How much difference does it make — endurance vs. racer?

Sarden

Hi, my first post here ...

The image attached shows a black Cannondale Synapse (endurance) with a grey CAAD13 (race) superimposed on top of it (both are the 2021 models).

My question: How much difference does this slight difference in geometry actually make to the "feel" and the speed of a bike?

The riding positions must be very similar. The difference in handlebar height is not much more than the height of a spacer or two.

Has anyone tried both and can cast a bit of light on this?

Context: I'm buying my first sporty road bike since I was a teenager, and am undecided what to get. I just turned 50 but I'm fit (keen runner) and want a bike I can use for both fitness and exploring the (hilly) countryside. I won't be entering any races, but enjoy pushing myself a little.

Best buy? ...

rick_chasey

Endurance usually refers to amongst other things the dimensions of the frame.

Not just the position which tends to be more relaxed and less stretched out but also the rake and wheelbase etc which has an impact on handling.

It’s just a guide. If you’re getting stuck into the detail of the geometry of the frame, then you’re already ahead of the game

MidlandsGrimpeur2

Can't compare the CAAD13 but can compare the CAAD12. The geometry does make a difference to the feel of the bike IMO. The CAAD is a bit more responsive under hard acceleration and cornering seems to be able to hold a tighter line. You will also get more feedback from the road surface with the CAAD, some people may find this more uncomfortable but experimenting with different tyres and pressures can relieve some of this if required. The other major difference is position, the Synapse is going to position you a little higher and shorter in your reach to the bars to make riding more comfortable. It may seem like a small tweak in this regard but you will notice it on longer rides.

As for speed, it makes no difference at all, that is down to you!

As you are new to cycling and without wishing to offend, taking into account your age, most people will probably recommend prioritising the comfort of the Synapse, but it is really down to you. If you want a full on race bike go CAAD and if you want more of an all day cruiser go synapse.

elbowloh

I think also that the dropped seat stays on the Synapse will make it a little more compliant and comfortable.

Sarden

@elbowloh It's the CAAD13 that has the dropped seatstay

elbowloh

Oops. I just assumed the Synapse did due to it being an endurance bike. I haven't really followed Cannondale's range.

itboffin

I have a CAAD12 and its every bit as good as my bikes many times more expensive, light super fast and stiff in fact its so far my fastest bike and i have one that cost 4k another 8k the CAAD was 2k all in

andyrac

I've had both - and they're both nice bikes. I had a 52 CAAD 12, and a 54 Synapse.
The CAAD is noticeably more responsive, when compared to the Synapse.
For short blasts I'd pick the CAAD, but for longer, and maybe a bit of light off road I'd go for the Synapse.

pblakeney

No racing?
Go endurance. Simple logical conclusion.

shirley_basso

Not necessarily true at all.

I have only ever done 1 race but I like to ride fast (for me) and like a large bar/saddle drop. Plus people may prefer more direct steering.

ballysmate

pblakeney said:

No racing?
Go endurance. Simple logical conclusion.

Would seem so.

pblakeney

shirley_basso said:

Not necessarily true at all.

I have only ever done 1 race but I like to ride fast (for me) and like a large bar/saddle drop. Plus people may prefer more direct steering.

Look at the overlay. The steering is identical and a slight bend of the elbows will achieve the same position.

Sarden

I am currently leaning towards the CAAD. No, I won't be racing, but as @shirley_basso writes, I'd like a "direct" feel — a responsive bike.

I've also been digging a bit further, and some suggest that with a couple of spacers on a CAAD, you pretty much get the same riding position as on a Synapse — and it would seem it's almost as compliant too (at least the CAAD13 is).

So my current conclusion is that it would be easier to make the CAAD a bit more "endurancy" if I find it too racy, than it would be to make the Synapse more racy if I end up finding it a little dull.

But I'm still digging ... tough decision to make.

Sarden

In case anybody is facing a similar choice to mine, I thought I'd revisit this thread with an update.

In the end, I went with the Synapse. With the same groupset (Ultegra), the price I got offered was only marginally higher than the CAAD13, so I opted for the carbon frame.

Short conclusion:
I am very happy with my choice. The endurance bike feels racey and is comfortable at the same time. At least after a few tweaks.

Longer conclusion:
On my first ride, I felt very upright. The Synapse itself felt like a race bike, but the position I was in didn't. All the spacers were in, so the stack was as high as it would go.

I kept it that way for a couple of rides, and started to feel some pain in my back. Again, the riding position was too upright, which actually felt uncomfortable. To me it was at an unnatural point between my leisurely city bike and a race position. I felt more comfortable in the drops.

After a couple of iterations the Synapse is now set up like this:

All spacers removed but the headset top cap still in place (that's 30mm less stack) + I have replaced the 100mm stem with a 110mm one. My position is now a lot more racey, but actually more comfortable at the same time with no back pain. I can still be in the drops for miles without any issue.

