Getting dirty again...29 FS, Analogue/E bike?

rob13

Despite having a 10yr old hardtail which has seen little use, I really fancy getting back onto MTBs after years road riding.

Recently been out on the hardtail at a few local trails which has been interesting to see how much I need to work on bike handling and confidence! Additionally I've borrowed a 29er EMTB hardtail which felt like a game changer for fun levels. I think it was both having a motor for fast uphills as well as down, and a much bigger stable bike.

I'm undecided what direction to head. Nearly 40 with a decent level of fitness but the E bike seemed to still be an effort if not lung busting plus there seems to be more entertainment everywhere! Massive commitment needed to the budget though, if it's a £2k budget for a non motored bike, it's probably about £4+ for a FS 29er E Bike.

For next couple of months I think I'll keep going on the hardtail just to see what happens with bike availability (thin on the ground at present).

What do you suggest? I definitely see positives and negatives for both sides, just not sure it's still a bit early for E bikes with reliability. They seem to shred parts quickly too.

steve_sordy

I have an emtb and they are terrific fun, no doubt about it, even if you are a superbly fit and highly skilled rider. Sadly, neither of those attributes describes me. I could see the benefits of an emtb for years before I got one, but I put it off because it felt like giving in to my ageing body. But I have arthritis in my knees and in the end it became a choice: put up with 10 miles of sedate riding every 3 days, or get back to proper riding every day if I wanted to! Hmmm, what would you do?

BUT!
There is no doubt that emtbs are expensive! Factor in between £1200 - £1500 more than the price of a bike that you would normally buy. I can recognise the lure of a hardtail emtb. They are cheaper, they are simpler to maintain (like all HT vs FS) and I can see why some choose to go that way. But the benefits are illusory. The main complexity and problems all come from the "e". In other words, the motor, the battery, the display, the controls, the charger, the software, the hardware the wiring.
In addition, should you really buy an HT emtb? I am a member of an emtb Forum and this question comes up regularly. I may be suffering from selective memory here, but I do not recall a single person speaking up for an HT emtb. The general thrust of the argument was that their handling as a hardtail suffers greatly from the extra weight of the the motor, battery......etc. Most had either sold their HT emtb and bought an FS emtb or were saving up to do so.
EMTBs are heavy!! My Focus Jam2 9.6 NINE is 20.4kg (45lbs) and that is a light one! Most are 23-24kg, some even heavier. Many owners say that you don't notice the weight when you are are riding because of the motor. They also say that the weight variability of riders is greater than the extra 7-12kg that emtbs can weigh vs analogue bikes. Try that argument when you are lifting it over a style, or a gate, or onto the roof rack. Repeat that argument when you have injured yourself and just cannot raise your arm above elbow height, or have two cracked ribs. Or maybe you have back problems and just cannot load that weight and size of bike into the back of the car? What was just about possible with a 12-13kg analogue bike becomes impossible. So, like I did you have to shell out more money for a tow bar and a tow bar mounted bike rack. That's the cost of decent analogue hardtail right there!

EMTBs can also be troublesome. I prided myself on my ability to service or replace pretty much anything on my bike. OK, I would draw the line at a cracked frame or knackered suspension, but just about everything else I have sorted out or I decided that it was faster for the LBS to do it. But motors, batteries, charging problems, electrical fault finding, software problems..... not many are comfortable sorting out those sorts of things and anyway won't the warranty be voided if you start stripping them down? And parts for these things are EXPENSIVE. Motors and batteries are in the region £550 - £650 each. Even short bits of wire with special purpose connectors are £15 and never seem to be in stock. Motors and batteries wear out and you only have a two-year warranty.
With some problems, it is not possible for most people to determine what is the cause of why their emtb won't go and the whole thing has to back to where they bought it from. You may already be so confident about bikes that you are comfortable buying an import directly from the internet sellers (as I have), but what if you have to send the bike back to Germany or Italy, or Spain......? You are dealing with people in another country, who may not speak your language well, or at all. How long will the bike be gone as a minimum? How will you be able to chase progress? What if they just say it's fine and send it back and it still won't work.. All these things are easy to resolve when you can take the bike to your LBS and look them in the eye. Sometimes the technician just say "Oh, I know what that is all you have to do is ...." and you are on your way!

If you are the sort of rider that trashes your bike with massive jumps and insists on changing gear while hero-heaving up hills, then you will be the sort of rider that has chain and gear lives in the low hundreds of miles, you may need up to as many as six new motors in your two-year warranty period (one Specialized Levo rider). Great, its free!, But then what do you do once its not free? Unless they are rich, emtbs may not be for that type of rider.

Development of ebikes is astonishingly fast. They are getting better and better every year. Currently every ebike that is any good at all is being sold. Some of the 2021 emtbs, you just cannot get one for six months. The industry cannot believe it they cannot seem to accept that this is the new normal and are reluctant to gear up production in case it all goes flat. Once the initial surge dies back, the normal balance between supply and demand will be restored and deals will become available again. You are now lucky if you can even get a test ride before you shell out your £2500 -£12000!

