11 speed chain... pin or quick link?

ugo.santalucia
ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
in Workshop
I'm going to install R7000 in the next few weeks and I have seen 11 speed Shimano chains now come with quick links... but they also sell 11 speed pins, if one wants.

I'm not against quick links, but I am aware they are also weak links and more prone to failure and since this bike will be used for hill climb races, with violent accelerations and occasionally lots of high torque/low cadence work, I wonder if a good old fashioned pin is still the better solution, to avoid disappointment...

thoughts?*

*Let's avoid the usual "if it's good enough for Pogacar and Cavendish... as we don't really know what chains they use"
left the forum March 2023

Comments

  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,866
    I've not broken a chain myself, but have fixed 3 bikes on which people have. Not one was on a quick link. I wasn't there when they went but I suspect it was more likely a fluffed gear change whilst trying to put power down.
    Obviously no science behind my thinking and purely anecdotal.
    Kinesis Pro6
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  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Never had any problems with quick links so can't really see any reason not to use them
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Never had a broken quicklink.

    Snapped a couple of chains and fixed a few of ride buddies mid-ride and it's never been because of a quick link.

    I think they're great (adopting Tony the Tiger voice).
    Felt F1 2014
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    all good then...
    left the forum March 2023
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,866
    I think so. Thinking a little more about it when I've seen broken chains they have never broken in the middle of the plate, only where the pin meets the plate. Sometimes with signs of twisting. The quick link is no weaker in that area when under load than a normal link. The middle of the plate would be weaker having a slot in it but that is not the issue.
    Was it Milemuncher or Bungle that hated quick links? I wouldn't trust the opinion of either of them.
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  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Not sure, I think I began to notice people breaking chains at the time quick links made an appearance, so I always thought that was the reason... but it's also true QL made an appearance at the time when more "all the gear no idea" folks began cycling, around the Wiggins time
    left the forum March 2023
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,490
    edited July 2021
    ugo.santalucia said:

    Not sure, I think I began to notice people breaking chains at the time quick links made an appearance, so I always thought that was the reason... but it's also true QL made an appearance at the time when more "all the gear no idea" folks began cycling, around the Wiggins time

    Also around the time thinner 11 speed made inroads, and now 12 speed.
    Been using QL on 11 speed since 2009, no issues.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    edited July 2021
    Never snapped a chain using either joining method. However, a mate did snap his the other week - in the middle of the plate! Never seen that before, it’s usually a twisted link giving way at the pin.

    I have seen snapped chains where the hamfisted home mechanic has incorrectly fitted the pin - usually either not pushing it in far enough, or too far, or thinking re-joining a chain with the old pin, or a new pin in a link that you have just pushed a pin out of! So that’s not really the fault of the chain or the pin, but the lack of mechanical skill…

    Edited to add, that Shimano only recommend using their quick links once, so these people who fit a Shimano quick link so that they can remove their chain to clean it are setting themselves up for a roadside repair… they do work when used multiple times, but one can only suspect the interference fit of the two parts is being weakened with every open/ close.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    The only two chains I had snap during a ride were both shimano and both had the joining pin, not a quick link.
  • joe_totale-2
    joe_totale-2 Posts: 1,333
    pilot_pete said:



    Edited to add, that Shimano only recommend using their quick links once, so these people who fit a Shimano quick link so that they can remove their chain to clean it are setting themselves up for a roadside repair… they do work when used multiple times, but one can only suspect the interference fit of the two parts is being weakened with every open/ close.

    I've used some Shimano quick links multiple times as I like to remove the chain to clean it properly and have never had any issues with them breaking.

    Shimano are just covering their backs, perhaps the same ham fisted mechanics are the ones who may not put a quick link back on properly.

  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,866
    pblakeney said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Not sure, I think I began to notice people breaking chains at the time quick links made an appearance, so I always thought that was the reason... but it's also true QL made an appearance at the time when more "all the gear no idea" folks began cycling, around the Wiggins time

    Also around the time thinner 11 speed made inroads, and now 12 speed.
    Been using QL on 11 speed since 2009, no issues.
    I'd agree with this, also on old chains the pins used to stick out a little from the plates. Modern chains tend to be flush so failure looks more likely.
    Kinesis Pro6
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  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,127
    redvision said:

    The only two chains I had snap during a ride were both shimano and both had the joining pin, not a quick link.

    On the thin chains you have to be careful with the pins that they are correctly done, normally the system is idiot proof but I snapped a chain at the pin and injured myself quite badly so I go quick links now.
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  • akh
    akh Posts: 206
    @ugo.santalucia I bought a 105 chain from Wiggle just before Christmas and it came with a pin, so there is still some old stock knocking about it seems.

    I've used both and never had an issue with either, then again I've never broken a chain either.
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    edited July 2021
    joe_totale-2 said:

    pilot_pete said:



    Edited to add, that Shimano only recommend using their quick links once, so these people who fit a Shimano quick link so that they can remove their chain to clean it are setting themselves up for a roadside repair… they do work when used multiple times, but one can only suspect the interference fit of the two parts is being weakened with every open/ close.

    I've used some Shimano quick links multiple times as I like to remove the chain to clean it properly and have never had any issues with them breaking.

    Shimano are just covering their backs, perhaps the same ham fisted mechanics are the ones who may not put a quick link back on properly.

    Indeed, ham fisted is ham fisted, but it’s significantly easier to put a quick link on, then lock it and clearly see if its fitted correctly or not.

    And good luck with the reusing of your quick link. For the peanuts they cost I’d rather not take the risk and so I’ll leave mine on once fitted and clean my chain in situ, until I replace both chain and link. Each to their own.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,382
    I used a single quick link for about 5 years. This tells me two things. 1. I'm not organised enough to order a quick link from wiggle at the same time as ordering a new chain and 2. However they make quick links, it's better than the rest of the chain.
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    First.Aspect said:

    I used a single quick link for about 5 years. This tells me two things. 1. I'm not organised enough to order a quick link from wiggle at the same time as ordering a new chain and 2. However they make quick links, it's better than the rest of the chain.

    Point 2 is possibly correct, but I’d rather not find out the hard way for the sake of a couple of quid.

    Having said that new Shimano chains come with a quick link now so point 1 shouldn’t be an issue, and it doesn’t cost anything extra.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    repeatedly used kmc quick links on different chains for years.

    never had a single issue.

    its a quick link on a chain.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    edited July 2021
    I recently fitted a new Shimano chain on my bike. It kept jumping as the quick link seemed to be stiff, took it off and refitted still the same. So I put on the one from the old chain and it’s been fine, although now I have said that. It will now fail catastrophically and I will die a horrible death.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,382
    pilot_pete said:

    First.Aspect said:

    I used a single quick link for about 5 years. This tells me two things. 1. I'm not organised enough to order a quick link from wiggle at the same time as ordering a new chain and 2. However they make quick links, it's better than the rest of the chain.

    Point 2 is possibly correct, but I’d rather not find out the hard way for the sake of a couple of quid.

    Having said that new Shimano chains come with a quick link now so point 1 shouldn’t be an issue, and it doesn’t cost anything extra.
    You know, it wouldn't hurt to lighten up a bit.

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