So could I have gone for an outright race bike instead? Sure, seems like it. But the Synapse is flexible enough to be set up like one if you want to, and I get some added compliance, so to me it's been a win-win.

I replaced the stock wheels too, so the weight should now be around 7,8 kg putting it in race bike territory and feeling very responsive.

The best piece of advice I have found since buying the bike is this: "If you're flexible enough to be able to touch your toes when standing up with your legs stretched, get a race bike. If you're not, get an endurance bike."

I can touch my toes, just, so this tip seems to fit my experience. If you are unsure whether you're flexible enough to feel comfortable on an outright race bike, that's a quick way to get an idea.

And if you're still in doubt, get the endurance. It can easily be tweaked and turned into something practically identical to a full-on race bike.

vincesummerskRoxcBTr

Some endurance bikes can even fit proper mudguards 😉

DeVlaeminck

Isn't the Synapse a fairly racy endurance bike though?

I'm not flexible but I've always had a race bike as my best bike - but I've avoided some of the very aggressive aero bikes on the market. It's not just stack and reach as Rick says earlier there are things like rake, chainstay length etc that affect how the bike feels - if only marginally - but I prefer a lively bike and have never felt a bike needed more comfort.

Sarden

I think it sits in the middle of the field in terms of 'racyness' out of the box. E.g. Canyon's Endurace has a slightly more aggressive geometry.

I can't say I feel a need for the bike to be more lively. On fast descents, say, the bike feels very responsive and corners well. I can also see that the Synapse is used for Paris-Roubaix by the EF team, so it's definitely raceable.

But I actually don't know how much more compliant the Synapse is compared to, say, the Super Six Evo. It seems race bikes are moving towards more comfort. So for my next bike I might go for an outright race bike ... if I can still reach my toes, that is.

imposter2.0

Sorry, but 'racer' v 'endurance' is just an absurdity, fed to you by marketing people.

The truth is that race bikes are also - by definition - endurance bikes. They have to be. If they weren't, the 'racers' themselves would not be able to spend 5-6 hours on them during a classic like Milan-San Remo (other long races are available).

To be fair though, it is perhaps a slightly less ridiculous term than 'comfort bike' - which is also pretty stupid. But equally meaningless.

kieran240885

Interesting thread, I was in a similar predicament myself only Giant TCR V Defy when I was looking to replace my first bike (carrera). I went for the TCR in the end as I wanted an all out fast bike. I kept the carrera to use as a dad bike/all rounder. If I was only to choose one bike for it all I would have gone with the Defy.

Sarden

@imposter2.0 I think there's a good amount of truth in that. But the difference between the pros and the rest of us is that they sit on race bikes for hours every day, so they'll be a lot more flexible and have micro muscle strength to deal with more hardship on the road sitting on race bikes (i.e. non-endurance).

The fact that "endurance" bikes are in fact used to race on sometimes (e.g. in Paris - Roubaix) indicates to me that when the surface gets rougher than the slick roads they're used to, the pros also like a little bit of extra comfort — comfort that normal people riding on all sorts of roads may require more often.

But I'm speculating, of course. All I can say is that the Synapse now feels racy and anything but a "dad bike", while at the same time feeling relatively smooth, especially in the rear. The handlebar can still be a bit punishing on poor roads.

imposter2.0

Sarden said:

@imposter2.0 I think there's a good amount of truth in that. But the difference between the pros and the rest of us is that they sit on race bikes for hours every day, so they'll be a lot more flexible and have micro muscle strength to deal with more hardship on the road sitting on race bikes (i.e. non-endurance).

The fact that "endurance" bikes are in fact used to race on sometimes (e.g. in Paris - Roubaix) indicates to me that when the surface gets rougher than the slick roads they're used to, the pros also like a little bit of extra comfort — comfort that normal people riding on all sorts of roads may require more often.

But I'm speculating, of course. All I can say is that the Synapse now feels racy and anything but a "dad bike", while at the same time feeling relatively smooth, especially in the rear. The handlebar can still be a bit punishing on poor roads.

All I'm saying is that it's possible to race on an 'endurance' bike, be comfortable on a 'race' bike and be uncomfortable on a 'comfort' bike. What matters is how they are set up.

pippi_langsamer-2

I recently bought a Synapse carbon as a new "all weather", bike I could fit guards to. For what is classed as an "Endurance", frame I'm mightily impressed with how it rides.

I had a Cube Attain carbon previously, but hated it for it's overly upright Endurance feel. The Synapse is much more taught and feels much more a the "Race", end of things geometry and ride wise to the point that if I wazzed the mudguards and stuck some faster wheels on it, I'd have no issues racing on it.

All this is with the supplied heavy AF stock wheels too- currently waiting for some better all-round wheels which should shed ~600g

Sarden

@pippi_langsamer-2 Agree about the Synapse, and yes, I took off around half a kilo by replacing the stock wheels and tyres.