Enve rear wheel (with Chris King hub) rattle - side to side movement

daniel_b
daniel_b Posts: 11,579
edited May 2021 in Workshop
Hi BR people,

I bought a 2nd hand pair of Enve clincher rim brake wheels last summer, they are the 6.7s so reasonably old, but by the looks of them not that much use.

I only got around to fitting them last month, and only just now noticed that the rear wheel has some left to right movement, and consequently a rattle when moving it about.
Luckily, due to the crap weather, I had yet to ride it.

Even 2nd hand these were far from cheap, so I'm cautious as to making sure they have the right treatment. Presumably this is something to do with the bearings, and the hub of the wheel, so I assume I would be best off finding someone with real wheel expertise I can take it to or send it to?

If the wheel is dead I would be incredibly gutted, so I'm hoping it won't be anything that bad.
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18

Comments

  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579
    edited May 2021
    To add, they are Chris King hubs if that makes any difference.

    Do you, or the mechanic, need a special tool to work on these?

    I have a feeling these are R45 hubs.

    Just found this video - may give this a gentle attempt - worth a go?
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=b5P491iKucI
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    All that is adjusting the preload. You are supposed to do it or check it on regular basis.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579
    Well I had a go - used a 2.5mm allen key, and loosened off the bolt, then used the guide hole as per the video. At first it would not turn clockwise, so went anti clockwise, and then clockwise, and it turned - didn't go too far, as didn't want to push my luck, but the initial results are very positive, the large amount of movement has gone.

    Thinking to go for a shortish ride, and check after, and re-tighten if need be.

    Would you advise a full service for them?
    I found a place online that services them as a pair for £85, think that includes return postage.
    https://stradawheels.co.uk/product/chris-king-r45-hub-service/
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579
    edited May 2021
    webboo said:

    All that is adjusting the preload. You are supposed to do it or check it on regular basis.

    I've had similar on Mavic wheels where they give you that special little adjustment tool, so assuming this is similar.
    On that video I think someone from CK says (in the comments) as you have said, check them regularly and adjust as required.
    The bike these are on does not cover a huge amount of miles, so will see how it goes, but will also bite the bullet and get them properly serviced if it looks to become a regular thing.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    It's a regular thing so get used to it.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579
    edited May 2021

    It's a regular thing so get used to it.

    Is it a Chris King thing?

    And do you say that with regret, or just as a statement of fact?!

    Presumably at some point you can't tighten it anymore to shift the rattle, and that is the point it needs a full service and new bearings?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Chris king thing

    Statement of fact

    I recall Ugo posted something about it.

    They aren't fit and forget but they will last forever if you look after them properly.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579
    Sounds good to me - guess the previous owner must have been a little laxed then, I tend to be pretty sensitive to picking up rattles that are not meant to be there!
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,244
    A bit of side to side play in your rear wheel is not a problem, it tends to develop as bearings wear out. if you lean on the saddle and try to move the wheel, you will notice you can't move it when there is load on it, which basically means it won't move when you ride.
    I wouldn't worry too much about it and only replace the bearings once they feel really rough.
    A new set of bearings + work (Chris King inevitably need a very expensive tool to dismantle the hub) will set you off a fair few quid, so don't bother until it's essential.

    The real problem is that over the years I have worked out that you are a perfectionist and probably can't live with that side play... I suggest you work at it by ignoring it... you will realise it makes life a lot simpler
    left the forum March 2023
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579
    Thanks for the detailed reply Ugo, much appreciated.

    That's interesting that it is unlikely to move when under load as it were - I'll check that next time it starts to wobble - it's pretty clear as soon as I popped it up onto it's back wheel to manoeuvre it, it was blatantly obvious from the noise.

    Indeed, the tool is something like £150-£170, so one for the people who service these wheels as part of their business - I guess if you had several sets in your household it could be justified.

    I hear what you are saying about ignoring blemishes or minor issues, I'm definitely better than I used to be for sure. My concern with this was that I didn't want the hub to be rogered by me riding it in it's loose state, what with it being such a pricey wheel even when second hand - I do like my things to last, but from what you have said that is not a concern :)
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,244
    Depends how big is the play... with your background of making mountains out of molehills, it's probably a small fraction of a millimeter, which feels like a millimeter or two at the rim but then again, maybe it is a major issue. Although, in the latter case, the bearings should feel very rough as you rotate the axle with your finger
    left the forum March 2023
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579
    edited May 2021
    Well I do have a heard earned reputation over many years to upkeep :D

    It was enough to touch the brake pads basically, and as these are the under BB ones (I don't know the technical name), I set them up with a fair bit of distance, as the wheel flexes when out of the saddle, and pads rubbing when doing that is a big no no for me.

    They may make their inaugral trip out this weekend B)

    I think it is going to be a bit of a shock going to these rims from exalith 2 ones.
    I know Enve came out with a rim more recently that has an improved exalithesque braking surface, but that these do not have, dating from about 2015 I think, so a bit of recalibrating to be done on that front.
    Will miss the whirry braking noise, but then I guess I can offset that with the specific freewheel noise :p
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,244
    Happy to buy the rims off you at scrap price... :)
    left the forum March 2023
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,579

    Happy to buy the rims off you at scrap price... :)

    You're too generous Ugo :D
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18