thursday quantum fields lead inevitably to pineapple

pinno

veronese68 said:

oxoman said:

I reckon CB has one of the devils tools, an ebike.

Saw a cargo ebike in Kingston today, it was 'kin huge and looked like it was made from girders. Needed a motor did that.

Yeah, I see the irony.

MattFalle

Cargobike said:

I used to own a "massage parlour" in Crewe, just down the road from the train station.

One of the owners of another parlour on the same road sent Manchester gangsters round as we were taking all the trade, as we were bringing in better girls from outside of the area as the internet was taking off and recruitment got easier, threatening to put me in a body bag.

Having had a cleaning company on the Isle of Man that had attracted the attention of Liverpool gangsters who thought I was taking their profits there too, I opted to leave pronto.

Once bitten, twice shy

Crewe massage parlour, top floor, building opposite the Earl of Crewe on station road and the sandwich shop that did breakfast bageuttes? Hartleys or something similar?

on top of the Indian shop that sold commercial amounts of Bombay mix from big plastic containers?

The MFs used to live in Bedford Road by Bargain Booze and also on Gresty Road next to the chip shop opposite the footy stadium.

Stevo_666

MattFalle said:

Cargobike said:

I used to own a "massage parlour" in Crewe, just down the road from the train station.

One of the owners of another parlour on the same road sent Manchester gangsters round as we were taking all the trade, as we were bringing in better girls from outside of the area as the internet was taking off and recruitment got easier, threatening to put me in a body bag.

Having had a cleaning company on the Isle of Man that had attracted the attention of Liverpool gangsters who thought I was taking their profits there too, I opted to leave pronto.

Once bitten, twice shy

Crewe massage parlour, top floor, building opposite the Earl of Crewe on station road and the sandwich shop that did breakfast bageuttes? Hartleys or something similar?

on top of the Indian shop that sold commercial amounts of Bombay mix from big plastic containers?

The MFs used to live in Bedford Road by Bargain Booze and also on Gresty Road next to the chip shop opposite the footy stadium.

Small world, innit.

thistle_

pinno said:

veronese68 said:

oxoman said:

I reckon CB has one of the devils tools, an ebike.

Saw a cargo ebike in Kingston today, it was 'kin huge and looked like it was made from girders. Needed a motor did that.

Yeah, I see the irony.

Them girders are really irony

pinno

thistle_(mbnw) said:

pinno said:

veronese68 said:

oxoman said:

I reckon CB has one of the devils tools, an ebike.

Saw a cargo ebike in Kingston today, it was 'kin huge and looked like it was made from girders. Needed a motor did that.

Yeah, I see the irony.

Them girders are really irony

Err am I being dense or are you missing summat?

In case of the latter, it's that heavy, it needs a motor.

thistle_

pinno said:

thistle_(mbnw) said:

pinno said:

veronese68 said:

oxoman said:

I reckon CB has one of the devils tools, an ebike.

Saw a cargo ebike in Kingston today, it was 'kin huge and looked like it was made from girders. Needed a motor did that.

Yeah, I see the irony.

Them girders are really irony

Err am I being dense or are you missing summat?

In case of the latter, it's that heavy, it needs a motor.

(Iron-y girders)

pinno

thistle_(mbnw) said:

pinno said:

thistle_(mbnw) said:

pinno said:

veronese68 said:

oxoman said:

I reckon CB has one of the devils tools, an ebike.

Saw a cargo ebike in Kingston today, it was 'kin huge and looked like it was made from girders. Needed a motor did that.

Yeah, I see the irony.

Them girders are really irony

Err am I being dense or are you missing summat?

In case of the latter, it's that heavy, it needs a motor.

(Iron-y girders)

Far too sophisticated for me Thistle.

Cargobike

orraloon said:

How the hell do you run a cargo bike delivery service, especially this time of year, but still have any energy left to be posting on t'internet in the v early hours? I work physically, and after a long day I am so fuxxed that early night and sleep is the only thing.

You're not on those dodgy 'roids or that are you? Dan Roan will be after you coz cyclist innit 😊

I haven't got a clue who Dan Roan is, but no, I'm not some 'roid or a troll for that matter either.
I don't physically deliver that much myself these days. Generally, at such a busy time I might ride for 2-3 hours a day, but that's over 12 hours a day, so not that much really.

