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Pedal Delay??

womackwomack Posts: 566
in Workshop
Sorry if that title is a bit vague. When pedalling I get a constant sort of clanging and delay on each pedal rotation. (It is reminiscent of when your cotter pins used to wear on older bikes)

Changing down to the next harder gear on the cassette will cure it but sometimes you are just out for an easy ride and want to soft pedal.

I had a new chain fitted recently (didn't do it myself, long story) Could it be that the place fitted too long a chain? Unfortunately do not have the old one to compare.

It is an 11 speed Ultegra 6800 set up. (Obviously with it being Ultegra the MFs will have an opinion!!)

This is my summer bike so doesn't really see bad weather but even so before I put it away each autumn the RD is thoroughly cleaned and lubed.

Note. When I brought it out of storage (spare bedroom) this year it was going up the cassette fine but not down so I did have to turn the barrel adjuster to get it to change down properly.

Any tips gratefully received.

Posts

  • schemieradgeschemieradge Posts: 36
    How worn was the chain? If it's just been changed, perhaps the cassette was also worn and needs to be replaced as well.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 28,049
    Typically this is due to the freehub delay in engaging... cheap hubs have few engagement points. Bigger gear is the cure
    left the forum March 2023
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Take it all off inc wheels because its shitt.

    Smash with hammer, set fire to it, throw it in next door's garden and replace with Obermayers and Force/Red/Chorus/SR.

    Job jobbed.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 12,021
    I had something similar, which I ignored. And then the NDS crank arm fell off.

    Worth checking...
  • ibr17xviiibr17xvii Posts: 1,065
    womack said:

    Sorry if that title is a bit vague. When pedalling I get a constant sort of clanging and delay on each pedal rotation. (It is reminiscent of when your cotter pins used to wear on older bikes)

    Changing down to the next harder gear on the cassette will cure it but sometimes you are just out for an easy ride and want to soft pedal.

    I had a new chain fitted recently (didn't do it myself, long story) Could it be that the place fitted too long a chain? Unfortunately do not have the old one to compare.

    It is an 11 speed Ultegra 6800 set up. (Obviously with it being Ultegra the MFs will have an opinion!!)

    This is my summer bike so doesn't really see bad weather but even so before I put it away each autumn the RD is thoroughly cleaned and lubed.

    Note. When I brought it out of storage (spare bedroom) this year it was going up the cassette fine but not down so I did have to turn the barrel adjuster to get it to change down properly.

    Any tips gratefully received.


    Which in this case is best ignored.
  • womackwomack Posts: 566
    ugo.santalucia said:

    Typically this is due to the freehub delay in engaging... cheap hubs have few engagement points. Bigger gear is the cure

    I was thinking that may have something to do with it ugo. Not cheap wheels though

    https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/parts/wheels/bontrager-aeolus-pro-3-700c-tlr-carbon-road-wheel-blackanthracite__313770?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=545415A&gclid=CjwKCAjwm7mEBhBsEiwA_of-TDvfxP3Ci1fKHBf-9zV2Vjs1y9WAYsXeFPo7BLCSMoMtFGSuIvRUSxoCDRwQAvD_BwE
  • womackwomack Posts: 566
    schemieradge said:

    How worn was the chain? If it's just been changed, perhaps the cassette was also worn and needs to be replaced as well.

    Cassette I would guess has done circa 2k miles.
  • whyamiherewhyamihere Posts: 7,681
    womack said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Typically this is due to the freehub delay in engaging... cheap hubs have few engagement points. Bigger gear is the cure

    I was thinking that may have something to do with it ugo. Not cheap wheels though

    https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/parts/wheels/bontrager-aeolus-pro-3-700c-tlr-carbon-road-wheel-blackanthracite__313770?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=545415A&gclid=CjwKCAjwm7mEBhBsEiwA_of-TDvfxP3Ci1fKHBf-9zV2Vjs1y9WAYsXeFPo7BLCSMoMtFGSuIvRUSxoCDRwQAvD_BwE
    Those hubs have 24 points of engagement, which means that the freehub can rotate up to 15 degrees relative to the hub between clicks. That's not huge, but can be noticeable. You'll get this when you're pedalling slightly too slow for the speed of the bike, so the wheel is getting ahead of the freehub slightly before you engage the freehub again. There's no performance impact of this on a road bike, so there's no reason for manufacturers to increase the number of points of engagement (you could argue fewer is better as there will be marginally less drag when coasting). On a mountain bike it can have more of an impact as there can be the need for instant power delivery on a technical climb.