So, I have outlined a fairly unpleasant scenario there. So why are ebikes the fastest growing sector in the market? It is impossible now to go for a ride and not see one somewhere. I read recently that ebike sales are growing at 20-30% per year. All the bike makers have decided that they have to have an ebike, even the niche brands like Santa Cruz and Pace! (SC already, Pace TBC). To answer the question, you have to go back to the start - bikes are FUN, FUN, FUN! Despite all the doom and gloom that you will find on the internet if you look hard enough most people never have a problem. People seldom write in just to say that they have had no problems.

@rob13 You are still in your 30's, in other words you are in the prime of life. If there is nothing physically wrong with you apart from being less fit than you used to be, my advice to you would be to wait. Stay with the analogue bikes, buy the best you can justify to yourself.

But if you do take the plunge and buy an emtb, then there will be no going back! You will be utterly hooked! There is nothing like an emtb and there will be no going back.

loltoride

E bikes are certainly popular but the spec of bikes for me is just a joke and most of my friends who have purchased usually end up changing all types of expensive parts in particular forks. Personally I will look at an Ebike when my body's says time to change but currently riding is part of my exercise routine so a few years away from trying and I also on my first FS.

steve_sordy

Yep, for sure the manufacturers are trying to stay below certain price points and making spec compromises as a consequence, as they do for their analogue bikes. But as with all bikes, they publish detail specs and the buyer can make up their mind what they want to do. It is the buyer's choice. Whatever they want to pay for a bike, then an ebike will have a lower spec fit out than the equivalent priced analogue bike. It's the same dilemma when comparing hardtails and full suspension bikes, only more extreme.

What did I change on my emtb bike?
#Grips, but I always do that.
#Saddle, the brand and spec was right but the saddle was too narrow for my sit bones.
#Going tubeless: Always have to do that.
#Tyres. The Maxxis Rekons OK for dry summer weather, but carp for anything else. But I can't remember the last time I didn't change the tyres on my bike.
#Fork: About a year after purchase I upgraded the Motion Control damper in the Revelation RC Debonair fork to a Charger 2.1 RCT3. That effectively makes the fork a Pike. I've upgraded forks on several analogue bikes before.
#Shock: I added one token to the positive side of the Rockshox Deluxe R Debonair after about 20 months. I am planning to swap out the shock completely for a DVO Topaz T3 as soon as they come back into stock in the UK.

What warranty work?
#The charger was faulty and wouldn't charge an empty battery if the charger was below 10degC. The dealer agreed, lots of people from around the world agreed it was a batch fault on the charger. Focus disagreed and without even trying an alternative charger for about £60, just changed the battery at around £600. The dealer gave me a new charger anyway so I guess Focus still believe that a new battery solved the problem! That was it on "e" components. ie no other electrical problems.
#A few bolts came loose, a brake calliper seized and was scrapped, and a lower shock mounting bolt came loose and sheared. All either noticed and fixed by me or claimed without hassle under warranty. But any of these could have happened on an analogue bike.

I am coming very close to the end of my two-year warranty and I am very aware that if the motor or battery fail then I'm looking at big money to replace either of them. My problem is that my bike is so good that I am struggling to decide what new emtb out there I would replace it with except exactly the same, if Focus still make it (not sure they do!)

gomezz

What a good assessment of E bike's from Steve, from a person that buys his own unlike the testers and reviews in the bike mag's.
I have thought about them but the cost is a factor putting me off, at present even though I'm in my mid 70s I am still fit. Now I have read Steve's assessment I am far better informed.
The cost of ordinary full sus bikes is crazy for what they are, " it's a push bike for god's sake" I bet loads of bikers have paid more for the bike they unload at Sherwood Pines than the car they have brought it in is worth as a trade in, and the replacement parts of some things is eye watering, more so now with people repairing more bikes.

steve_sordy

@gomezz Thanks for the kind words.
I ride regularly at Pines and know pretty much all the off-piste trails. If you want to have a go on my emtb, you are very welcome. We could meet up and I can answer any more of your questions about emtbs. There is a guy in the next village to me, he's 74 and with heart problems (ATF I believe). He was a road rider for decades. He's small and wiry and was dead keen on mtb. Despite my bike being a Large and his size being a Small, once he'd ridden it for 200 yards he was sold! Next thing I knew he had a Canyon Spectral On (The 8.0 I think) and he'd sold his YT Jeffsy. He rides the Spectral every day. I used to see him quite frequently but since Covid he's been keeping himself to himself (still riding).

gomezz

Thanks for the offer Steve, I may well take you up on it.
Be good to meet in the flesh. I will PM you when I am ready.

mully79

There was some talk of an ebike government subsidy. That even makes anti ebike riders like me interested. Combining a subsidy with the cycle to work scheme could provide me a donor bike. I can strip the motor/battery off and sell them as spares with the charger, chuck the frame in the bin and buy a proper bike frame with the profits.

steve_sordy

Let us know how that works out for you @mully79