Weird Tubeless Pressure Thing

waddlie

Installed new Conti 5000 TLs on Hunt 4 Season wheels a couple of weeks ago. All seemed to go to plan but when inflating with the track pump something’s going wrong. The tyres are properly seated and inflate ok but after each stroke (?) the pressure gauge goes back down to 0 and it all just feels a bit... wrong. Apologies for the vagueness - anyone got any ideas?

whyamihere

Is the tyre getting firmer? If so, your gauge is broken. If not, how long does it take to go flat again? Can you feel/hear air escaping, or if you hold the wheel underwater, can you see bubbles escaping?

david37

valve tastic.

but in anycase road tubeless is a marketing solution to a problem that doesnt exist

MattFalle

Unfortunately Hunts are known for lots of problems and the tubeless seating is one.

Are they new from Hunt? Can you return.

Hunt's marketing is great, unfortunately there product: not so much.

#soz,butthey'recrap

MattFalle

david37 said:

valve tastic.

but in anycase road tubeless is a marketing solution to a problem that doesnt exist

this

#wellsaidthatman

thecycleclinic

No it isn't. Road tubeless offer practical benefits for me and many people i know. Generally the problems people encounter are due to

1) user error
2) tyres that are shit at being tubeless i.e user error in picking them
3) rims that are shit at being tubeless, i.e user error in believing the manufacturer.
4) shit sealants although some good sealants are not suitable for some tyres generally the very porous ones.

Of course there is manufacturer error too but in general tubeless woes are due to user error or shit products or tyres used i conditions they are not supposed to be used in i.e veloflex corsa tlr used in winter #asking for it. Same goes for schwalve pro ones.

Why use threads to slag of a technology many get on with where the OP was asking a question about his pump.

MattFalle

Because its a solution to a problem that doesn't exist which causes more problems in itself. And Hunts are, well, tbh,abitshit.

Malcolm, we like you. Don't do an Ugo.

#stayrealtothecause

shortfall

I think the industry needs to get its act together and standardise sizes of tyres and rims which would be a huge help with tubeless. There are too many mismatch rim/tyre combos that veer between being ridiculously tight to the point where some tyres are so hard to mount that the user gives up, or so slack that there are problems inflating then keeping them sealed or secure on the rim in the event of a puncture that doesn't seal. I've ran tubeless for around 3 years now and have no plans to revert to tubes but they need a bit more knowledge and technique than tubed set ups which is where a lot of folks fall down. Same as tubulars I guess in the sense they can be a faff if you don't know what you're doing but worth it if you do. I mean if I read one more thread on here where people are spending ages at the side of the road removing the valve and sticking tubes in when the sealant hasn't worked! Stick a worm in FFS!!!! It takes like 2 minutes!!!!
+1 to the previous poster though, we like Malcolm.👍

First.Aspect

Aren't you just describing a leak between the valve stem and the pump adapter?

skeetam

First.Aspect said:

Aren't you just describing a leak between the valve stem and the pump adapter?

That's what I thought and I own this combo

thecycleclinic

MattFalle said:

Because its a solution to a problem that doesn't exist which causes more problems in itself. And Hunts are, well, tbh,abitshit.

Malcolm, we like you. Don't do an Ugo.

#stayrealtothecause

Well i get on with tubeless and the problem i had with clincher is running out of tubes. Carrying 4 was not alway practical and it what i needed to do some days. Also a tubeless tyre (the one i use anyway) tend to have longer wear life than comparable clincher or offer better grip or comfort. In most comparative cases i get all three. So yes there is a benefit. Not everyone may get it but i do and so do others.

So claiming tubeless is a solution in search of a problem maybe true for you but it is not for me and others. Thats my point.

brundonbianchi

thecycleclinic said:

MattFalle said:

Because its a solution to a problem that doesn't exist which causes more problems in itself. And Hunts are, well, tbh,abitshit.

Malcolm, we like you. Don't do an Ugo.

#stayrealtothecause

Well i get on with tubeless and the problem i had with clincher is running out of tubes. Carrying 4 was not alway practical and it what i needed to do some days. Also a tubeless tyre (the one i use anyway) tend to have longer wear life than comparable clincher or offer better grip or comfort. In most comparative cases i get all three. So yes there is a benefit. Not everyone may get it but i do and so do others.

So claiming tubeless is a solution in search of a problem maybe true for you but it is not for me and others. Thats my point.

I’m ‘one foot in, one foot out’ as far as road tubeless goes. They can be made to work, and when they do, they are a good idea, but they can be a pain in the posterior, and become an unnecessary faff. If you get them to work, they are worth it, if you don’t get them to work, they’re a pain. I use tubeless on my off road bikes, because they really are very useful, as the low pressures with no pinch flats is a god send, but I only have tubeless on one of my road bikes.

thecycleclinic

Tubeless problems happen for particular reasons. Its not because the technology is flawed. Sometime the implementation is flawed in that the products has not been made to a good specification but that requires more knowledge on part of the customer to know what they are buying and how the rim tyre and sealant choosen work together, what problems might be encountered and how to solve them or even avoid them (often by different product choices. Its an experience thing.

dangardner27

The problem is that the level of knowledge required to make the right choices re tubeless, precludes the vast majority.

For example does anyone know whether Vittoria Corsa TLR’s should work with A Force rims and then what sealant to use?

iso2000

Think this is just a case of sealant being in the valve stem or the valve itself being dirty. The force of the air from the pump pushes the sealant out the way and inflates the tyre but instead of the air going back down to pressurise the gauge when pulling the pump handle up, a flap of sealant seals the hole so you get a zero reading.

A similar thing happens with dirty valves and tubes so that the valve only works one way.

