Comparing Road Bike Geometry




Hello All :

I am getting back to cycling after many-many years and of course have aged in-between. With this in mind I am trying to find a road bike that "sits" between a Race and an Endurance geometry. To get a better feel for this attached is a table of differing bikes and their geometries.

( Please Note : The numbers in red for the attached image is for the Pinarello Paris which the company states leans towards an Endurance while the Avant by Orbea maintains a true Endurance geometry. The numbers for all bikes are differences when compared to that of the Holdsworth which is the base for all other frames in this comparison ).

I plan on achieving the mentioned "in-between" geometries for a Race bike by incorporating a “Raise-Handlebar” ( which will add 20mm in Stack height and reduce Reach length by 5mm ), maintain the max number of Spacers under the stem, etc. which “should” bring me closer to an Endurance geometry with its more upright riding position. But there will not be much I can do with respect to the Reach variable besides a 5mm reduction.

Noting all of the above, my question is if by increasing the “Stack” through the mentioned methods will I get within the the ballpark figure of an Endurance Geometry “feel” ? Will a deficiency of say 10mm for Reach in particular prohibit a “feel” of an Endurance bike ?

To clarify : I am selecting a Race over an Endurance frame as overtime I hope to achieve a level of fitness where I can remove Spacers and revert to a Non-Raiser HandleBar and be able to ride a Race geometry comfortably.

I seek your insights based on your experiences as I reside in a country where Bike-Fits are available, but are not thorough, ( sadly most shops are not well informed as to the intricacies of a proper bike-fit ). In addition, the shops do not carry a range of bikes in variety or in sizes thus the importance of my getting a feel for the geometries "virtually”. And the kicker for me is once the bike is ordered, there will be no turning back so I’ve got to be as sure as I possibly can.

Hope what I am trying to achieve is clear and if there are other ways to achieve the same, please do share your thoughts and advice accordingly.

Thanks in advance.


Jai


Comments

  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    Can you provide a link for that table you attached, as even zooming to 300 percent it is difficult to read, not sharp?
    When you say riser handlebar, do you mean flipping the existing stem to the positive position, or do you mean using a handle bar like the Specialized hover bar?
  • My sincere apologies to dj58 and all -

    The chart that was uploaded was large and seems the forum's engine down-sized it - None-the-less, I should have checked which I did not - Sorry !

    Here is the chart in an enlarged from - Hope even with the forum's engine down-sizing the image it remains legible.

    I await to learn of your thoughts.


    Thanks !

    Jai
  • No success with the enlarged version as well - Seems the engine does in fact down-size files if larger than its limit.

    dj58. anyway for sharing the file with you directly ?

    I certainly would like your thoughts.

    Thanks.

    Jai
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    edited September 2020
    Hello Jai,
    Can you tell me the make, mode, frame size and year of manufacture, of the race bike you are thinking of purchasing?

    What you need to bear in mind is the effect the other aspects of the bikes race geometry will have on the handling/feel of the bike. E.g. seat tube angle, head tube angle, head tube length, fork rake and trail, and wheelbase as well as stack and reach, compared to an endurance model bike.

    Assuming you buy the correct size frame, you are not going to be able to replicate true "endurance feel" on a bike with race geometry, simply by inceasing the stack and/or shotening the reach IMO. You can change the stem length and angle to gain more stack/less reach and use a handlebar like the Specialized hover bar.

    https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001&searchText=21017-2036

    Do not be tempted to push the saddle all the way forward on its rails to reduce the reach as that will mess up you position over the cranks and affect your pedalling efficiency.

    https://blog.bikefit.com/how-to-fit-a-road-bicycle/

    https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/index/



  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    Hello Jai,
    Can you tell me the make, model, frame size and year of manufacture of the race bike you are purachasing? Here is a link to a bike fitting website which may help.
    https://blog.bikefit.com/how-to-fit-a-road-bicycle/
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    Jai,

    My thoughts on what you are proposing, I’m no expert on bike fitting. What you need to bear in mind is the other aspects of a bike’s geometry and how they affect how the bike rides "feels".

    The head tube angle and length, fork rake and trail, seat tube angle, chain stay length and wheelbase, top tube length, stack and reach will be different on an endurance bike, compared to a race bike.

    I don’t think you can replicate the exact characteristics, “feel”, of an endurance bike, on a bike with race geometry, simply by raising the stack and reducing the reach. Sure you can flip the stem up to the positive position and use a riser handlebar like the Specialized hover bar, which gives you an extra 15mm rise.

    https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001&searchText=21017-2036

    However that will not change the other characteristics I alluded to above.

