2021 predictions
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rick_chasey said:
Is it not just a budget thing?
Jumbo seem very Dutch, ineos are very Brit, etc etc.
Ineos have as many South/Central Americans as Brits these days. Eight of eachTwitter: @RichN950 -
Yeah OK sky fanboi.
Point remains.
French teams are provincial as they don't have the budget not to be.0 -
I thought received wisdom was that there are a lot of overpriced average French riders? The whole thing about a few halfway decent results in the Tour and you can coast in a French team for the rest of your career etc.rick_chasey said:Yeah OK sky fanboi.
Point remains.
French teams are provincial as they don't have the budget not to be.
To the point about Sunweb - what actually is their budget compared to the French teams?0 -
Jumbo Visma might seem very Dutch, but over a third of their riders are non Dutch speaking and the Dutch all speak English if necessaryWarning No formatter is installed for the format0
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TGH has to be in with a good shout of another GT given the opportunity and a bit of fortune.0
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Does Alpecin-Fenix have a bigger budget than the French teams? Seems like they did better in 2019 & 2020. Just blaming the budget seems rather simplistic.rick_chasey said:Yeah OK sky fanboi.
Point remains.
French teams are provincial as they don't have the budget not to be.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
...as opposed to blaming innate Frenchness?m.r.m. said:0 -
Almost half of both the AG2R and FDJ squads are not French. Considerably more than half of the Cofidis squad are non-French riders. But anyway...No_Ta_Doctor said:Jumbo Visma might seem very Dutch, but over a third of their riders are non Dutch speaking and the Dutch all speak English if necessary
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5 of the non French riders on FDJ are Swiss or Canadian, though I don't know that they're all natively French speaking.DeadCalm said:
3 of the 20 odd DSs across FDJ and AG2R aren't French.
Cofidis have done a lot of restructuring in the last few seasons, and their results have improved drastically. Can't be arsed to see if their roster nationality has changed in that time...Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I concede your point on DSs. On the riders, I think you are quibbling.No_Ta_Doctor said:
3 of the 20 odd DSs across FDJ and AG2R aren't French.
Cofidis have done a lot of restructuring in the last few seasons, and their results have improved drastically. Can't be arsed to see if their roster nationality has changed in that time...
It's a sample of one, so won't prove anything either way, but it'll be interesting to see how Bardet gets on under the supposedly innovative DSM regime. He's been training at Teide, something I guess he wouldn't have done at AG2R. As a fan of him and the team, I hope it works out.1 -
Yeah, I'd love to see Bardet get some big time success. Possibly worth noting that the most successful French rider for many years is on a Belgian team...DeadCalm said:
It's a sample of one, so won't prove anything either way, but it'll be interesting to see how Bardet gets on under the supposedly innovative DSM regime. He's been training at Teide, something I guess he wouldn't have done at AG2R. As a fan of him and the team, I hope it works out.
My point was never "French riders are rubbish", just to be clear, but that French teams tend to be culturally French, which is harder to integrate into than international teams that use a lot of English. Part of that hypothesis comes from listening to the current crop of Danes on why they're successful nationally in the WT (most of them aren't world beaters, yet). Aside from being well trained and professional from an early age they also talk about being fluent in English and comfortable in an international environment. But it's noticeable that they're mainly on more international teams.
Not sure whether it's also meaningful that quite a few ride on teams that have Danish DSs as well.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Fair point. It's probably tied to the importance of the Tour and the French teams receiving invites they don't deserve when judged by wins. They aren't really doing themselves any favours; remember the Bardet interview a few years back when he was supposed to be a genuine rival to Froome/Contador etc. where he stated that he doesn't really practice time trialling, because he doesn't enjoy it? All the while when that was his main weakness that always put him out of contention at every GT.rick_chasey said:
So, while budget helps the most, teams with lower budgets regularly do better than the French teams. That being said, Katusha has been rather lacklustre as well for example. Then again, who has actually been worse than Cofidis in the last 5 years?PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20231 -
I was interested to see what Quintana's race schedule was, turns out the only GT that Arkea-Samsic get to ride is the Tour due to Wild Card allocations.
