Do You Change Your Pads When You Change Rotors?
Over the summer put some new Ultegra Freeza Rotors on my winter bike but there was plenty of wear left on the pads so after cleaning them thoroughly with isopropyl alcohol popped them back in.
Now I've come to use the bike again I'm getting an awful screeching noise when braking particularly when just coming to a stop even after a couple of weeks use.
Had the pads out & cleaned them again along with the rotor but still the same.
Should I have replaced the pads?
My previous rotors were 105's & I only got noise in the wet so are these Ultegra worse for that?
Comments
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Have you tried scuffing up the pads with some sandpaper?0
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Your pads and discs have to be happy with each other. If they are they will be quiet.
Changing things upsets them.
You need to put some fine sandpaper ( or wet or dry paper) on a flat surface and gently rub the pads surface on it to remove the pad surface . When you have done that the pad will have a nice matt appearance, no shiny bits. Next remove the disc and rub the braking surface with fine wet or dry paper to remove anything your pads have put on your new discs. Just cleaning with brake cleaner is not enough. Then clean pads and discs with brake cleaner and reassemble.
Then bed things in with plenty of hard braking.
Do that and your pads and discs will quietly love each other.
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lesfirth said:
Your pads and discs have to be happy with each other. If they are they will be quiet.
Changing things upsets them.
You need to put some fine sandpaper ( or wet or dry paper) on a flat surface and gently rub the pads surface on it to remove the pad surface . When you have done that the pad will have a nice matt appearance, no shiny bits. Next remove the disc and rub the braking surface with fine wet or dry paper to remove anything your pads have put on your new discs. Just cleaning with brake cleaner is not enough. Then clean pads and discs with brake cleaner and reassemble.
Then bed things in with plenty of hard braking.
Do that and your pads and discs will quietly love each other.
Thanks Les.
I will need to give that a go as it's driving me mad. I always keep a set of pads as spares so I do have some new ones but seems a waste to chuck a perfectly good pair of pads away.0 -
I've got those same Ultegra rotors and they don't squeal in the dry. They do in the wet, but return to silence when they've dried out. That's with the stock Shimano resin pads that came with the callipers.1
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I replaced some worn pads with new ones. Queue 9 months of squealing and worse performing brakes than I'd had before the replacement.
I think I finally got to the bottom of it by reading something on here.
That is that the cheaper Shimano rotors are only suitable for resin pads and overheat (or something) with sintered pads. The latter is what I'd bought.
Even replacing the sintered pads for resin didn't fix the issue and I needed to replace the disk as well to restore the original performance and silence0 -
akh said:
I've got those same Ultegra rotors and they don't squeal in the dry. They do in the wet, but return to silence when they've dried out. That's with the stock Shimano resin pads that came with the callipers.
That's what I was expecting TBH & that's the same set up as mine.captain_chaos said:I replaced some worn pads with new ones. Queue 9 months of squealing and worse performing brakes than I'd had before the replacement.
I think I finally got to the bottom of it by reading something on here.
That is that the cheaper Shimano rotors are only suitable for resin pads and overheat (or something) with sintered pads. The latter is what I'd bought.
Even replacing the sintered pads for resin didn't fix the issue and I needed to replace the disk as well to restore the original performance and silence
Never used the sintered pads, only ever used what came with the bike which are the resin L02A I believe.
Looks like I need to get the sandpaper out, it can't be any worse than it is now......
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At least you should have a dust mask handy!ibr17xvii said:akh said:I've got those same Ultegra rotors and they don't squeal in the dry. They do in the wet, but return to silence when they've dried out. That's with the stock Shimano resin pads that came with the callipers.
That's what I was expecting TBH & that's the same set up as mine.captain_chaos said:I replaced some worn pads with new ones. Queue 9 months of squealing and worse performing brakes than I'd had before the replacement.
I think I finally got to the bottom of it by reading something on here.
That is that the cheaper Shimano rotors are only suitable for resin pads and overheat (or something) with sintered pads. The latter is what I'd bought.
Even replacing the sintered pads for resin didn't fix the issue and I needed to replace the disk as well to restore the original performance and silence
Never used the sintered pads, only ever used what came with the bike which are the resin L02A I believe.
Looks like I need to get the sandpaper out, it can't be any worse than it is now......1 -
darkhairedlord said:
At least you should have a dust mask handy!ibr17xvii said:akh said:I've got those same Ultegra rotors and they don't squeal in the dry. They do in the wet, but return to silence when they've dried out. That's with the stock Shimano resin pads that came with the callipers.