    Others might have a different view on the subject.
  • dj58 said:

    Hello Jai,
    Can you tell me the make, model, frame size and year of manufacture of the race bike you are purachasing? Here is a link to a bike fitting website which may help.
    https://blog.bikefit.com/how-to-fit-a-road-bicycle/

    Hi DJ58 :

    The Bike-Fit link you shared is absolutely AMAZING - I'll certainly be reading through it carefully,

    Thanks !
  • dj58 said:

    Jai,

    My thoughts on what you are proposing, I’m no expert on bike fitting. What you need to bear in mind is the other aspects of a bike’s geometry and how they affect how the bike rides "feels".

    The head tube angle and length, fork rake and trail, seat tube angle, chain stay length and wheelbase, top tube length, stack and reach will be different on an endurance bike, compared to a race bike.

    I don’t think you can replicate the exact characteristics, “feel”, of an endurance bike, on a bike with race geometry, simply by raising the stack and reducing the reach. Sure you can flip the stem up to the positive position and use a riser handlebar like the Specialized hover bar, which gives you an extra 15mm rise.

    https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001&searchText=21017-2036

    However that will not change the other characteristics I alluded to above.

    Others might have a different view on the subject.




    Hi DJ58m :

    Appreciate your reply very much -

    Here are the bikes in question :

    I am looking to purchase the Orbea Orca ( OMR 2021 Model ) -

    And am comparing that to the Orbea 2021 Avant which is Orbea's Endurance model.

    Also comparing it to the Pinarello 2021 Paris. Based on Pinarello, this is a sort of blend between Race and leaning "just-a-bit" towards Endurance by employing a higher Stack and shorter Reach.

    The other bike that I have as a comparison is the Holdsworth 2021 Super Professional. Thought I would include this bike in the comparison as a friend has this bike in my size ( 51cms ) so that would provide me with some idea how its geometry feels as none of the other bikes are available for me to test-ride where I reside.

    I understand that an Endurance geometry is different form a Race geometry and that would "dictate" it's ride-feel - But as I have not ridden in a long while, I feel I may just need a bit of a "easing-in" period with a higher Stack and shorter Reach and overtime I "should" be able to become comfortable on the Race geometry of the Orbea without the need of a Raise HandleBar, etc.

    But after the "easing-in" period I do want the characteristics and feel of a Race bike.

    I thank you for the assistance you have extended me.


    Jai
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    edited September 2020
    Hello Jai

    Glad to be of some help.

    I did have a look at the Orbea website, however could only find a frameset for the Orca OMR, not the complete bike. I could not find the geometry table for the Orca or the Avant. I assume you are looking at the 51cm bike?

    I did find this review on bikeradar
    https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2021-orbea-orca-omr/
    It does mention in the section on geometry that there are two options for the cockpit set up, slammed race or the OC rise bar. I now understand what you are referring to in your first post. I would think that you will be fine with this bike as long as you buy the correct size.

    I did notice on the Orbea website that they have a bike sizing calculator
    https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/calculate-size/gender/carretera/

    Hope the purchasing experience goes well for you.
  • j_vora
    j_vora Posts: 63
    Hello DJ58 :

    The Orbea website is slightly difficult to navigate - Initially, I too had a bit of difficulty in locating the info I needed.

    Attached below are the Geometry Charts for both the Orbea Orca and Avant.

    I did select the Frame Size based on Orbea's Sizing Chart - The Red Rectangle is for the size that "should" fit me well, ie 51cm.

    I too feel I am on the right track, but as I will not be meeting the dealer face to face, I wanted to be as thorough as possible.

    Now just trying to create a paint scheme that Orbea's MYO Program permits - Its good fun, but also need to get it right.


    With appreciation,

    Jai








  • j_vora
    j_vora Posts: 63
    Sorry DJ58 - Attaching charts just does not work as expected -

    The files are down-sized to the point that they are not legible, alas !


    Thanks for all the support !


    Jai
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    Jai

    Not to worry, I did see the geometry table for the Orca in the bikeradar review I linked to in my last post. Don't forget that you can post a review of your own bike in the Your road bikes sub form on this Road cycling forum, if you want to show your new bike to others. Would be interested to see the colour scheme you decide on.
  • j_vora
    j_vora Posts: 63
    dj58 said:

    Jai

    Not to worry, I did see the geometry table for the Orca in the bikeradar review I linked to in my last post. Don't forget that you can post a review of your own bike in the Your road bikes sub form on this Road cycling forum, if you want to show your new bike to others. Would be interested to see the colour scheme you decide on.

    Hi :

    Happy share images the bike once it arrives - The color scheme is very minimalist. But it’s going to take a long-long while as Orbea at present takes close to 20 weeks to ship - So we are talking about March/April 2021 !!!

    The waiting time is going to be tough to say the least.



    Jai