoes tight & especially not cycling shoes so I tend to go slightly bigger anyway & then the insoles are a decent fit.

daniel_b

The 43s arrived, and I was optimistic - my feet fitted in, no obvious discomfort or pressing on the sides or front, but sadly on the left foot when I stood up I could 'just' feel it touching the front.

Would likely have been ok when pedalling, but wasn't happy to risk it, so have already sent them back and will stick with the 44s - had there been a 43.5 available that would likely have been perfect, but doesn't seem to be the case.

Bonus of the 44s is that should I want I can wear them with winter socks.

ibr17xvii

Good to see you've made progress, I'm still deciding what to buy & send back next

daniel_b

ibr17xvii said:

Good to see you've made progress, I'm still deciding what to buy & send back next

Thankyou - just dropped you a PM by the way.