Of course, we use e-bikes too, which makes a massive difference and even though I was until fairly recently a "big boy" certainly weight wise, I've always been fit having done over a decade in the Forces where I learned that the body is far more capable than the mind lets on.

I'm far more likely to be shuffling paper or meeting clients than riding a bike. I know which I'd prefer to be doing and it ain't the paperwork.

Ultimately, come the end of January the workload will decrease significantly, so anothe 6 weeks or so and the madness will be over for another year.

You do get used to it over time.

Cargobike

Our tool of choice is the Urban Arrow XL, an e-cargobike capable of carrying 150kg plus the weight of the rider. They weigh a not inconsiderable 57kg including the "as aerodynamic as a brick" box.

You wouldn't want to be riding that for 6-8 hours a day unassisted.

For larger loads we use either CyclesMaximus or Iceni e-trikes, that can carry up to 250kg fully laden and weigh over 100kg each.

Then again during 2021 we'll be manufacturing our own e-cargobikes, hopefully. We're prototyping now and with a no-deal Brexit imminent, the bikes we import could be costing us an additional 20% next year, so making it viable to manufacture here in the UK rather than buying frames in bulk from the Far-East and assembling locally.

Watch this space.

veronese68

Cargobike said:

For larger loads we use either CyclesMaximus or Iceni e-trikes, that can carry up to 250kg fully laden and weigh over 100kg each.

I had a KTM525 for a week that weighed that with a full tank of juice, rubbish for carrying stuff though

pinno

Cargobike said:

Our tool of choice is the Urban Arrow XL, an e-cargobike capable of carrying 150kg plus the weight of the rider. They weigh a not inconsiderable 57kg including the "as aerodynamic as a brick" box.

You wouldn't want to be riding that for 6-8 hours a day unassisted.

For larger loads we use either CyclesMaximus or Iceni e-trikes, that can carry up to 250kg fully laden and weigh over 100kg each.

Then again during 2021 we'll be manufacturing our own e-cargobikes, hopefully. We're prototyping now and with a no-deal Brexit imminent, the bikes we import could be costing us an additional 20% next year, so making it viable to manufacture here in the UK rather than buying frames in bulk from the Far-East and assembling locally.

Watch this space.

Sounds interesting. Who's 'we'?

Cargobike

"We", is predominantly me working alongside Loughborough and Derby Universities.

Can't do it on my own, so it's "we" rather than "I".

That's the business plan I mentioned elsewhere tonight that I've procrastinated over, again.

Think I'd better pull a bigger biggy this weekend than I originally intended.

Cargobike

Procrastination?

What procrastination?

CB has had 2 hours sleep and feels ready to take on the world.

Business plan, prepare to planned, big, big, big time.

shirley_basso

Bigly

Stevo_666

Cargobike said:

"We", is predominantly me working alongside Loughborough and Derby Universities.

Can't do it on my own, so it's "we" rather than "I".

That's the business plan I mentioned elsewhere tonight that I've procrastinated over, again.

Think I'd better pull a bigger biggy this weekend than I originally intended.

As Pinno says interesting - Dragons Den type stuff. I would imagine R&D type costs would be quite high, so are you planning to sell these as a 'brand', rather than just develop bikes for your own business use? (as otherwise the unit cost would be pretty uncompetitive for your own use?)

shirley_basso

Excuse the blunt cynicism but one has to question what you can do with e bikes that hasn't already been done by large corporations

Cargobike

Stevo_666 said:

As Pinno says interesting - Dragons Den type stuff. I would imagine R&D type costs would be quite high, so are you planning to sell these as a 'brand', rather than just develop bikes for your own business use? (as otherwise the unit cost would be pretty uncompetitive for your own use?)

The R&D costs are already covered, I've been working on it as a side project for over 3 years now, slowly developing the design and getting the detail right. The objective is to cover our costs rather than to make profit. The profit comes from using our own "sourced" bikes to do the courier work.

