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Scottish Hate Crime Bill

nickicenickice Posts: 2,439
edited November 2020 in The cake stop
It's actually scarier than I thought and from a cursory look at the explanatory notes would surely outlaw most religious texts (or large parts of them). Also no 'dwelling defence'. This is seriously authoritarian legislation being proposed here.

Even plays don't seem to be exempt..

The irony is that it purports to remove the law on blasphemy!

https://beta.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/current-bills/hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill/introduced/explanatory-notes-hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill.pdf

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2326070/what-changes-have-been-proposed-to-scotlands-hate-crime-laws/

Posts

  • nickice said:

    It's actually scarier than I thought and from a cursory look at the explanatory notes would surely outlaw most religious texts (or large parts of them). Also no 'dwelling defence'. This is seriously authoritarian legislation being proposed here.

    Even plays don't seem to be exempt..

    The irony is that it purports to remove the law on blasphemy!

    https://beta.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/current-bills/hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill/introduced/explanatory-notes-hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill.pdf

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2326070/what-changes-have-been-proposed-to-scotlands-hate-crime-laws/

    Was this bill brought about because of Sectarian singing at the Old Firm?
  • nickicenickice Posts: 2,439
    edited November 2020

    nickice said:

    It's actually scarier than I thought and from a cursory look at the explanatory notes would surely outlaw most religious texts (or large parts of them). Also no 'dwelling defence'. This is seriously authoritarian legislation being proposed here.

    Even plays don't seem to be exempt..

    The irony is that it purports to remove the law on blasphemy!

    https://beta.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/current-bills/hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill/introduced/explanatory-notes-hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill.pdf

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2326070/what-changes-have-been-proposed-to-scotlands-hate-crime-laws/

    Was this bill brought about because of Sectarian singing at the Old Firm?
    No but they did previously repeal a law that banned sectarian chanting at football.
  • nickice said:

    nickice said:

    It's actually scarier than I thought and from a cursory look at the explanatory notes would surely outlaw most religious texts (or large parts of them). Also no 'dwelling defence'. This is seriously authoritarian legislation being proposed here.

    Even plays don't seem to be exempt..

    The irony is that it purports to remove the law on blasphemy!

    https://beta.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/current-bills/hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill/introduced/explanatory-notes-hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill.pdf

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2326070/what-changes-have-been-proposed-to-scotlands-hate-crime-laws/

    Was this bill brought about because of Sectarian singing at the Old Firm?
    No but they did previously repeal a law that banned sectarian chanting at football.
    Ah, my bad. Was sure I'd heard something like this regarding the Old Firm games.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,097
    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,543

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    Well quite.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313
    rjsterry said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    Well quite.
    The snp are a shambles, it wont be enough for wee nippy to avoid supporting the anti english rhetoric she will have to preside over the spectacle of her supporters being arrested and tried. Only that wont universally happen of course.

  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 44,950
    I can only assume it was passed to catch more people like this despicable character who was found guilty of a hate crime, aided and abetted by his pet pug dog:

    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • nickicenickice Posts: 2,439
    Stevo_666 said:

    I can only assume it was passed to catch more people like this despicable character who was found guilty of a hate crime, aided and abetted by his pet pug dog:

    Careful because Owen Jones will be along in a minute to tell us context doesn't matter.
  • nickicenickice Posts: 2,439

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,543
    edited November 2020
    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • nickicenickice Posts: 2,439
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    I was being sarcastic. No emoji to be fair.
  • Scottish policies by Scottish people for Scottish people. No English politicians involved. YES, I tell you YES.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 15,097
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    I fear you have taken his remark literally. He may give you a 'whoosh' ;)
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 19,543
    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    I was being sarcastic. No emoji to be fair.
    I know, but that is how they market themselves. I was agreeing.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • nickicenickice Posts: 2,439
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    I was being sarcastic. No emoji to be fair.
    I know, but that is how they market themselves. I was agreeing.
    Ah OK. I can't really understand what the benefits of Scottish independence would be. Some people think it's because Scotland is more socialist but that could change (it used to get a lot of Conservative MP's). I see only downsides especially as oil reserves are dwindling. Yes, there's Brexit but Scottish EU membership would probably do more harm than good now that the UK has left the EU

    Legally, Sturgeon hasn't got a leg to stand on regarding another referendum.
  • nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    I was being sarcastic. No emoji to be fair.
    I know, but that is how they market themselves. I was agreeing.
    Ah OK. I can't really understand what the benefits of Scottish independence would be. Some people think it's because Scotland is more socialist but that could change (it used to get a lot of Conservative MP's). I see only downsides especially as oil reserves are dwindling. Yes, there's Brexit but Scottish EU membership would probably do more harm than good now that the UK has left the EU

    Legally, Sturgeon hasn't got a leg to stand on regarding another referendum.
    It isn't going away though. Despite that the covid crisis has been basically as bad here as anywhere in Europe, and track and trace in Scotland should be more manageable than England but is every bit as bad (and under Scottish Govt control), and although our care home scandal is every bit as bad as England's, Sturgeon is now a saint. It will be an SNP landslide in 2021 because there is literally no opposition. Two charismatic leaders quit rather than carry the fight. One had a baby, the other moved in with an SNP minister.

