Easy Question
Comments
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It means he can reach the bars😉1
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more aero, power transferance, more TT like poition, more aggressive, change of hip/bb angle, moving contact points due to soreness/boredom......
#ontherivet.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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There are limits on how far forward the saddle can be - the UCI mandates a set back of 5cm.
Triathletes (not following UCI regs) will have the saddle set much further forwards - look up Ironman bike positions.
Being further forward means you can get lower/flatter (=more aero) while keeping your hip angle open (=better power - if you imagine sitting far back on the saddle with a flat back, your hip angle will be really tight which reduces your power output).
Some riders e.g. Tony Martin have put sandpaper on the tip of the saddle to help them sit very far forwards.1 -
It's literally riding on the rivet.0
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He paid the price in a most painful way though.bobmcstuff said:
Some riders e.g. Tony Martin have put sandpaper on the tip of the saddle to help them sit very far forwards.
#notrecommended
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
But as most saddles no longer have rivets. I guess not everyone knows what that means.1
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Or the word literally 😉webboo said:But as most saddles no longer have rivets. I guess not everyone knows what that means.
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Isn't riding on the front of the saddle less aero? How could you get a flatter back in less space?
Riding on the front allows you to get more power out. Probably due to something to do with angles"Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago2 -
It allows you to get a flatter back *at the same time* as keeping your hip angle open.gsk82 said:Isn't riding on the front of the saddle less aero? How could you get a flatter back in less space?
Riding on the front allows you to get more power out. Probably due to something to do with angles0 -
Body further forward too with elbows on the bars in the case of a TT, plus what Bob says.gsk82 said:Isn't riding on the front of the saddle less aero? How could you get a flatter back in less space?
Riding on the front allows you to get more power out. Probably due to something to do with anglesThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Look how far forward he is- if he was sat back on the saddle he would be effectively kneeing himself in the chest every pedal stroke with a flat back like that...
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This must be where I'm going wrong. I thought I was doing well for my stomach to be flat enough for my thighs to hit my chest. 🤣bobmcstuff said:
Look how far forward he is- if he was sat back on the saddle he would be effectively kneeing himself in the chest every pedal stroke with a flat back like that...I never race, never TT, and never have my elbows on the bars. 😉The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Yeah it must mean you are getting your back flat, but such a tight hip angle will have a big effect on the power you can get out.pblakeney said:
This must be where I'm going wrong. I thought I was doing well for my stomach to be flat enough for my thighs to hit my chest. 🤣bobmcstuff said:
Look how far forward he is- if he was sat back on the saddle he would be effectively kneeing himself in the chest every pedal stroke with a flat back like that...I never race, never TT, and never have my elbows on the bars. 😉
Most people see a reduction in watts in the TT position - it's just that it's massively outweighed by the aero benefit, so overall it is still much faster.0 -
The bulk of your power is generated in the glutes. The legs transmit and use that power. The better the glutes and big leg muscles ( quads ) are aligned, the more efficiently the power is transferred and used. Shifting forward gives better alignment, and mechanical efficiency, especially when you add in the effect on efficiency of increasing contact points with the bike whilst seated, meaning with a super long saddle you can get better power, and way better efficiency without having to stand up. It’s also usually easier to hold a better aerodynamic shape if you’re further forward and seated as well. A fair few years back, one or two teams tried using saddles who’s noses extended way further forward than they normally would do, but the UCI put a stop to that pretty quickly, and introduced a law to limit saddle sizes / lengths.0
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I was more impressed by my stomach being gone than any speed increases. 😉bobmcstuff said:
Yeah it must mean you are getting your back flat, but such a tight hip angle will have a big effect on the power you can get out.pblakeney said:
This must be where I'm going wrong. I thought I was doing well for my stomach to be flat enough for my thighs to hit my chest. 🤣bobmcstuff said:
Look how far forward he is- if he was sat back on the saddle he would be effectively kneeing himself in the chest every pedal stroke with a flat back like that...I never race, never TT, and never have my elbows on the bars. 😉
Most people see a reduction in watts in the TT position - it's just that it's massively outweighed by the aero benefit, so overall it is still much faster.
Then there is w/kg too. We are waaaayyy o/t.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I’m gonna go and buy a super long saddle so I can get those extra watts.brundonbianchi said:The bulk of your power is generated in the glutes. The legs transmit and use that power. The better the glutes and big leg muscles ( quads ) are aligned, the more efficiently the power is transferred and used. Shifting forward gives better alignment, and mechanical efficiency, especially when you add in the effect on efficiency of increasing contact points with the bike whilst seated, meaning with a super long saddle you can get better power, and way better efficiency without having to stand up. It’s also usually easier to hold a better aerodynamic shape if you’re further forward and seated as well. A fair few years back, one or two teams tried using saddles who’s noses extended way further forward than they normally would do, but the UCI put a stop to that pretty quickly, and introduced a law to limit saddle sizes / lengths.
