Pre wax chain prep problem
I am attempting to transition to wax and I am having trouble cleaning the chain of oil based lube.
I followed the container method in the video by MPEEDWAX and continued this process until the chain left no marks on a white cloth. I also cleaned my components including chainrings, derailleurs, pulleys, cassettes until I could rub the parts with a white cloth and not leave any black marks. After I was satisfied it was clean I reassembled everything and waxed the chain.
Everything was great for 1 week until I noticed when I touched the chain there would be black grime on my fingers. So clearly the chain wasn't completely clean. So I then repeated the container cleaning process and this time I even used a chain cleaner. In the chain cleaner I could see a thin layer of grease on top of the used degreaser no matter how many times I repeated the process. I can only seem to remove 99.99% of the grease. I reluctantly reassembled everything and waxed again.
Today I have again found my chain leaving black marks when touched.
What am I doing wrong? Is this normal?
My bike has only been on a trainer and not outside. I am using Smoove Wax. This is a drip on wax and not rice cooker submersion wax. My chain is new.
Comments
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Far from an expert here but whatever lube you use, you will get that black stuff - its the tiny pieces of metal from chain and cogs that wear off as you use the bike as a result of the friction between chain, cogs and cassette.
Despite thinking the opposite would be true, I seemed to find more crud when I switched to wax for a while and that the drivetrain got very noisy after a very short time riding - I soon changed back to "wet" lube but doubtless there are others who have had good results with wax.Wilier Izoard XP0 -
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The pubs are now open.0
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It is very difficult to ‘clean’ a chain properly as you cannot see inside the rollers.
You could do a lot worse that follow this guy’s advice on chain cleaning, it’s a multi-stage process and it works
Test Results Video
Make your own wax based lube
He has made plenty of other video tutorials along the way, worth a watch I believe0 -
@ Charlie_Croker
Interesting. I am using the same products he is using and it is not working.
I can see issues with the video. He didn't wipe the chain and clean the container in-between cycles. Wouldn't he have transferred contaminates between the cycles?
Also he only did 3 cycles whereas I did 9.
He must be doing tasks not shown in the video.
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flasher said:
This guy knows what he's talking about.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wax-at-home/
Thanks. I have already seen this. It does not help me0 -
kesa said:
@ Charlie_Croker
Interesting. I am using the same products he is using and it is not working.
I can see issues with the video. He didn't wipe the chain and clean the container in-between cycles. Wouldn't he have transferred contaminates between the cycles?
Also he only did 3 cycles whereas I did 9.
He must be doing tasks not shown in the video.
You show a bottle of Turpentine there, I didn’t use that. Start off with Petrol, in a long tray if you can. Then take a brush to it, agitating and rotating the rollers as much as you can. I even leave it overnight soaking. You need to get the petrol inside the chain and then get the goo (grease and petrol) out, so it’s clean.
It is hard to know when all the goo is removed I know.
try watching this
The link didn't work right, jump to 11:27
https://youtu.be/GmhX3G8pm5M?t=687
Cleaning a new chain:
Petrol [NOT Diesel, Kerosene, Turpentine] 2, 3 or 4 times
De-greaser
Methylated sprits
I hope this will help you @kesa
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Kesa - you need to re-set your expectations. Even on a 100% clean chain, using wax will make fk-all difference to anything and your chain will still get dirty.1
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Using wax improves wear to the components, but you're correct as it'll still get dirty, eventually.imposter2.0 said:Kesa - you need to re-set your expectations. Even on a 100% clean chain, using wax will make fk-all difference to anything and your chain will still get dirty.
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Not seen any evidence of wax 'improving' chain wear (presumably you mean 'reducing'). But I'll happily take a look at any you can point to..0
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My experience from waxing (hot melt) is a massive reduction in chain wear. I only re-wax every 1000 miles and can still get around 10,000 miles on a Shimano chain before 0.75% wear (measured over the full chain length). If I lived in a dry climate and re-waxed more often I Imagine 15,000 miles or more from a single chain would be possible.imposter2.0 said:Not seen any evidence of wax 'improving' chain wear (presumably you mean 'reducing'). But I'll happily take a look at any you can point to..
Since chain wear is much lower, so is wear on cassettes and chainrings- win,win.