But then what do I know? I have used tubeless and Hunt wheels for years.

david37

thecycleclinic said:

Tubeless problems happen for particular reasons. Its not because the technology is flawed. Sometime the implementation is flawed in that the products has not been made to a good specification but that requires more knowledge on part of the customer to know what they are buying and how the rim tyre and sealant choosen work together, what problems might be encountered and how to solve them or even avoid them (often by different product choices. Its an experience thing.

So what Malcom is saying is that tubeless might be useful for some people but the vast majority will have to experiment with expensive combinations of tyres, sealant and wheels until they get something that works.

It's a Very Expensive experience thing.

thecycleclinic

The above really. Use the experience who have done the hard work rather than believe the marketing which does lead to dead ends.

Vittoria corsa tlr tyres are not ones that would ever use tubeless. The tyre is too porous. Caffe latex can seal them just but has trouble then fixing holes. Orange seal works better. Maxalami sealant cant seal the very porous tyre.

Porous tyres are ones i try to avoid personally, they are ticking time bombs and gain a fair bit of weight by the time you have got them sealed. They can also spontaneously spring a leak. Thats happened before and it annoying mid ride.

The tyre fits fine to a force rims but should never be removed unless your replacing. The amount of bead stretch precludes them being used again as they will be hard to re seat.

The only road tubeless tyre vittoria make thats any good for day to day riding is the rubino pro tlr. These are actually reliable and not very porous.

If you want a reliable tyre for day to day riding that grips better than a corsa and is nearly as comfortable then its the IRC formula pro rbcc

elbowloh

thecycleclinic said:

The above really. Use the experience who have done the hard work rather than believe the marketing which does lead to dead ends.

Vittoria corsa tlr tyres are not ones that would ever use tubeless. The tyre is too porous. Caffe latex can seal them just but has trouble then fixing holes. Orange seal works better. Maxalami sealant cant seal the very porous tyre.

Porous tyres are ones i try to avoid personally, they are ticking time bombs and gain a fair bit of weight by the time you have got them sealed.

The tyre fits fine to a force rims but should never be removed unless your replacing. The amount of bead stretch precludes them being used again as they will be hard to re seat.

The only road tubeless tyre vittoria make thats any good is the rubino pro tlr. These are actually reliable and not very porous.

Have you been on the internet before? 😉

david37

2020 7,400 miles uk gp4000s mk 2 zero punctures. 2 sets of tyres though mostly southwest, Wales and wiltshire.

EDIT 90psi on front 100 on rear. NB no issue with fillings.

MattFalle

Past 5 years, communtin', trainin' racin', etapin', Uk, France, Italy, Conti Sprinter tubs and some Vittoria thingie tubs in all weathers: two punctures, 1 from a thorn repaired with a can of foam, one from the tub being worn out repaired with a packet of scratchings and a couple of pints of ale whilst waiting for team support car to drive the mile ftom home. All run at a squillion brazilian psi because MF is Italian and that's how we ride them

4 years of trail leading on his cx bike on whatever cx tyres and tubes Planet X had going cheapest at the time, 80psi ish, 1 puncture repaired in the sun whilst flirting with a little cutey nurse.

MF thinks that this whole tubeless lark is just far to complicated and unnecessary tbh....

#sticksomefoamin.it'llbefine
#tubs.propertyres

wicked2627

I’ve been doing a lot of tubeless research and after getting 2 punctures a few weeks ago took the plunge. I have Roval C38 ‘tubeless ready’ rims and bought Muc Off valves, stans sealant and GP5000’s. Even bought the Stans dart plug tool. However there’s too much trial and error.

Got the tyre onto one of the rims fine and it held the pressure without any sealant. However the second kept leaking air out of the drainage hole in the sidewall. This could have been the valve but couldn’t fix it. Didn’t want to put sealant in as read that it could start leaking into the rim and coming out of that hole. Maybe the tape needs replacing but I haven’t got time for that and these rims have got it factory installed.

So returned the lot and just bought some wider tougher tyres for the winter and back to tubes. No fussing. Get a flat - just replace or repair the tube. As annoying as it was having 2 punctures, that was after 3k miles so not unexpected.

Maybe I’ll change my mind in a few years but I agree that tubeless seems to have its own problems. If you have lots of time on your hands then go for it but it’s not for me as I want everything to work first time.

waddlie

Thanks for those of you who had managed to offer some useful advice - I’ll give the valves etc a good sort out tomorrow.

Not sure why the hate for Hunts - they’ve managed to be genuinely cheap, light and strong.

I’m running tubeless because Hunt offered to do all the installation dickery when I was upgrading the wheels anyway and thought I’d give them a go. Not had a single tubeless issue until I needed to replace the tyres and it’s been a bit of a faff. No desire to go back to tubes though.

As for TL being a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist - you can say the same about carbon frames, disc brakes, Di2 and pretty much every other cycling innovation from the last 20 years...

wicked2627

waddlie said:

As for TL being a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist - you can say the same about carbon frames, disc brakes, Di2 and pretty much every other cycling innovation from the last 20 years...

Carbon = stiffer and lighter. Di2 = precise shifting. Discs = stronger breaking and less affected by water. They have their own features such as squeaky brakes or frames not absorbing any vibrations but they work as advertised straight out of the box.

Whereas this thread shows tubeless is a faf. My example should’ve worked as I’m using the same tyres and wheels that Matt Loveridge used in his Bikeradar review of my bike but it was leaking and it’s hard to work out why.

dangardner27

It's a faf for sure. It's a lot of wedge to spend on finding out the particular combo you have won't work. My Corsa's are now heavy tubed clinchers if I want to use them. All very frustrating.