Advice on power meters
MrsR
Posts: 81
I think I understand that cycling is about carefully meting out power which makes sense to me as a runner. I can relate to it in the same way I’m careful to ensure I’m in the zone I’m scheduled to train in (eg lactate threshold, steady or easy/endurance) But as a runner, I’m familiar enough to feel the difference in effort levels to know if I’m going to run out of glycogen or if I’m happily fat burning (and the roughly corresponding pace). Am I right in thinking power meters is the best way to gauge this on a bike to avoid the miscalculation and associated bonk?
If so, how do I go about choosing one?
Thanks in advance for the advice 🙂
If so, how do I go about choosing one?
Thanks in advance for the advice 🙂
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Comments
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If you can feel the effort levels while running, you will probably be familiar with similar levels while cycling. Effort is still effort, after all.
If you're new to cycling, a power meter could possibly be the last thing you need right now.0 -
Thanks for the thought @imposter2.0 although am curious what drives your advice. I have been riding around on my road bike for about 15 years now with a little bit of racing in triathlons on it (in between having children - after I had my last baby, I focused on running exclusively). Power meters seem to have popped into the cycling world since I last looked at stuff although that was in the '00s. I still classify myself as a runner who rides as I ride so infrequently (although suspect this will change as a new bike is on the way
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sorry, I wrongly assumed you were new to cycling. If you've been riding for 15 years then I'm not sure what extra a power meter will offer you - unless you have some new fitness, performance or competition goals for which it might be useful.
By all means buy one, but without baseline figures or any meaningful analysis of the data it provides, it's not going to tell you much that you don't already know.0 -
Have a look at Xert. With a Garmin head unit, you can track what it calls MPA (your max power available) and determine in real time if your effort is sustainable, if you need to back off to recover a bit, or whether you can afford to go a bit harder. Xert is also great for tracking and improving your fitness and generally making sense of the data a power meter produces.
If you've got more than one bike , pedal based PMs are relatively easy to move around and the Favero Assioma ones have a great reputation.1 -
That’s what I wanted to know really. Are they really adding anything to the equation or not? For the added benefit they’re very pricey so that’s great advice. I may possibly race a bit or ride a few events but even so I’m not a numbers athlete. I tend to be motivated intrinsically rather than extrinsically and won’t look at my watch data until after a run to see if perception matched reality and for any fitness gains. Thanks very much @imposter2.0 Much appreciated. 🙌0
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I dont have one. be like giving a dog a Rubriks cube. But I can see why people have them (even if they are only riding on sundays). have to (be bothered) to interpret the data. This is a link to an elite Ironman someone I know coaches. bit overkill perhaps but lets you see data and what you can interpret from it.
http://www.srm.de/news/triathlon/ironman-cozumel-2019/0 -
I don't use a power meter, so what follows is based on my understanding, not on my objective experience.
If you use something like heart rate or perceived effort to train, then it will take into account the ebbs and flows of days when we feel great and days when we feel not so great - so a HR effort of e.g 2.5 will be a 2.5 effort on a good day and a 2.5 effort on a bad day - but I may be going faster or slower based on that effort level.
By contrast a power meter is far more objective - 200w is 200w and on one day that might feel easier to maintain than on another day, because of how we feel, how well rested we are, how well hydrated etc.
So I guess it depends how you prefer to monitor and train. I prefer to use HR and perceived effort.
Thanks @bobones for the link to Xert - I might give that a look. Does it need anything other than a Garmin and a HRM?0 -
You really need a power meter for Xert. A Garmin isn't a must, but they have Connect IQ apps for Garmin devices that allow you to see Xert metrics like MPA in real time when you're out on the road. They also have apps for Android devices such as the Karoo Hammerhead or a phone that you can uses instead of a Garmin. Unfortunately, there is no API for Wahoo head units to allow similar apps to be developed for them. None of this stuff is actually necessary to use Xert to monitor or improve your fitness however: you just need a PM and it will pick up your rides from Garmin Connect or Strava and give you training advice based on your goals and your current and historical performance.
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@amrushton Thanks for the reply. That link has confirmed to me that I am not the kind of athlete who is driven by the numbers
I didn't see watts/kg anywhere and would have thought that was more relevant than absolute watts? My husband's description of me when there is any hint of an incline was "like a rat up a sewer" which I attribute to my relative power to weight ratio being better than his (sometimes being small does pay off). A bit like looking at torque rather than bhp in a car.