Within the context of the discussion above I thought it was interesting that their press release on Tour Alps-Maritime and Haut Var emphasised that they had riders from 5 different nationalities on the squad for those races, in addition to French they have Colombienne (Nairo Quintana, Miguel Florez), Italienne (Diego Rosa) et Belge (Amaury Capiot) et Lukasz Owsian (Pologne).
Also seeing a shift away from French only squads at AG2R-Citroen and even Total Direct Energies (EBH, Terpstra etc). So think its fair to say that the French teams are also evolving...0 -
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Who's do you thinks going to win one from that team?rick_chasey said:AG2R are a cobbled classic powerhouse if their roster is to go by.
"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
So they have GvA, Jungels, Naesen, Gallopin - that's a pretty good foursome going into it.gsk82 said:1 -
I put Benoît Cosnefroy way above Gallopin these days.rick_chasey said:
Aurélien Paret-Peintre could also be a dark horse in lumpy ones."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Fair. I thought about including him but I don't remember him being a cobbled guy but more of an ardenne guy.blazing_saddles said:
Aurélien Paret-Peintre could also be a dark horse in lumpy ones.0 -
What about Gallopin, though? His record in both areas isn't exactly stellar.rick_chasey said:
1 top 10 finish in both Lombardia and Milan San Remo.
Mostly DNFs in the cobbled races.
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/tony-gallopin/statistics/top-classic-results"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Hopefully they will also point out that as a highly paid professional who's job is to perform in stage races, riding his TT bike every so often would help as well.DeadCalm said:
It's a sample of one, so won't prove anything either way, but it'll be interesting to see how Bardet gets on under the supposedly innovative DSM regime. He's been training at Teide, something I guess he wouldn't have done at AG2R. As a fan of him and the team, I hope it works out.
EDIT - as m.r.m. has alluded to above...0 -
He's had a top 10 in E3 hasn't he?blazing_saddles said:
1 top 10 finish in both Lombardia and Milan San Remo.
Mostly DNFs in the cobbled races.
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/tony-gallopin/statistics/top-classic-results0 -
They've got a decent team to get some placings. But I don't see any of them winning a classic or monument.rick_chasey said:
Jungels will probably fade away without Quick Steps blocking, GVA is passed it and Naesen isn't a winner."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0 -
A 6th in 2014. To go along with a couple of DNFs and a couple of outside the top 20 finishes. Not a great deal to shout about reallyrick_chasey said:Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
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you'd take that AG2R team over WvA or MVDP?rick_chasey said:Fair enough.
I still think having 3 jacks is better than 1 ace in a cobbled classic.0 -
Have none of you, bar Rick, paid any attention to Quick Step's tactics over the past five seasons? If AG2R can deploy similar tactics and open up the race and get their 'jacks' in offensive moves then they can neuter the big names behind. They've quietly assembled a really strong cobbled classics squad and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they manage to win big this spring.0
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It won't work if quick step still have 6 men in the front group. Like it hasn't worked for anyone else with a group of second tier riders such as Sky or BMC.andyp said:Have none of you, bar Rick, paid any attention to Quick Step's tactics over the past five seasons? If AG2R can deploy similar tactics and open up the race and get their 'jacks' in offensive moves then they can neuter the big names behind. They've quietly assembled a really strong cobbled classics squad and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they manage to win big this spring.
Not that I have anything against them. I hope they do well. I hope everyone other than quick step does well in the spring."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago1 -
Jumbo vs AG2R yeah I'd take AG2R assuming they don't have injuries. MvdP's team is basically him and Dries De Bondt and Dries is good but not the one.yorkshireraw said:
It's a great combo at AG2R - Jungels can go from long and you would expect either Naesen or GvA to make the proper selection - they also know the courses so well - their expertise and their commitment to that part of the season will rub off on the rest of the team.
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