Dilemma, Chinarello, ride it or bin it?

jdmorzine1

So I've been a bit of an idiot and ended up with what looks 99% sure to be a fake Pinarello Dogma F8 - I'm hoping that Pinarello comes back to me confirming it's a good one but that's looking pretty slim.

I've been out for one pretty solid ride on it so far, 120km, 3000m of climbing including Col de Joux Plan and hitting around 80kmph on the descent (NB: At that stage, it hadn't crossed my mind it might be a fake). The bike rode really well, absolutely loved it, so here's my dilemma.

If it does turn out to be fake do I keep riding it or ditch it? I've been hunting around online to find horror stories about fake bikes breaking etc but all I can seem to find is that the paint jobs can be a bit dodgy or they'll weigh more than the originals.

So what are your thoughts? Ride it, bin it? Does anyone have any first-hand experience of these things breaking or other issues with them? Most of the finishing kit on the bike seems to be only available on aliexpress so I reckon that's where the frame came from as well - have you ever heard of Shimano di2 getting faked as well (it works perfectly!) so I'm thinking I may have just paid a little over the odds for a groupset if that's the only thing I keep from it.

Any advice much appreciated whilst I cry into my bucket of self-pity.

fenix

You'll find stories of all brands of bike breaking if you look hard enough.

Where was it from ? Any pics ?

redvision

If it is a far East copy it doesn't necessarily mean it's dangerous or sub standard. Depends who made it.

Why do you suspect its not a genuine Pinarello anyway??

joe_totale-2

There's places which use ultrasound to scan carbon frames to verify their integrity, it's not cheap but it's cheaper than a new bike.

Jdmorzine

I've bought it second hand from someone 600km away. Alarm bells started ringing when I started googling the finishing kit - it's all off of aliexpress... even the hubs in the alleged Mavic cosmic wheels (do mavic sell cosmic rims only??).

I cant see anything shoddy on the frame other than the serial number looking a bit dodgy - it doesn't have a bar code next to it and type font looks a bit naf. I've ridden it a few times and I'm really happy with how it rides, just a bit panicked about a full on failure when flying down a mountain!

50x11

How did you buy it and pay for it? if it;s fake and not been sold as such I know someone who managed go reclaim money through ebay for mis selling. How much did you pay?

jdmorzine1

I should be able to put a claim through on the PayPal buyer protection under their 'significantly not as sold' clause - there was no mention of it being a fake. Just waiting for confirmation back from Pinarello that it's dodgy before starting the claim.

jdmorzine1

and moments later, confirmed as a fake...

shirley_basso

Sorry to hear that. Good of them to confirm. Best of luck getting your money back - what a shyster.

fenix

That's a censored .
Carbonbikerepair.co.uk has a guide to spotting a fake Pinarello but doesn't say if it's a danger to ride.

shirley_basso

My 2 cents re: Fakes

1) Nothing wrong with chinese made bikes, most bikes are made there and their manufacturing seems pretty damn good. There are a lot of 'open' designs where anyone is free to use a mould and freestyle with their own carbon layup to make a bike as they please. There are quite a few well established chinese brands out there with pretty respectable customer service and fallback. I can't remember the names, sorry.
2) Not sure I would go for chinese carbon bars, but that's just me. Lots happy users. I have Alu bars on both my bikes anyway. I have ridden chinese wheels and they have been fine, although the spokes, nipples and hubs have been a bit cheap - but you can pay for much better ones if you want.

3) Fakes - basically a copy of the frame design stickered up to look like the real deal - which if feels like your Dogma is. This is where I am less comfortable. As there is an intent to deceive, it's hard to know what the quality of the carbon & quality control would be like.

It's not that clear cut as someone else may be more relaxed than I am.

Given you are riding in the mountains, the margin for error is much greater - I would be tempted to get my money back and either get a brand new proper chinese open mould bike, or go genuine used.

joe2019

If it was sold as genuine you'll have a very good case for a refund with Pinarello confirming it as a fake.

As said before, it's not that there is necessarily anything wrong with the frame.

It may even have been made in the same factory, and by the same people, as a genuine Pinarello, it's the deception of the seller that needs addressing.

Good luck with your claim.

daniel_b

Good luck with getting a refund, what a pain - as shirley basso mentioned, with those type of descents, it's not worth the risk.
Maybe you can get a refund and keep the parts or something?

As an aside, my brother lives in Champoluc, and I'm pretty sure has mentioned that route to me.

Riding there last year, the road surfaces were not tremendous, and he's had a wheel go out of true in recent months, which kinds of supports the 'you need a strong frame and bike' argument.

imposter2.0

I would just draw the distinction between a 'Chinese made frame' and a 'Chinese copy'. As already pointed out, Chinese carbon manufacturing is generally right up there with the best and they have a lot of experience and expertise. Companies like Winspace, BXT, Avenger and others make frames for a lot of the mainstream manufacturers anyway, and their own frames are also excellent.

However, I'd be less certain about a frame where the purpose is simply to make it look like something else. To me, that falls into the category of 'fake' and it seems far more likely that corners will have been cut during production.

ugo.santalucia

daniel_b said:

As an aside, my brother lives in Champoluc, and I'm pretty sure has mentioned that route to me.
.

Miles away from Morzine and different country. I think you are confusing the Col de Joux in Italy with the Col de Joux Plane in France... the former is occasionally featured in the Giro, typically followed by a finish at Cervinia and more often than not a disappointing stage, the latter is occasionally featured in the Tour, it was part of the 1998 TdF won by Pantani.

jdmorzine1

Thanks all, plenty of food for thought as to what to do. Looks like the claim won't get through, I bought the bike in my second language (that I'm pretty fluent in) but one slight nuance or it means I didn't realise the seller meant the frame was a copy...

If anyone's ever thinking of buying a frame/bike in France and it says 'cadre générique' that doesn't mean it's for both male & female, it means it's a copy...

live and learn... at least I have a nearly new ultegra di2 groups set and a nice piece of pinarello'esq wall art...

ugo.santalucia

How about the wheels? Generic with Mavic stickers?

joe_totale-2

ugo.santalucia said:

How about the wheels? Generic with Mavic stickers?

Looks like that to me, never seen Mavic Cosmic Carbons with red hubs.
I could be wrong but the font/mavic logo sticker looks a bit off as well.

joe2019

jdmorzine1 said:

Thanks all, plenty of food for thought as to what to do. Looks like the claim won't get through, I bought the bike in my second language (that I'm pretty fluent in) but one slight nuance or it means I didn't realise the seller meant the frame was a copy...

If anyone's ever thinking of buying a frame/bike in France and it says 'cadre générique' that doesn't mean it's for both male & female, it means it's a copy...

live and learn... at least I have a nearly new ultegra di2 groups set and a nice piece of pinarello'esq wall art...

Still could be a perfectibly useable frame, it would be worth an inspection:

http://carbonfibrerepair.com/ultrasound-inspection

jdmorzine1

joe_totale-2 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

How about the wheels? Generic with Mavic stickers?

Looks like that to me, never seen Mavic Cosmic Carbons with red hubs.
I could be wrong but the font/mavic logo sticker looks a bit off as well.

Hubs are Powerway carbone r36 céramique hub - rims I'm guessing are from Aliexpress where everything else came from! Stem is a superlogic (non-Ritchey) that's a whopping €12.99... replace it yesterday and looked inside at the carbon, to be fair I have no idea what I'm looking at but it all seems neat and tidy and weighs about the same as the syncros I've replaced it with.

darrell1967

How much did it cost?