Tubeless conversion using worn tyres

Idaven9869

Hi

I tried to convert to tubeless today but just could not seat the tyre.

The tyre/rim had soapy water on them (needed to get the tyre back on after applying the tape), and I could see that air was escaping between the bead and the rim tape (by the bubbles...)

I'm using a cheap Lifeline Track Pump - does this mean I need a more powerful pump/canister to deliver the air more forcefully and quickly, which will seat the tyre?

Another concern is this worn tyre has had 1 or 2 thorn punctures - would these small holes allow enough air to escape when trying to seat it?

Thanks in advance

JBA

What tyres are they? Folding or wired bead?

steve_sordy

The soapy water reduces friction between the tyre bead and the rim. This allows less air pressure to move the tyre bead onto the rim.

But your main problem is insufficient air flow. I use an Airshot and it has never failed me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjU9qarX2eg

But I still remove the valve core before inflating to allow a faster air flow into the tyre. Once the beads are on the rim, I add the valve core and inflate with the track pump to about 40psi, this is usually enough to ensure the beads have fully engaged with the rim. You should hear some startling loud cracks when that happens.

Tip1: I take to Airshot up to 130psi. More air is better for inflation.
Tip 2: Add the sealant before replacing the valve core.
Tip 3: If your tyre is not marked TR, UST or LUST, then use a latex based sealant, they work better to seal the porosity of the sidewalls.

Idaven9869

JBA - not sure, but they are WTB Vigilante High Grip Comp 2.3" front and WTB Trail Boss Comp 2.25" rear

Thanks Steve, that's really useful. You've confirmed what I suspected about the soapy water - problem is I could not get the tyre back on the rim without it! next time I'll dry the rim fully before inflating

I'll also try an airshot and make sure the core is out next time

Thanks again

Idaven9869

Actually forgot to ask Steve - do you think the one or two very small punctures are an issue?

Can the airshot get the air in faster than it will leak? And then get the sealant in pretty quick to seal it?

Or should I try and repair the hole in the tyre first?

mully79

ive got a home made "airshot" made from a 1.5 litre coke bottle and 8mm pneumatic hose.
Absolutely no chance of seating worn tyres without it.
If you get the bead to seal usually sealant takes care of the little holes.
50% of my worn tyres ive tried to seat tubeless have had a slash in them that i didnt notice !

Idaven9869

Thanks Mully, glad the little holes will be taken care of

I've already spent the £50 on the airshot now, coke bottle sounds a bit cheaper!

mully79

My method ;
I inflate without the valve core in. First seat the tyre. If the bead seals ok then fire the valve core in, pump the tyre up to say 60 psi. then spin it around. i usually do it off the bike so i can wave the tyre around and swish the sealant in all directions. Then stick it on the bike and ride up and down the street to help make sure the tyre is fully seated. good luck

Idaven9869

Airshot arrives tomorrow so will give it a try! Cheers for the advice

JBA

Idaven9869 said:

JBA - not sure, but they are WTB Vigilante High Grip Comp 2.3" front and WTB Trail Boss Comp 2.25" rear

WTB Comp tyres are not classed as tubeless ready. WTB state "Inner tube required".
When you took the tyres off did they crumble or stay circular and able to stand up and retain their shape? If it's the latter they have wire beads and will be much harder to set up tubeless as the beads cannot deform to tightly follow the contours of the rim.

steve_sordy

Idaven9869 said:

.........Thanks Steve, that's really useful. You've confirmed what I suspected about the soapy water - problem is I could not get the tyre back on the rim without it! next time I'll dry the rim fully before inflating
.............

I must not have been clear enough. There is no problem with using soapy water! (Other than wiping up afterwards). It does a really good job of helping the tyre bead onto the rim.

steve_sordy

Idaven9869 said:

Actually forgot to ask Steve - do you think the one or two very small punctures are an issue?

Can the airshot get the air in faster than it will leak? And then get the sealant in pretty quick to seal it?

Or should I try and repair the hole in the tyre first?

I very much doubt they would make a difference, especially when compared to the massive gaps between the tyre bead and the wheel as the air starts flowing in. Once the Airshot has EXPLODED the tyre onto the rim, the hard part is done.

The sealant should seal the holes unless they are big. If you have any doubt use an inner tube patch on the inside of the tyre.

Don't forget to check that the tyre is mounted on the rim correctly. Check the train tracks.

Idaven9869

JBA said:

Idaven9869 said:

JBA - not sure, but they are WTB Vigilante High Grip Comp 2.3" front and WTB Trail Boss Comp 2.25" rear

WTB Comp tyres are not classed as tubeless ready. WTB state "Inner tube required".
When you took the tyres off did they crumble or stay circular and able to stand up and retain their shape? If it's the latter they have wire beads and will be much harder to set up tubeless as the beads cannot deform to tightly follow the contours of the rim.

Thanks for your reply @JBA - I have just realised my own stupidity When I looked at the specification for the bike (Bossnut) I was skim reading and saw WTB...tubeless. Unfortunately it is the WTB rims that are listed as tubeless ready. The WTB Comp tyres definitely aren't, like you said.

They are also wired beads so all in all this was never going to work!

I'm assuming there is no point at all in trying even with the Airshot now, and I must get some tubeless tyres?

And @steve_sordy thanks again for the advice, glad the soapy water is fine to use and that the small holes wouldn't have affected it (although it will probably be brand new tyres based on my mistake above!)

mully79

I have mounted several wired tyres. My conti barons have been in the garage since 2014 and they went on with only a bit of faff.
My wired magic marys were the easiest of the lot.

steve_sordy

Yep @Mully79 I was going to say that I can't see why wired tyres wouldn't go tubeless. It might take a bit more effort, but any tiny gaps between the wired bead and the rim should be sealed by the sealant. That's what it does!

When I remove a TR tyre from the rim, the beads are clogged with dried sealant. So much so that I have to strip it off before I refit it.

JBA

I didn’t say you can’t set wired bead tyres up tubeless. I said it will be harder.
At least that is my experience from trying once a few years ago.
Give it a go and see how you get on, @Idaven9869.

Idaven9869

Just popped back to let you know how this was resolved...

I ended up buying some new tyres (partly peace of mind and partly because I can't stop buying things for the bike) - went with 2 x Maxxis Minion DHFs. Look great on the bike

The Airshot and soapy water sealed the tyres in no time, and removing the valve core also made it easier - sound advice all round.

Front tyre took a day to seal (?), and rear tyre sealed straight away. No more thorn punctures for me

Thanks again

steve_sordy

Idaven9869 said:

..............

Front tyre took a day to seal (?), and rear tyre sealed straight away. No more thorn punctures for me
...........

You will STILL get punctures!!!
What you will get much less of is Flats.

Idaven9869

You know what I meant

Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it

steve_sordy

I suspected as much, but others wouldn't have. I try to make my posts informative to all.