Upgrading to micro spline

Can you fit a micro spline hub to a shimano hg free hub without having to change the wheel hub. I’ve read acres of articles firstly I’m not sure how upto date they are, and clarity is not perceived, as this is shimano,s upgrade path to 12 speed, it seems exceptional costly and complex to get on the bottom rung

Comments

  • reaperactual
    reaperactual Posts: 1,185
    edited November 2020
    Fitting a Microspline freehub will depend on whether the rear hub you have now has got a licence agreement from Shimano to produce a Microspline to specifically fit their own brand rear hub.

    i.e. Hope make a Microspline freehub to fit Hope hubs, DT Swiss make a Microspline freehub to fit a DT Swiss hub and so on.

    The complication is DT Swiss make the internals for other hubs too which would mean a DT Microspline will fit on another brand providing it has certain DT internals but the information of a given hubs internal brand isn't readily available or mentioned.

    You could fit a full 12 speed Shimano groupset along with a 12 speed cassette that is compatible with a standard HG freehub and it will work except the hyperglide+ (shifting under load) feature only works in conjunction with a proper Shimano 12 speed Microspline cassette and matching chain.

  • Well I guess that sort of answers the question but the key is at the end of your first sentence I don’t know what rear hub I have now, the bike manufacturer blinds this by only quoting their name ie haibike component and no detail on who made it, so I guess the only way is to take it apart and see if there are any numbers
  • reaperactual
    reaperactual Posts: 1,185
    edited November 2020
    Likely you have a generic Formula hub then. Usually only vaguely described in spec.

    Sometimes no brand name or re-branded with the name of the bike and no other markings. Not worth taking apart as that won't help identifying it.

    Take a close look at the hub and if is Formula maybe you can identify it accurately here just so you know for sure:-

    https://www.formulahubs.com/product.php?t=3

    These generic hubs very likely aren't compatible. Also very doubtful your hub maker have a licence to or produced a Microspline freehub to fit and it definitely won't have DT Swiss internals unfortunately.

    This website lists other brands that use DT Swiss internals as well as currently compatible brands last updated in late August, see note:-

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/off.road.cc/content/buying/complete-guide-who-makes-micro-spline-wheels-hubs-m9100-xtr?amp

    The other option to explore is a standard 12 speed HG cassette with the rest of the Shimano groupset which would be the cheapest option otherwise a new rear hub/wheel will be the only way forward if you want a full Shimano 12 speed set up.

  • steve_sordy
    steve_sordy Posts: 2,441
    @reaperactual How the hell do you come to know all this stuff?
    Gasps in baffled admiration (and a degree of envy). <3
  • reaperactual
    reaperactual Posts: 1,185
    edited November 2020
    Lol! 😃 Unfortunately Steve, mostly the hard way. Half the time spent wrecking hubs, the other half trying to fix 'em!🤬

    By that reckoning what happened with you, forks, shocks and tubuless set ups seeing as you're an expert on those subjects?🤓👍

    I hazard a guess at a similar scenario of trial, error, hours of messing around in the shed and more often than not feverishly Googling trying to sort self imposed issues out Pal.🤣😂
  • JBA
    JBA Posts: 2,852

    Can you fit a micro spline hub to a shimano hg free hub without having to change the wheel hub. I’ve read acres of articles firstly I’m not sure how upto date they are, and clarity is not perceived, as this is shimano,s upgrade path to 12 speed, it seems exceptional costly and complex to get on the bottom rung

    It is costly so you have to consider why you want to go to 12-speed. Is it because the marketing is telling you it's a must? Do you need a 51-tooth sprocket because you ride up massive inclines? Your current drive chain is worn out and need replacing?

    At the moment it is much easier and cheaper to run 9-, 10- or 11-speed gearing and it all works very well.
    “Life has been unfaithful
    And it all promised so so much”

    Giant Trance 2 27.5 2016 ¦ Sonder Broken Road 2021¦ Giant Revolt Advanced 2 2019 ¦ Giant Toughtroad SLR 1 2019 ¦ Giant Anthem 3 2015 ¦ Specialized Myka Comp FSR 2009
  • steve_sordy
    steve_sordy Posts: 2,441

    Lol! 😃 Unfortunately Steve, mostly the hard way. Half the time spent wrecking hubs, the other half trying to fix 'em!🤬

    By that reckoning what happened with you, forks, shocks and tubuless set ups seeing as you're an expert on those subjects?🤓👍

    I hazard a guess at a similar scenario of trial, error, hours of messing around in the shed and more often than not feverishly Googling trying to sort self imposed issues out Pal.🤣😂

    Ha! :D I never use the word "expert". Comb the internet for as long as you like and you will never find me claiming to be an expert (except on job applications of course!)
    Because...."ex" = an unknown quantity, and "spert" = a drip under pressure!