    The economic case for independence is catastrophic, but the "back in the EU" ticket will get traction, even though it would require a decade or more of austerity to get the deficit under Greece levels. Glasgow-ned-man will not understand this, and the SNP will lie. After all, a £14Billion sovereign wealth fund from oil has gone missing since 2014 and no one has noticed.

    Then there is currency. Current policy is the Scottish pound. Linked to Stirling, before being dropped from a great height.

    If, and its a big if, the policy were to be more Norwegian, with freedom of movement and being part of the customs union (let's ignore border issues, because the SNP will ignore that too), then it would make at least some sense. Even more sense if the Euro, after a Stirling transition period, were to be the currency. Lets face it , Scotland in the EU wouldn't have a voice anyway and no central bank conrol, so full membership or part of the EEA makes not that much difference.

    If you are a business currently vascilating between, say, a base in Paisley and one in Carlisle, would this nudge you more towards Paisley?
  • nickicenickice Posts: 2,439
    Norway isn't in the customs union. My objection to Scotland leaving the union are much the same as my objections to the UK leaving the EU, though in Scotland's case it'd be even more difficult given the currency issues you outline above.

    But people don't understand a lot of the issues which is a problem.
  • I hadn't realised that. They almost are - looks like they opted out on fishing and a few other issues. But they are in the EEA and have freedom of movement etc.

    The currency is a show stopper, economically, but the electorate don't understand this. There is nothing preventing any country adopting any currency. We could use the dollar if we wanted. So the more likely reality would be indefinite use of Sterling before joining the EU. Again, this would give Scotland less independence in many ways that it currently has, but the electorate don't understand this.

    Basically, it will come down to a blue and while flag, lots of tartan, some thinly veiled xenophobia and some tub thumping. Followed by a decade of people wondering why they are in negative equity, the roads are pre-Roman and they are being taxed out of their minds without getting any public services.
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313
    ah but they dont need to pay their share of uk debt LOLOL. so the moronic thinking goes. On the other hand beware the hand of the great English hating Joe Biden. He would almost certainly like to support his pro ira chums in scotland in the disintigration of the UK.

  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 44,950
    nickice said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    I can only assume it was passed to catch more people like this despicable character who was found guilty of a hate crime, aided and abetted by his pet pug dog:

    Careful because Owen Jones will be along in a minute to tell us context doesn't matter.
    :)
    Whippet
    Bruiser
    Panzer
    Commuter

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • john80john80 Posts: 2,036
    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    rjsterry said:

    nickice said:

    Section 3 – Offence of stirring up hatred

    31. Section 3 creates two offences of stirring up hatred.

    32. Section 3(1)(a) and (b) creates an offence of stirring up racial hatred.
    It provides that it is an offence for a person to behave in a threatening,
    abusive or insulting manner, or communicate threatening, abusive or
    insulting material to another person, with either the intention to stir up
    hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by
    reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or
    national origins, or where it is a likely consequence that hatred will be
    stirred up against such a group.

    Be interesting when SNP start the anti English rhetoric. ;)

    The SNP are 'inclusive ' nationalists...
    How can there be such a thing? Nationalism is by definition exclusive. A veneer of 'progressive' policies doesn't change that.
    I was being sarcastic. No emoji to be fair.
    I know, but that is how they market themselves. I was agreeing.
    Ah OK. I can't really understand what the benefits of Scottish independence would be. Some people think it's because Scotland is more socialist but that could change (it used to get a lot of Conservative MP's). I see only downsides especially as oil reserves are dwindling. Yes, there's Brexit but Scottish EU membership would probably do more harm than good now that the UK has left the EU

    Legally, Sturgeon hasn't got a leg to stand on regarding another referendum.
    Scotland is only more socialist as long as it can fund it's plans. This is the reality of any socialist state.
  • I thought Scotland was only more socialist until you actually look into it. Surveys and research actually show a discrepancy between what they claim and what they actually want. The latter puts them closer to the English than not.

    Source was an interview on the radio with a prominent university of Strathclyde politics professor (not the pollster guy).

    I like the sound of a hate crime bill that catches out the Nats. Lock em up!! Lol
  • david37david37 Posts: 1,313

    I thought Scotland was only more socialist until you actually look into it. Surveys and research actually show a discrepancy between what they claim and what they actually want. The latter puts them closer to the English than not.

    Source was an interview on the radio with a prominent university of Strathclyde politics professor (not the pollster guy).

    I like the sound of a hate crime bill that catches out the Nats. Lock em up!! Lol

    Sadly the law appears to be applied selectivley. And SNP enthusiasm for the truth is equally selective if the SNP / Salmond spat is anything to go by. Probably best not to look too closely at sex acts being sent to primary schools either. Or ferry contracts. Wee Nippy will have y heeed

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