    Long story short, if you feel it, just shift up a gear or pedal slightly faster.
  • womackwomack Posts: 566
    whyamihere said:

    womack said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    Typically this is due to the freehub delay in engaging... cheap hubs have few engagement points. Bigger gear is the cure

    I was thinking that may have something to do with it ugo. Not cheap wheels though

    https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/parts/wheels/bontrager-aeolus-pro-3-700c-tlr-carbon-road-wheel-blackanthracite__313770?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=545415A&gclid=CjwKCAjwm7mEBhBsEiwA_of-TDvfxP3Ci1fKHBf-9zV2Vjs1y9WAYsXeFPo7BLCSMoMtFGSuIvRUSxoCDRwQAvD_BwE
    Those hubs have 24 points of engagement, which means that the freehub can rotate up to 15 degrees relative to the hub between clicks. That's not huge, but can be noticeable. You'll get this when you're pedalling slightly too slow for the speed of the bike, so the wheel is getting ahead of the freehub slightly before you engage the freehub again. There's no performance impact of this on a road bike, so there's no reason for manufacturers to increase the number of points of engagement (you could argue fewer is better as there will be marginally less drag when coasting). On a mountain bike it can have more of an impact as there can be the need for instant power delivery on a technical climb.

    Long story short, if you feel it, just shift up a gear or pedal slightly faster.
    Many thanks for that explanation. It does tie in with it not doing it when I go into the next harder gear. And also ties in with not doing when pedalling hard.

    I took a beginner out last weekend and was pedalling a lot slower than normal which was when I first noticed it and I must admit on today's solo ride it was happening "at the end of a gear range" if that makes sense as if it is telling me to go down the cassette.

    Thanks to all for input.

    @imposter2.0 Will give the crank arms a check to be on the safe side.
  • photonic69photonic69 Posts: 2,232
    Do you wash your bike a lot? If so then despite taking care soapy water can and does get into the freehub and can dry out the grease. Is your freehub serviceable? From a quick online search it seems to have a 3 pawl ratchet. It might be similar to my 3 pawl DT Swiss hubs that are easy to strip and regrease. Mine was similar a few weeks back and then engaging with a clunk/bang. Stripped it down and the grease was manky and dry. A clean and regrease (I got a small tub of DT Swiss hub grease for about £6) and all is well again.

    Hope your solution is as simple as mine was. Good luck.
  • womackwomack Posts: 566
    photonic69 said:

    Do you wash your bike a lot? If so then despite taking care soapy water can and does get into the freehub and can dry out the grease. Is your freehub serviceable? From a quick online search it seems to have a 3 pawl ratchet. It might be similar to my 3 pawl DT Swiss hubs that are easy to strip and regrease. Mine was similar a few weeks back and then engaging with a clunk/bang. Stripped it down and the grease was manky and dry. A clean and regrease (I got a small tub of DT Swiss hub grease for about £6) and all is well again.

    Hope your solution is as simple as mine was. Good luck.

    I have looked into it and it says "special tools, dealer service only"

    Now I realise they will put that for business reasons but I have never stripped a freehub / wheel bearings and don't know if I have the confidence to try it.

    How do you go about it photonic, I have swapped cassettes before so is it a case of take the cassette off then see what I am faced with, if indeed it does need a special tool to get any further?

    I did watch a YouTube video on it but couldn't find one for that particular wheel or are they all much of a muchness. Looking at the weather i will certainly have a couple of days to give it a go!
  • johngtijohngti Posts: 2,483
    Every time I see the thread title, I mistakenly think it’s about guitar effects.
  • womackwomack Posts: 566
    edited May 2021
    Big shout out to @photonic69

    Took the freehub off to clean and regrease and one of the three pawls was incorrectly fitted.

    Can only think it came from the factory like that. Just put it all back together and it feels "right"

    Will give it a ride over the weekend to see if it has sorted it.

    Fingers crossed.

    Edit. It is indeed the DT Swiss three pawls hub fitted to these wheels.
  • photonic69photonic69 Posts: 2,232
    Glad I could help. DT Swiss hubs are almost a joy to service they are so easy!
    womack said:

    Big shout out to @photonic69

    Took the freehub off to clean and regrease and one of the three pawls was incorrectly fitted.

    Can only think it came from the factory like that. Just put it all back together and it feels "right"

    Will give it a ride over the weekend to see if it has sorted it.

    Fingers crossed.

    Edit. It is indeed the DT Swiss three pawls hub fitted to these wheels.

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