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Bet 365

shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,589
edited 1 April in The cake stop
Just saw the boss took home over £450m this year.

I am torn between not really caring what other people earn and certainly not driven by politics of envy but I do wish that slightly less abhorrent practises could generate such extreme wealth.

*I'd probably buy shares if it was listed / paid good dividends
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  • lesfirthlesfirth Posts: 1,205
    I never cease to be amazed that the punters, who think they are going to win, don't ask themselves where the £450m comes from.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,783
    Takes it as salary and is based in the UK.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156

    Just saw the boss took home over £450m this year.

    I am torn between not really caring what other people earn and certainly not driven by politics of envy but I do wish that slightly less abhorrent practises could generate such extreme wealth.

    *I'd probably buy shares if it was listed / paid good dividends

    no worse than being a banker at look at the money they take home...
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,589
    edited 1 April
    MattFalle said:

    Just saw the boss took home over £450m this year.

    I am torn between not really caring what other people earn and certainly not driven by politics of envy but I do wish that slightly less abhorrent practises could generate such extreme wealth.

    *I'd probably buy shares if it was listed / paid good dividends

    no worse than being a banker at look at the money they take home...
    Well she is the most well paid individual in the UK, so 'worse' in that respect. Also depends on your view of bankers.

    As I said - I have no issue with anyone making any sum of money. She's done absolutely incredible things with the company and she deserves her success. Hats off to her.

    I don't mind bankers (yes there are exceptions to prove the rule).
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,563
    lesfirth said:

    I never cease to be amazed that the punters, who think they are going to win, don't ask themselves where the £450m comes from.

    My thoughts exactly. Company turnover (assume this is money taken in before any wins paid out) was £2.81bn.

    She therefore took home 16.5% of total turnover. This must be an unheard of % for any other business of this size with 4000 employees - 3 other directors also took home 100s of millions, and operating profits after these payments were still nearly £200m.

    Suggests there is a phenomenal profit margin in that 2.81bn i.e. punters ain't winning much back from them - despite all the adverts showing people winning. Wonder if there is a case for false advertising - they should show the 19 times someone doesn't win, then the 1 where they do (or whatever the ratio is).

    There are rules what alcohol ads can infer in terms of success / associations etc - don't know if there are similar for gambling. All betting companies should have to put a fixed % of turnover into charities / orgs that work to deal with problem gambling.

  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,589
    BET365 does put a bit back - not nearly as much as her salary and she has launched a charitable foundation (hence her MBE).

    As I tried to say - I appear my stance is probably hypocritical which is why I raised it - my main wish is that more altruistic ventures could be quite so profitable as well.
  • schlepcyclingschlepcycling Posts: 1,603
    According to the BBC article their profit was just £194m. She’s paid more than the bosses of all the FTSE100 companies combined and earns £1.2m a day. The company also paid £85m into her charitable foundation.
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 17,783
    That's about £250m in tax and NI, isn't it?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,377 Lives Here
    edited 1 April

    According to the BBC article their profit was just £194m. She’s paid more than the bosses of all the FTSE100 companies combined and earns £1.2m a day. The company also paid £85m into her charitable foundation.

    This is Denise Coates right? She's the majority shareholder of a private company. She can do what she likes.

    I once worked for a firm. The owner set it up 15 years ago. No longer worked. Took 2/3rds of all profits, the rest was shared out on a formula basis.

    I was struggling to pay my rent in my first job and he'd come in bored every so often and talk to me about how he owned so many ferraris that he got flown over for free for day-long track days at Maranello.

    He owned it he could do what he liked.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,589
    Quite. Bit of a n0b to rub it in the employees faces, though. Unless for motivation....
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,377 Lives Here
    Mainly a nob.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,818
    lesfirth said:

    I never cease to be amazed that the punters, who think they are going to win, don't ask themselves where the £450m comes from.

    When the national lottery was first launched with its odds of something like14 million to 1 against of winning the jackpot in any week, some people called it a tax on stupidity. You could call this something similar.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,070
    Some people will never understand that hope and entertainment can be bought.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 46,818

    Some people will never understand that hope and entertainment can be bought.

    I would describe this as more of a short term rental.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156

    lesfirth said:

    I never cease to be amazed that the punters, who think they are going to win, don't ask themselves where the £450m comes from.

    My thoughts exactly. Company turnover (assume this is money taken in before any wins paid out) was £2.81bn.

    She therefore took home 16.5% of total turnover. This must be an unheard of % for any other business of this size with 4000 employees - 3 other directors also took home 100s of millions, and operating profits after these payments were still nearly £200m.

    Suggests there is a phenomenal profit margin in that 2.81bn i.e. punters ain't winning much back from them - despite all the adverts showing people winning. Wonder if there is a case for false advertising - they should show the 19 times someone doesn't win, then the 1 where they do (or whatever the ratio is).