Edited: spotted it hidden in there: 375w/kg.
@singleton I think with that really important point you have sealed it for me. Thank you for adding that. The reason I have been upgrading my bike (and educating myself on here) was to use my mum's legacy (she passed away suddenly three weeks ago
). There is absolutely no way to factor in emotional exhaustion and strain. It is a totally subjective thing. Possibly HRV might give an indication of the stress your body is under. But it is much easier to just gauge it with some mindful meditation at the start of the day and set the day's expectations accordingly. 0 -
I'm still at a loss as to why people feel like they need a power meter. For most people cycling is a bit of fun. An escape from daily life. A way to get fit and out into the countryside. All power meters do for most people is take away that release, create something to stress over and stop them enjoying their surroundings."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago2
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This is all a bit outside of my experience (fat, aged, armchair cyclist) but can you train to heart rate zones? If you know your max then zones fall into certain percentiles. Work to them?1
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Thanks for the suggestion @proto After reading lots of cycling articles I’ve come to that conclusion. Although my HR training involves RPE based on whether I can speak and, if so, how many words 🙂proto said:This is all a bit outside of my experience (fat, aged, armchair cyclist) but can you train to heart rate zones? If you know your max then zones fall into certain percentiles. Work to them?
Was also reading about FTP but decided that the way I ride is largely by feel, so I’ll keep it that way and just keep working that CV fitness and include some strength work to offset ostopenia.0 -
I agree, for me cycling is not primarily about sitting inside on a virtual race staring at a scrrn full of numbers, it's about being outside in the fresh air and I find it aids both my physical and mental well being.gsk82 said:I'm still at a loss as to why people feel like they need a power meter. For most people cycling is a bit of fun. An escape from daily life. A way to get fit and out into the countryside. All power meters do for most people is take away that release, create something to stress over and stop them enjoying their surroundings.
But I understand that some people want something different and want to get the maximum fitness benefit out of every training session - in which case indoor trainers and power meters can be very beneficial.
One other way to think about the difference between an HRM and a power meter (and I think I read this somewhere) is that a HRM measures your bodies input and a power meter measures your bodies output. For ultimate training and understanding you probably want both and be able to compare them.1 -
My 2ps worth - as a decent standard runner into my early 20s, and an ok cyclist since my early 30s (a while ago now...)
I was v familiar with HR coming over from running, and used that happily for several years - I wouldn't train to it as such, but it was handy to track fitness levels esp on a static trainer (either doing more for the same HR, or matching previous efforts with a lower HR). It was also useful when completing some big European sportives with mountain climbs, as I knew roughly what HR roughly equated to threshold (for long climbs) and what was too high.
In 2017 I got a single side 4iiii Crank based PM - which totally changed how I assessed rides afterwards - previously the main guide was how I felt plus what the average speed was (so similar to running). The difference between running and cycling though is the external factors of weather, route, wind, are amplified much more, and thus have an impact on speed - as does riding within a group. You can also freewheel a lot more at zero effort which has no equivalent in running. Therefore you can ride faster than you might have done, but your overall effort will be less than you think maybe (although average HR would show some reflection of this).
I don't tend to 'ride to power' on rides but am interested in what it says afterwards, and it's again useful for tracking fitness improvements - if that's of interest. Appreciate for some it's completely irrelevant, and of course you can pick and choose what info to use and when, depending on your goals or just your mood that day!
The thing to always remember with HR is it's personal, 2 athletes of identical build / weight and roughly equal ability might have completely diff min / max HRs, so comparisons to others are pointless.
Power is nearer to absolute if all other factors (weight, shape, height, aerodynamics, conditions) are the same - i.e. a rider putting out 300W will be going faster than one putting out 250 on the same route at the same time. However our 300W rider might have a HR of 150 and the 250 one a HR of 170.
W/Kg is relevant for climbing, but much less so on the flat - power and aerodynamics play a much bigger role there. There'll be more knowledgeable people than me on here who can equate the differences being 15kg heavier but 100W more powerful has on the flat vs. climbing a 5% hill.