I just like the idea of making our own bikes rather than handing over large chunks of cash to third-party companies, many of whom are based in Europe and will likely be sellling us exactly the same bikes in 2021, but at a 20% premium, due to Brexit.

In my niche of the logistics industry there are no major players. A few business' have franchises, but still we are talking about a dozen depots only and it's a very difficult concept to sell to the average man in the street who will choose the cheapest option on paper which is a diesel van.

Therefore, my intentions are to build our own bikes, for our use only and just keep opening depots, radiating out from our East Midlands heartland. We already sub-contract to 4 of the national carriers who are happy to give us as much work as we can take. We green their business' without them having to do anything, win-win for them.

If I can cover my operating overheads and create half a dozen manufacturing jobs in the locale I will consider it a worthwhile risk to undertake. To make 1000 bikes a year means making 4 a day over a 50 week year, so unlikely to be a money-pit.

What could go wrong?

For me, there is no need to actually do this. I have a nice house with no mortgage, could happily retire now, if I wanted to, having had other successful businesses in the past, but I don't see anybody grabbing the bull by the horns when it comes to the environmental disaster that is looming just over the horizon, so somebody needs to step up to the plate and take a punt. Might as well be me.

Of course, I could stay exactly where I am now, plodding along, making enough profit to be content, but where's the fun in that. If you are going to change the system, then it's easier to do it from within, than standing on the sidelines tub-thumping.

thistle_

I would've thought a niche for cargo bike delivery would be in narrow, residential streets where sending bug noisy vans isn't desirable.
But I think our towns and expectations have been skewed to accept that as normal - it's ok these days to drive down doorways to get through, and scrape vans along walls rather than use a smaller vehicle or - shock horror - park 50m away and walk/trolley it.

veronese68

Cargo bikes would make a lot of sense around here. Narrowish roads, at least they are now everyone has a huge 4x4, with high population density. This year courier vans stop in the middle of the road as they can't park, drop a few parcels then drive 100 yards and repeat. There was a lot of it before but it's gone mad now.
Might be worth starting a separate thread on CB's business ventures.
Good luck with it CB

shirley_basso

In response to my post above - and I do wish you the best of luck - what are you doing differently to existing cargo bikes?

Bakfiets have a good entry level bike for relatively light loads/ familiea

Cube have just released an amazing one with a Bosch engine.

Reiss and Mueller have quite a range of bikes - our local wine merchant has one - and highly rates it. Has the same Bosch motor as the cube one.

As you say, urban arrow do quite a good one (but v heavy)

They so make sense for smaller local deliveries but even our local yodel guy has a very full transit van for his rounds.

Stevo_666

Cargobike said:

Stevo_666 said:

As Pinno says interesting - Dragons Den type stuff. I would imagine R&D type costs would be quite high, so are you planning to sell these as a 'brand', rather than just develop bikes for your own business use? (as otherwise the unit cost would be pretty uncompetitive for your own use?)

The R&D costs are already covered, I've been working on it as a side project for over 3 years now, slowly developing the design and getting the detail right. The objective is to cover our costs rather than to make profit. The profit comes from using our own "sourced" bikes to do the courier work.

I just like the idea of making our own bikes rather than handing over large chunks of cash to third-party companies, many of whom are based in Europe and will likely be sellling us exactly the same bikes in 2021, but at a 20% premium, due to Brexit.

In my niche of the logistics industry there are no major players. A few business' have franchises, but still we are talking about a dozen depots only and it's a very difficult concept to sell to the average man in the street who will choose the cheapest option on paper which is a diesel van.

Therefore, my intentions are to build our own bikes, for our use only and just keep opening depots, radiating out from our East Midlands heartland. We already sub-contract to 4 of the national carriers who are happy to give us as much work as we can take. We green their business' without them having to do anything, win-win for them.

If I can cover my operating overheads and create half a dozen manufacturing jobs in the locale I will consider it a worthwhile risk to undertake. To make 1000 bikes a year means making 4 a day over a 50 week year, so unlikely to be a money-pit.

What could go wrong?

For me, there is no need to actually do this. I have a nice house with no mortgage, could happily retire now, if I wanted to, having had other successful businesses in the past, but I don't see anybody grabbing the bull by the horns when it comes to the environmental disaster that is looming just over the horizon, so somebody needs to step up to the plate and take a punt. Might as well be me.