What length do you recommend?0 -
MF read this piece of Damascean prose and is currently outside riveting his skateboard to his saddle so he can have both a super long saddle and be riding on the rivet to get double the power increase.gethinceri said:
I’m gonna go and buy a super long saddle so I can get those extra watts.brundonbianchi said:The bulk of your power is generated in the glutes. The legs transmit and use that power. The better the glutes and big leg muscles ( quads ) are aligned, the more efficiently the power is transferred and used. Shifting forward gives better alignment, and mechanical efficiency, especially when you add in the effect on efficiency of increasing contact points with the bike whilst seated, meaning with a super long saddle you can get better power, and way better efficiency without having to stand up. It’s also usually easier to hold a better aerodynamic shape if you’re further forward and seated as well. A fair few years back, one or two teams tried using saddles who’s noses extended way further forward than they normally would do, but the UCI put a stop to that pretty quickly, and introduced a law to limit saddle sizes / lengths.
What length do you recommend?
#yetmoremoretripefromthekingoftripe.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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In fact, BB's theory is so correct that no one makes short and stubby saddles that are currently the thing to use because why would anyone make them as they are currently the thing to use.
Oh.
#short'n'stubby.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Apart from TT saddlesMattFalle said:In fact, BB's theory is so correct that no one makes short and stubby saddles that are currently the thing to use because why would anyone make them as they are currently the thing to use.
Oh.
#short'n'stubby0 -
Turn your seatpost round the other way...0
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OK, I've read the arguments and I don't understand if you move forward on the saddle how do you get more aero? Also approximately how many extra watts are produced by shifting 20, 40 or 60mm forward? Finally, if you're not interested in the regs / racing / UCI why is a more forward position not the norm in a bike fit?0
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I suppose the answer to the last point is that the most comfortable position and the most aero are not the same thing.0
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And all those other ones that are currently en vogue because they are a cross between a TT saddle and a trad road saddle.elbowloh said:
Apart from TT saddlesMattFalle said:In fact, BB's theory is so correct that no one makes short and stubby saddles that are currently the thing to use because why would anyone make them as they are currently the thing to use.
Oh.
#short'n'stubby
#oh
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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This and coupled with the fact the no matter how FAST they think they are at their local club their flexibility is tat and normal saddle shape and the average bod not wanting sandpaper on their saddle and not having core strength to hold the positioneven though they ride on the FAST chain gang.mrb123 said:I suppose the answer to the last point is that the most comfortable position and the most aero are not the same thing.
Stuff like that
#theyaren’tPROthey’rejustabunchofclubbies
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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It allows you to combine being aero with having an open hip angle... like I've said about five times...Sutton_Rider said:OK, I've read the arguments and I don't understand if you move forward on the saddle how do you get more aero? Also approximately how many extra watts are produced by shifting 20, 40 or 60mm forward? Finally, if you're not interested in the regs / racing / UCI why is a more forward position not the norm in a bike fit?
It is the norm in ironman etc where they aren't constrained by UCI rules. I guess for the rest of us, we don't have tri bars to rest on so it won't be very comfortable.0 -
MF said it first up top.bobmcstuff said:
It allows you to combine being aero with having an open hip angle... like I've said about five times...Sutton_Rider said:OK, I've read the arguments and I don't understand if you move forward on the saddle how do you get more aero? Also approximately how many extra watts are produced by shifting 20, 40 or 60mm forward? Finally, if you're not interested in the regs / racing / UCI why is a more forward position not the norm in a bike fit?
It is the norm in ironman etc where they aren't constrained by UCI rules. I guess for the rest of us, we don't have tri bars to rest on so it won't be very comfortable.
#listentoMF.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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That's why everyone is using stubby saddles, and all major manufacturers are releasing new ranges of them.brundonbianchi said:The bulk of your power is generated in the glutes. The legs transmit and use that power. The better the glutes and big leg muscles ( quads ) are aligned, the more efficiently the power is transferred and used. Shifting forward gives better alignment, and mechanical efficiency, especially when you add in the effect on efficiency of increasing contact points with the bike whilst seated, meaning with a super long saddle you can get better power, and way better efficiency without having to stand up. It’s also usually easier to hold a better aerodynamic shape if you’re further forward and seated as well. A fair few years back, one or two teams tried using saddles who’s noses extended way further forward than they normally would do, but the UCI put a stop to that pretty quickly, and introduced a law to limit saddle sizes / lengths.
I swear all your knowledge is like 15 years old, but at the same time is just new to you.1