Either way - if you're a data junkie or just like looking at fields and the sky as you meander about, the main thing is to enjoy what you do!1 -
Not got a power meter, never had one & I'd put myself in the 50/50 category when it comes to data. I like to have it to look at but I'm not a slave to it & the main purpose of me riding my bike is to enjoy it.
I'd like to try one just for my own curiosity really to see what they're like & I think it would come in useful on a longer ride or up a climb for pacing but if I'm honest I'm reluctant to shell out the kind of money they are for what would be for me a small benefit.
If you are serious about your training though they are must these days.1 -
Power meters need not be that expensive... If your new bike is Shimano you can get left hand crankset 4iiis new for as low as £200 sometimes, second hand even less.
Try it - if you find the data useful, keep it, if you don't sell on and you won't have lost much.
When first got mine I "just rode normally" then looked at the data afterwards. That was interesting and made me make subtle changes (e.g. riding a bit harder on the flat and easier on climbs). That increased average speed for very little change in effort or fitness.
Even if you're not super serious about training in zones, that doesn't mean they won't give useful information. And if you have one and you later decide you are, you're all tooled up and ready to go.
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super_davo said:
Power meters need not be that expensive... If your new bike is Shimano you can get left hand crankset 4iiis new for as low as £200 sometimes, second hand even less.
Try it - if you find the data useful, keep it, if you don't sell on and you won't have lost much.
When first got mine I "just rode normally" then looked at the data afterwards. That was interesting and made me make subtle changes (e.g. riding a bit harder on the flat and easier on climbs). That increased average speed for very little change in effort or fitness.
Even if you're not super serious about training in zones, that doesn't mean they won't give useful information. And if you have one and you later decide you are, you're all tooled up and ready to go.
Must admit I have thought along those lines more than once. I do keep an eye on eBay every now & then but never taken the plunge.0 -
I mean I do both and I look at them differently.singleton said:
I agree, for me cycling is not primarily about sitting inside on a virtual race staring at a scrrn full of numbers, it's about being outside in the fresh air and I find it aids both my physical and mental well being.gsk82 said:I'm still at a loss as to why people feel like they need a power meter. For most people cycling is a bit of fun. An escape from daily life. A way to get fit and out into the countryside. All power meters do for most people is take away that release, create something to stress over and stop them enjoying their surroundings.
But I understand that some people want something different and want to get the maximum fitness benefit out of every training session - in which case indoor trainers and power meters can be very beneficial.
One other way to think about the difference between an HRM and a power meter (and I think I read this somewhere) is that a HRM measures your bodies input and a power meter measures your bodies output. For ultimate training and understanding you probably want both and be able to compare them.
I'd basically divide my cycling into 3 categories:
Training: Primarily indoors but also outdoors in the summer (much easier to do focussed training rides indoors) - data obviously essential
Outdoor rides, social/exploring rides: Data not important during the ride, just for reference later. I did used to spend a lot of time looking at data on these rides and it did start to detract from the experience (I don't even have it showing on the map screen on my Garmin any more). It is still useful to have the data just because then you can use it with your training data to track load and fatigue over time.
Racing (indoors): Data is important but more retrospectively than during the race (except TTs/TTTs which are my strongest event - pacing is just as important there as it is outside). If I am getting dropped and can't push any harder, it doesn't really matter what the on screen power number is, I'm still getting dropped...
To your last point, yes it is useful to be able to compare both HR and power - as my training is based on power zones, I need to know that the zones are reasonably accurate. I usually know if I am getting fitter when my HR for a given power level starts trending down (obviously it is sometimes higher or lower day to day for various reasons - stress, sleep, caffeine etc). Because I have been doing it for 5+ years now I normally pretty much know what my FTP is going to be without testing based on what my HR trends are like for different power levels.0 -
Yeah, agreedddraver said:You re asking a lot of questions about a bike you haven't even got yet (or just barely got). To be honest I'd lay off the google and just ride it for a few months before worrying about any of this stuff...
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Super useful info especially from @yorkshireraw @bobmcstuff @super_davo so thank you for taking the time to set it out like that. Much appreciate those insights. I will bookmark this for the future but, as I said, I train by feel so will do that once I get the new bike and then just bear this in mind going forwards.
@ddraver no harm in asking questions. Better informed than uninformed, especially at that price!0