    I try to only share what I know to be true. But occasionally I end up sharing what I "believe" to be true. Sadly believing it to be true sometimes does not make it so. Under these circumstances, you can be sure that all those lovely people on the internet are kind enough to take the time to educate me. Often in a very clear and abrupt manner. I am always willing to learn, but when I get it wrong it always seems to be a hard lesson.

    PS: You ought to try me out on chains and the theory of wear, and setting up suspension, as well as those you assign to me above. Again, I claim no expertise, but I do have very firm opinions! :D
  • Cool Steve, I get it. As a 'spert' myself I've had my ar#e handed to me on a plate numerous times too!😂

    Isn't a helpful suggestion better than no help at all? At least it prompts a more accurate response.

    I know zero about lots of certain things e.g. forks, shocks, tubeless so I ask to gain the knowledge and you have helped me out lots of times.👍

    First fork service is on the cards so look forward to your 'spertise' or at least your very firm opinions on that.😎🤘
  • reaperactual
    reaperactual Posts: 1,185
    edited November 2020
    JBA said:

    Can you fit a micro spline hub to a shimano hg free hub without having to change the wheel hub. I’ve read acres of articles firstly I’m not sure how upto date they are, and clarity is not perceived, as this is shimano,s upgrade path to 12 speed, it seems exceptional costly and complex to get on the bottom rung

    It is costly so you have to consider why you want to go to 12-speed. Is it because the marketing is telling you it's a must? Do you need a 51-tooth sprocket because you ride up massive inclines? Your current drive chain is worn out and need replacing?

    At the moment it is much easier and cheaper to run 9-, 10- or 11-speed gearing and it all works very well.
    JBA raises a fair point about 12 speeds. Fully agree about the hype, expense for the one extra massive, rarely used cog.

    Hyperglide + seems gimmicky and a sales pitch, don't think it's mechanically sympathetic to change gear under load even if you could.

    A 30/32t chainring, 11-42/46 cassette is ample for any level of rider on any terrain and all most of us would ever need, the number of clicks between is almost irrelevant IMO.

    It's definitely worth considering a 1x10/11 speed drivetrain, providing a good gear range and saves a lot of hassle and cash in the process in the short and also long term.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,187

    Isn't a helpful suggestion better than no help at all? At least it prompts a more accurate response.

    As someone has written in their sig, opinions on here are worth what you pay for them.
    But this place would die a horrible lonely death without well meaning advice so please carry on and hopefully we will all learn something.
    Sorry I can't help on the microspline, but as JBA says, is it worth the expense for a marginal gain?
  • Hi all and thank you for your responses mostly helpful and interesting. But not conclusive. It mostly started as an idea for a winter project, my present set up is a 1* 9 , which could be upgraded easily to 1 * 11 even with my existing hub body. The 51 tooth that the 12 speed is not really of great interest, the last time I tried to ride up the side of a barn I fell off and gave up all aspiration of doing it again. My present set upl is 36 teeth and it would be useful to increase that to the mid 40s, I can do this at 11 speed using an SLX cassette, but as we all know all std free hubs don’t open up the other end of the range ie the 10 tooth because of the limitations imposed by the std free hub body, and also the opportunity to benefit from hyper glide+ if it’s real.
    Upgrading to 11 speed, cassette derailed chain and shifter is not overly pricey can be done for about £150 whereas 12 speed is more than twice that, + at least £ 100 for wheel and hub. Part of my and many others dilemma is is it worth going to 11 speed which will be as obsolete as 7 speed in three years time.
    The tech for 11 or 12 speed is easy to sort but the real stumbling block is the wheel sellers who by and large just don’t know what hubs are fitted to their wheels or if they can be converted to microspline, unless you buy into dt Swiss or mavic at significant extra cost. I don’t mind investing in my bike but I don’t really want to do it twice but also I love solving mechanical problems its a challenge, nigel.
  • reaperactual
    reaperactual Posts: 1,185
    edited January 2021
    After your obvious extensive research in getting into the nitty gritty of the whole situation, out of curiosity what exactly is your plan going forward now Nigel?

    11 speed, 12 speed, your own custom Microspline creation with some standard OEM fitted hubs?

    Also not quite sure how you've arrived at some of your conclusions about higher end wheel/hub makers like DT Swiss, Mavic, etc not knowing their own product's internal make up?

    It's the new Shimano freehub standard that is needed if we wish to use their 12 speed set ups which is the cost of upgrading not wheel manufacturers imposing it on us.
  • david37
    david37 Posts: 1,313
    Buy some dtswiss hubs and build ypur wheels, pop a different hub on there if you change to 12 speed shimano or stam at some point