    There are rules what alcohol ads can infer in terms of success / associations etc - don't know if there are similar for gambling. All betting companies should have to put a fixed % of turnover into charities / orgs that work to deal with problem gambling.

    of course its not false advertising - everyone knows you lise more than you win.

    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,070
    Stevo_666 said:

    Some people will never understand that hope and entertainment can be bought.

    I would describe this as more of a short term rental.
    A lot of entertainment is just short rental e.g. watching sport, going to the theatre
  • schlepcyclingschlepcycling Posts: 1,603

    According to the BBC article their profit was just £194m. She’s paid more than the bosses of all the FTSE100 companies combined and earns £1.2m a day. The company also paid £85m into her charitable foundation.

    This is Denise Coates right? She's the majority shareholder of a private company. She can do what she likes.
    Absolutely right, my comment was just meant to be a bit more info about the story I’m not disparaging her in any way. As you say she’s the major shareholder in a very successful UK based company and I assume the pay settlement is in her contract as it’s mostly salary rather than dividends.
    'Hello to Jason Isaacs'
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,070
    MattFalle said:



    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...

    Some people can. Colleagues of a friend of mine have the privilege of paying the special rate of commission to Betfair. It's either 20% or 60% of profits depending on just how profitable you are (compared to 5% for the normal person). That's mostly high frequency stuff though.

    I know several people who are banned from Bet365 for abusing promotions (taking money from Bet365) or just making too much.

    Meanwhile there is a whole industry in "matched betting"

    I bet for entertainment, so can't be bothered with the above although I would do the first category if I was capable.

  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,377 Lives Here

    According to the BBC article their profit was just £194m. She’s paid more than the bosses of all the FTSE100 companies combined and earns £1.2m a day. The company also paid £85m into her charitable foundation.

    This is Denise Coates right? She's the majority shareholder of a private company. She can do what she likes.
    Absolutely right, my comment was just meant to be a bit more info about the story I’m not disparaging her in any way. As you say she’s the major shareholder in a very successful UK based company and I assume the pay settlement is in her contract as it’s mostly salary rather than dividends.
    A better question is how comfortable she is that a significant proportion of the firm's profits come from problem gamblers, and whether she is comfortable that the firm is doing enough to protect people from problematic gambling and if there is enough resource for that.
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,070
    I should perhaps add it is hard to make money out of Bet365 because they ban you if you do. So that's not great.
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,589

    MattFalle said:



    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...

    Some people can. Colleagues of a friend of mine have the privilege of paying the special rate of commission to Betfair. It's either 20% or 60% of profits depending on just how profitable you are (compared to 5% for the normal person). That's mostly high frequency stuff though.

    I know several people who are banned from Bet365 for abusing promotions (taking money from Bet365) or just making too much.

    Meanwhile there is a whole industry in "matched betting"

    I bet for entertainment, so can't be bothered with the above although I would do the first category if I was capable.

    Someone mentioned matched betting on here about 4 years ago. I did my research and made about £5k, risk free.
  • MattFalleMattFalle Posts: 6,156

    According to the BBC article their profit was just £194m. She’s paid more than the bosses of all the FTSE100 companies combined and earns £1.2m a day. The company also paid £85m into her charitable foundation.

    This is Denise Coates right? She's the majority shareholder of a private company. She can do what she likes.
    Absolutely right, my comment was just meant to be a bit more info about the story I’m not disparaging her in any way. As you say she’s the major shareholder in a very successful UK based company and I assume the pay settlement is in her contract as it’s mostly salary rather than dividends.
    A better question is how comfortable she is that a significant proportion of the firm's profits come from problem gamblers, and whether she is comfortable that the firm is doing enough to protect people from problematic gambling and if there is enough resource for that.
    i would think that earni g that amount she doesn't care tbh.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,602

    MattFalle said:



    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...

    Some people can. Colleagues of a friend of mine have the privilege of paying the special rate of commission to Betfair. It's either 20% or 60% of profits depending on just how profitable you are (compared to 5% for the normal person). That's mostly high frequency stuff though.

    I know several people who are banned from Bet365 for abusing promotions (taking money from Bet365) or just making too much.

    Meanwhile there is a whole industry in "matched betting"

    I bet for entertainment, so can't be bothered with the above although I would do the first category if I was capable.

    are you saying the high rollers on Betfair pay between 20-60% commission?

    I used to play on it near the beginning and they used to tempt the big boys in with low rates to boost liquidity
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,070

    MattFalle said:



    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...

    Some people can. Colleagues of a friend of mine have the privilege of paying the special rate of commission to Betfair. It's either 20% or 60% of profits depending on just how profitable you are (compared to 5% for the normal person). That's mostly high frequency stuff though.

    I know several people who are banned from Bet365 for abusing promotions (taking money from Bet365) or just making too much.