That's what I was expecting TBH & that's the same set up as mine.captain_chaos said:I replaced some worn pads with new ones. Queue 9 months of squealing and worse performing brakes than I'd had before the replacement.
I think I finally got to the bottom of it by reading something on here.
That is that the cheaper Shimano rotors are only suitable for resin pads and overheat (or something) with sintered pads. The latter is what I'd bought.
Even replacing the sintered pads for resin didn't fix the issue and I needed to replace the disk as well to restore the original performance and silence
Never used the sintered pads, only ever used what came with the bike which are the resin L02A I believe.
Looks like I need to get the sandpaper out, it can't be any worse than it is now......
Good point, never thought of that!!!
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Having read through this thread I'm getting nervous.........reason being that I'm more than likely to be buying a new road bike in 2021........with disc brakes! I've always had rim brakes to date and they're easy to maintain - and no noise. I hate noisy bikes!
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Whatever sintered pads do to the surface it seems pretty drastic as I have tried sanding etc to no improvement.captain_chaos said:I replaced some worn pads with new ones. Queue 9 months of squealing and worse performing brakes than I'd had before the replacement.
I think I finally got to the bottom of it by reading something on here.
That is that the cheaper Shimano rotors are only suitable for resin pads and overheat (or something) with sintered pads. The latter is what I'd bought.
Even replacing the sintered pads for resin didn't fix the issue and I needed to replace the disk as well to restore the original performance and silence
While the "cheap" Shimano disks are about £15 they are still more expensive than rims brakes to maintain. I only got ~3500 miles out of the front pads but the bike before this one which had rim brakes, I am sure I never changed the pads over a similar duty cycle and distance0 -
johnnyfartpants said:
Having read through this thread I'm getting nervous.........reason being that I'm more than likely to be buying a new road bike in 2021........with disc brakes! I've always had rim brakes to date and they're easy to maintain - and no noise. I hate noisy bikes!
Without sending the thread completely OT to the whole disc v rim debate I was exactly the same as you. This is my 1st disc brake bike & as the thread shows I'm still learning what's best to do & not to do.
In my (limited) experience disc brakes are probably slightly more difficult to maintain but once they are set up & working correctly the braking performance v rim particularly in the wet is night & day.
I'm probably slightly to blame as I just fancied some of the Ultegra rotors as I've always hated the look of the 105's so if I'd left everything alone it would've been fine.1 -
Get a rim brake bike Johnny, the dual bolt brake ones are super powerful. And like you said, simple and very cheap to set up.johnnyfartpants said:Having read through this thread I'm getting nervous.........reason being that I'm more than likely to be buying a new road bike in 2021........with disc brakes! I've always had rim brakes to date and they're easy to maintain - and no noise. I hate noisy bikes!
Ignore those who ride round in fear with their brakes scrapping the rimms all the time, I'm not convinced there is any cost advantage for disk brake users. There is certainly a faff disadvantage with discs.
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david37 said:
Get a rim brake bike Johnny, the dual bolt brake ones are super powerful. And like you said, simple and very cheap to set up.johnnyfartpants said:Having read through this thread I'm getting nervous.........reason being that I'm more than likely to be buying a new road bike in 2021........with disc brakes! I've always had rim brakes to date and they're easy to maintain - and no noise. I hate noisy bikes!
Ignore those who ride round in fear with their brakes scrapping the rimms all the time, I'm not convinced there is any cost advantage for disk brake users. There is certainly a faff disadvantage with discs.
There is certainly a faff disadvantage with discs & the newer direct mounts are probably super powerful but I doubt very much they are as powerful as discs.
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It seems that the amount of half decent 'new' bikes with rim brake options are dwindling. I've now ridden the same frame for 15 years but fancy an upgrade. Having never ever bought an 'off the peg full build bike' (always bought frames and then added kit specifically hand picked) in over 30 years of riding, i do now get a little bit confused at the complexity of options.
I'll ponder my options over the winter months............0 -
but how powerful do they need to be????? i ride disc and rim brakes and even yesterday down a 15% hill in torrential rain i had no concerns about the brakes ability to stop the wheel. My biggest concern was that the road was greasy and not locking my wheel and finding myself on my a rse.ibr17xvii said:david37 said:
Get a rim brake bike Johnny, the dual bolt brake ones are super powerful. And like you said, simple and very cheap to set up.johnnyfartpants said:Having read through this thread I'm getting nervous.........reason being that I'm more than likely to be buying a new road bike in 2021........with disc brakes! I've always had rim brakes to date and they're easy to maintain - and no noise. I hate noisy bikes!