I have no interest in a clean chain and use moly and graphite in wax.0 -
Here's a chain lube wear test https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/fast-chain-lube-that-saves-you-money/ .Wax wins.0
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Don't worry stick to your 3-In-One.imposter2.0 said:Not seen any evidence of wax 'improving' chain wear (presumably you mean 'reducing'). But I'll happily take a look at any you can point to..
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What - this stuff..??flasher said:
Don't worry stick to your 3-In-One.imposter2.0 said:Not seen any evidence of wax 'improving' chain wear (presumably you mean 'reducing'). But I'll happily take a look at any you can point to..
https://pedalchile.com/blog/3-in-1-chain0 -
My expectations are to simply touch my chain with my finger and not have any black marks left on it!imposter2.0 said:Kesa - you need to re-set your expectations. Even on a 100% clean chain, using wax will make fk-all difference to anything and your chain will still get dirty.
I enjoy working on my bike as much as I enjoy riding it. It's a hobby. So switching to wax is a project.
I have already noticed a difference when I ride it. It feels smoother. I like it. I am definitely a wax convert. I just have to get it working properly.0 -
I have no experience in this. But I am looking forward to finding outmasjer said:
My experience from waxing (hot melt) is a massive reduction in chain wear. I only re-wax every 1000 miles and can still get around 10,000 miles on a Shimano chain before 0.75% wear (measured over the full chain length). If I lived in a dry climate and re-waxed more often I Imagine 15,000 miles or more from a single chain would be possible.imposter2.0 said:Not seen any evidence of wax 'improving' chain wear (presumably you mean 'reducing'). But I'll happily take a look at any you can point to..
Since chain wear is much lower, so is wear on cassettes and chainrings- win,win.
I have no interest in a clean chain and use moly and graphite in wax. 0 -
I used using turpentine, methylated spirits, degreaser and kerosene. I used a chain cleaner that has a brush in it. Ok, I will try using petrol. Hopefully this will workCharlie_Croker said:kesa said:@ Charlie_Croker
Interesting. I am using the same products he is using and it is not working.
I can see issues with the video. He didn't wipe the chain and clean the container in-between cycles. Wouldn't he have transferred contaminates between the cycles?
Also he only did 3 cycles whereas I did 9.
He must be doing tasks not shown in the video.
You show a bottle of Turpentine there, I didn’t use that. Start off with Petrol, in a long tray if you can. Then take a brush to it, agitating and rotating the rollers as much as you can. I even leave it overnight soaking. You need to get the petrol inside the chain and then get the goo (grease and petrol) out, so it’s clean.
It is hard to know when all the goo is removed I know.
try watching this
The link didn't work right, jump to 11:27
https://youtu.be/GmhX3G8pm5M?t=687
Cleaning a new chain:
Petrol [NOT Diesel, Kerosene, Turpentine] 2, 3 or 4 times
De-greaser
Methylated sprits
I hope this will help you @kesa 0 -
This is the only way you will suceed at cleaning a chain enough for waxing. It's the "ShelBroCo Bicycle Chain Cleaning System"
https://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html
Does cost a little bit in QuickLinks though
Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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If imposter uses 3in1 then I’m with him, my chain is cleaner than the one in the OP’s pic and no black on the hands if changing a tube. I run the chain through a damp cloth then a dry one after every ride to clean it and a proper degrease and re lube every 500+ miles or so, little and often is the trick IME.2
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In which case, just buy a new chain and keep it in a box. Open the box occasionally, so you can touch the chain and then close the box again. That's literally the only way you will achieve it.kesa said:
My expectations are to simply touch my chain with my finger and not have any black marks left on it!
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From time to time, I will use 3in1 and as you say, it's pretty good. Mostly, I'm using Muck off wet lube, but only because I bought three bottles in the Aldi specials and I'm still working through them. Completely agree that 'little and often' is the way, too..diamonddog said:If imposter uses 3in1 then I’m with him, my chain is cleaner than the one in the OP’s pic and no black on the hands if changing a tube. I run the chain through a damp cloth then a dry one after every ride to clean it and a proper degrease and re lube every 500+ miles or so, little and often is the trick IME.
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There are a few threads on Weight Weenies that cover chain waxing that are worth a read.
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=139970
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1623760