    Meanwhile there is a whole industry in "matched betting"

    I bet for entertainment, so can't be bothered with the above although I would do the first category if I was capable.

    are you saying the high rollers on Betfair pay between 20-60% commission?

    I used to play on it near the beginning and they used to tempt the big boys in with low rates to boost liquidity
    It relates to frequency of trades and profitability, so not high rollers.

    https://support.betfair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6156

  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 14,602

    MattFalle said:



    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...

    Some people can. Colleagues of a friend of mine have the privilege of paying the special rate of commission to Betfair. It's either 20% or 60% of profits depending on just how profitable you are (compared to 5% for the normal person). That's mostly high frequency stuff though.

    I know several people who are banned from Bet365 for abusing promotions (taking money from Bet365) or just making too much.

    Meanwhile there is a whole industry in "matched betting"

    I bet for entertainment, so can't be bothered with the above although I would do the first category if I was capable.

    are you saying the high rollers on Betfair pay between 20-60% commission?

    I used to play on it near the beginning and they used to tempt the big boys in with low rates to boost liquidity
    It relates to frequency of trades and profitability, so not high rollers.

    https://support.betfair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6156

    is that to take money off bookies laying off bets?
  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,589

    BET365 does put a bit back - not nearly as much as her salary and she has launched a charitable foundation (hence her MBE).

    As I tried to say - I appear my stance is probably hypocritical which is why I raised it - my main wish is that more altruistic ventures could be quite so profitable as well.

    Like, say, Timpsons:

  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,070
    edited 1 April

    MattFalle said:



    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...

    Some people can. Colleagues of a friend of mine have the privilege of paying the special rate of commission to Betfair. It's either 20% or 60% of profits depending on just how profitable you are (compared to 5% for the normal person). That's mostly high frequency stuff though.

    I know several people who are banned from Bet365 for abusing promotions (taking money from Bet365) or just making too much.

    Meanwhile there is a whole industry in "matched betting"

    I bet for entertainment, so can't be bothered with the above although I would do the first category if I was capable.

    are you saying the high rollers on Betfair pay between 20-60% commission?

    I used to play on it near the beginning and they used to tempt the big boys in with low rates to boost liquidity
    It relates to frequency of trades and profitability, so not high rollers.

    https://support.betfair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/6156

    is that to take money off bookies laying off bets?
    No. They will lose in some markets. It is to take money off your hedge fund types that run bots that profit consistently in every market. As I said, it is invitation only, not something the casual player needs to worry about.
  • lesfirthlesfirth Posts: 1,205
    edited 1 April

    MattFalle said:



    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...

    Some people can. Colleagues of a friend of mine have the privilege of paying the special rate of commission to Betfair. It's either 20% or 60% of profits depending on just how profitable you are (compared to 5% for the normal person). That's mostly high frequency stuff though.

    I know several people who are banned from Bet365 for abusing promotions (taking money from Bet365) or just making too much.

    Meanwhile there is a whole industry in "matched betting"

    I bet for entertainment, so can't be bothered with the above although I would do the first category if I was capable.

    Someone mentioned matched betting on here about 4 years ago. I did my research and made about £5k, risk free.
    Why did you not carry on doing it?
  • elbowlohelbowloh Posts: 7,078

    BET365 does put a bit back - not nearly as much as her salary and she has launched a charitable foundation (hence her MBE).

    As I tried to say - I appear my stance is probably hypocritical which is why I raised it - my main wish is that more altruistic ventures could be quite so profitable as well.

    Like, say, Timpsons:

    Its alright, he's only making copies of your house and car keys....



    Only joking, i fully support helping ex-offenders get on their feet again and back in society.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
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  • shirley_bassoshirley_basso Posts: 4,589
    lesfirth said:

    MattFalle said:



    its just that some people delude themselves they can beat the system...

    Some people can. Colleagues of a friend of mine have the privilege of paying the special rate of commission to Betfair. It's either 20% or 60% of profits depending on just how profitable you are (compared to 5% for the normal person). That's mostly high frequency stuff though.

    I know several people who are banned from Bet365 for abusing promotions (taking money from Bet365) or just making too much.

    Meanwhile there is a whole industry in "matched betting"

    I bet for entertainment, so can't be bothered with the above although I would do the first category if I was capable.

    Someone mentioned matched betting on here about 4 years ago. I did my research and made about £5k, risk free.
    Why did you not carry on doing it?
    Generally speaking, the easy money is to be made using sign up bonuses with bookmakers. Thereafter it was more work and I didn't have the time so wasn't worth it. Had I been smarter I would have done it in my wife's name at her parents address as well and doubled it.

    I understand how it works, but I can't really explain it very well - but the important thing to remember is that it is risk free - regardless of what some people may think (and tell you), because the process involves placing two bets.

    If you want to know more check out profitaccumulator.
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