Ignore those who ride round in fear with their brakes scrapping the rimms all the time, I'm not convinced there is any cost advantage for disk brake users. There is certainly a faff disadvantage with discs.
There is certainly a faff disadvantage with discs & the newer direct mounts are probably super powerful but I doubt very much they are as powerful as discs.
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david37 said:
but how powerful do they need to be????? i ride disc and rim brakes and even yesterday down a 15% hill in torrential rain i had no concerns about the brakes ability to stop the wheel. My biggest concern was that the road was greasy and not locking my wheel and finding myself on my a rse.ibr17xvii said:david37 said:
Get a rim brake bike Johnny, the dual bolt brake ones are super powerful. And like you said, simple and very cheap to set up.johnnyfartpants said:Having read through this thread I'm getting nervous.........reason being that I'm more than likely to be buying a new road bike in 2021........with disc brakes! I've always had rim brakes to date and they're easy to maintain - and no noise. I hate noisy bikes!
Ignore those who ride round in fear with their brakes scrapping the rimms all the time, I'm not convinced there is any cost advantage for disk brake users. There is certainly a faff disadvantage with discs.
There is certainly a faff disadvantage with discs & the newer direct mounts are probably super powerful but I doubt very much they are as powerful as discs.
Powerful enough to stop you?!?! Subjective obviously but it's not just about stopping power it's also about modulation.
I have 3 bikes - 2 rim & 1 disc, FWIW if push comes to shove I would favour the rim bikes 100% of the time if I lived somewhere that it didn't rain & I wasn't descending mountains every day. However IMHO discs come into their own when the weather is less than perfect.
Your example is fair enough for you but if I was descending a 15% descent in the wet I know which I'd prefer.
Either way I'm sure there are hundreds of disc v rim threads on here!0 -
I live in West Yorkshire......it rains (quite a lot)........and it's hilly
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I am glad my post was of some use. A bit I forgot was to put a bit of copperslip on the back of the pad where the piston pushes. Taking care of course not to get any on the front of the pad or disc.
I come from the car trade where that is standard practice.1 -
lesfirth said:
I am glad my post was of some use. A bit I forgot was to put a bit of copperslip on the back of the pad where the piston pushes. Taking care of course not to get any on the front of the pad or disc.
I come from the car trade where that is standard practice.
What does that do?0 -
IMHO The brake noise is coming from the brake pads vibrating at high frequency. The copperslip dampens the vibration. On cars copperslip is also put on the ends of the pad backing plates where they slide in the calipers. I am not suggesting you do that on your bike but I do.ibr17xvii said:lesfirth said:I am glad my post was of some use. A bit I forgot was to put a bit of copperslip on the back of the pad where the piston pushes. Taking care of course not to get any on the front of the pad or disc.
I come from the car trade where that is standard practice.
What does that do?1 -
lesfirth said:
IMHO The brake noise is coming from the brake pads vibrating at high frequency. The copperslip dampens the vibration. On cars copperslip is also put on the ends of the pad backing plates where they slide in the calipers. I am not suggesting you do that on your bike but I do.ibr17xvii said:lesfirth said:I am glad my post was of some use. A bit I forgot was to put a bit of copperslip on the back of the pad where the piston pushes. Taking care of course not to get any on the front of the pad or disc.
I come from the car trade where that is standard practice.
What does that do?
Every day is a school day, I've never heard of this before.
So on the rear of the pad itself put on a bit of copperslip so that it will essentially be between the pad & the piston? The copperslip doesn't damage the piston itself in any way?0 -
The normal(?) use for copper slip/copper grease is as an anti seize compound designed to operate at extremes of temperature. It is not a lubricant. It's generally used to help prevent seizing and corrosion at high temperatures. In the automotive industry for example it's used on exhaust manifold bolts, brake calliper bolts, wheel nuts/bolts etc where there can be a lot of heat, with the aim that you hope you can get the nuts/bolts off a few years later
And a quick Internet search gives this link (although obviously automotive and not cycling related):
https://thepartsalliance.com/delphi-does-not-recommend-the-use-of-copper-grease/
I know people have used it to stop HEGO/UHEGO sensors (the AFR sensors) in petrol engine exhausts seizing as these can reach over 1000Deg C, but there's some reason that this is not preferred as it can impact the sensor life and readings, but I can't find any reference to this on a quick (public) internet search. There are other alternatives with silver or aluminium I think that are better suited for this application
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