Of course, I could stay exactly where I am now, plodding along, making enough profit to be content, but where's the fun in that. If you are going to change the system, then it's easier to do it from within, than standing on the sidelines tub-thumping.

If you need a 1,000 bikes for your own use that's a fair volume, but even if the R&D is already done that's a sunk cost that needs to be recovered. How much have you spent on it so far out of interest? (I'm an accountant by trade fyi). Not sure if the two unis have contributed to that but if so then I'm guessing they will want a slice of whatever is produced.

That said, you might want to check the financial case re: Brexit again. You mentioned a 20% price hike for the bikes you buy in from Europe post Brexit, but e-bikes will only have a 6% tariff so not sure where you get the 20% from?
https://cyclingindustry.news/governments-no-deal-brexit-update-confirms-12-months-of-0-tariffs-on-bike-imports/
(There are higher rates around where there are anti-dumping tariffs but that applies to countries like China, Indonesia etc).

If the 20% refers to VAT then that shouldn't change for a business as its effectively reverse charge pre Brexit or import VAT post Brexit - no net difference.

Hope that helps!

Cargobike

Thanks Stevo, hadn't seen that recent change in thinking regarding tarriffs.

My 20% wasn't relating to VAT, more an abitrary figure I'd plucked out of the air from information I'd read earlier in the year.

Neither Loughborough or Derby University themselves are directly invested in this project. I've been working with a business set up by former Loughborough graduates that have contacts for building frames out in the Far-East while I've utilised indirectly engineering students from Derby University to give them practical experience in the implementation of design through to completion and the stages inbetween.

Without wanting to give too much away an international logistics company that I do a hell of a lot of work with are the paymasters for the project. They have already invested heavily in another green logistics solution that they lost heavily on, over £5m /year before walking away, but want to keep their fingers in the pie as they can see which way the wind is blowing.

It's late, gone midnight. I'll explain more some other time, bed is calling.

Stevo_666

Cargobike said:

Thanks Stevo, hadn't seen that recent change in thinking regarding tarriffs.

My 20% wasn't relating to VAT, more an abitrary figure I'd plucked out of the air from information I'd read earlier in the year.

Neither Loughborough or Derby University themselves are directly invested in this project. I've been working with a business set up by former Loughborough graduates that have contacts for building frames out in the Far-East while I've utilised indirectly engineering students from Derby University to give them practical experience in the implementation of design through to completion and the stages inbetween.

Without wanting to give too much away an international logistics company that I do a hell of a lot of work with are the paymasters for the project. They have already invested heavily in another green logistics solution that they lost heavily on, over £5m /year before walking away, but want to keep their fingers in the pie as they can see which way the wind is blowing.

It's late, gone midnight. I'll explain more some other time, bed is calling.

Fair enough CB.

One more thought on this is that any import tariffs on the frames you import from the Far East will not increase due to Brexit (maybe stating the bleedin' obvious). They may even go down due to the revised UK tariffs due to kick in next month in the event of no-deal (TBC) - just watch out for the anti-dumping regs which can put penal tariffs on these sorts of products from certain countries as I mentioned above.

pinno

Are you part of this lot CB?:

https://www.smartgo.co.uk/news/32-leicester?start=24

Cargobike

Not directly, no, but the MD is an ex-business partner of mine from my original courier business in Nottingham many moons ago.

However, both our businesses use certain shared logistics solutions, so we certainly still have overlapping contact.

They are far more involved in general courier work whereas I'm very much servicing the last mile logistics sector which predominantly entails sub-contracting to the national carriers ie DHL, TNT, DPD etc.

darkhairedlord

Cargobike said:

Not directly, no, but the MD is an ex-business partner of mine from my original courier business in Nottingham many moons ago.

However, both our businesses use certain shared logistics solutions, so we certainly still have overlapping contact.

They are far more involved in general courier work whereas I'm very much servicing the last mile logistics sector which predominantly entails sub-contracting to the national carriers ie DHL, TNT, DPD etc.

I can assure you all I am not involved in the courier business.