Upgrading an Older Road Bike (Part 2)

nbuuifx
nbuuifx Posts: 302
Last September I posted on here about upgrading my Trek 1000SL.

It is knocking on a bit and things are worn. I bought it second hand at least 6 years ago and have done a fair few thousand miles whilst doing very little to the bike (new pads and tyres).

I've had an issue with the front rings not changing properly for a few years and it has got steadily worse. The front derailleur looks like it has been bodged in the past.

I've just taken the rear cassette off to clean properly - which then surprised me when it fell apart whilst brushing it. The pin going through mustn't have been tight at all. Anyway it gave me chance to clean them better - hopefully I've put them back the right way?!

How can I tell if the cassette is worn out and in need of replacement?

I've put some photos of the cassette and a few of the derailleur onto an album: https://ibb.co/album/Scw2Dq


My original post back in Sept was asking whether I would be better to upgrade and perhaps replace with a 10 speed cassette?

What are your thoughts on what I should do based on the photos etc.

The rear gears shift fairly well, it is mainly the fronts I was having problems with but as you can see from the photos, someone in the past has twisted wire around the limit screws - you can still turn them in and out but the screw heads are pretty chewed up. It also has a bodged crimp on the cable!


My only other complaints with the bike are a creaking from the front (but I've just taken the fork off and regreased the bearings so hopefully I've fixed that!) and the brakes - they are the best they've been after I cleaned up the braking surface with wet and dry and replaced the pads but they are still dire in the wet and not that great in the dry!







Comments

  • nbuuifx
    nbuuifx Posts: 302
    The front rings are 30/42/52.

    The front derailleur is a Shimano FD-2203 34.9 Diameter bracket - is there anything which would be a good bolt on upgrade to this if I left everything else the same?
  • nbuuifx
    nbuuifx Posts: 302
    Just checked chain wear - using vernier calipers I used this guide:

    New chain= 5.715 inches/145.161mm
    1/2% stretched (consider looking for a replacement)= 5.745 inches/145.923mm
    3/4% stretched (replace)= 5.760 inches/146.304mm
    1% stretched (replace immediately along with new drivetrain)= 5.775 inches/146.685mm

    Mine was approx 146mm which puts it between 1/2% and 3/4% so it is getting on for needing a replacement.

    So if the cassette teeth look ok - which I think they do (can anyone confirm from the pictures in the link on the first post?), I might be able to get away with a cheap repair by just replacing the front mech and the chain and reindexing. What do you reckon?
  • junglist_matty
    junglist_matty Posts: 1,731
    TL/DR what the hell is going on with the limit screw on that front mech!? New front mechs cost peanuts - get one.

    Why new chain? Is it slipping when you "go hard"? ...or is it just that front shifting is poor?

    Looking at how grubby the photos are, I would get new chain and cassette, buy only if it's slipping under load - otherwise leave it until it does and then replace both. Front shifting is probably due to poor setup, nothing to with chain wear.... Or maybe your front rings are worn away, but if they were the cause of poor shifting I'd expect you'd get chain slip under load.
  • nbuuifx
    nbuuifx Posts: 302

    TL/DR what the hell is going on with the limit screw on that front mech!? New front mechs cost peanuts - get one.

    Why new chain? Is it slipping when you "go hard"? ...or is it just that front shifting is poor?

    Looking at how grubby the photos are, I would get new chain and cassette, buy only if it's slipping under load - otherwise leave it until it does and then replace both. Front shifting is probably due to poor setup, nothing to with chain wear.... Or maybe your front rings are worn away, but if they were the cause of poor shifting I'd expect you'd get chain slip under load.

    Thanks, no it isn't slipping. In fact the gears at the back are working very well at the moment. The rear cassette has cleaned up well and I've been comparing photos of new cassettes against it and I don't think it is particularly worn, the chain rings show a bit of wear to the faces but the teeth all look good.

    The front shifting is terrible, and previous adjustments I've tried haven't done a lot. The wire around the H/L screws has been there since I got it - I just left it alone as the screws turn within it. I have cut it off today though.

    I have to mess about a fair bit to change gear on the front mech. It runs perfectly fine in the middle ring, but when dropping down it occasionally makes the chain drop off but only when on the easiest gear at the back. I very rarely use the small ring but when I do it is normally on very steep hills, so it isn't fun for the chain to drop off!

    It moves from small to middle ring absolutely fine. Moving from middle to big ring is very difficult and I often have to give up. It used to be that I would move the lever all the way across once, let it return, then press it all the way across again and it would go in. Now it won't go in, I have to hold it all the way across and then move the rear gears up and down and it will sometimes jump in at the front. Coming down from the big ring, if I press it once it kind of goes half way and rubs between the big ring and the middle ring, so I have to press it again to find the middle ring.

    It normally leads me to leaving the bike in one front ring.

    As for the chain - from measuring it is about time to replace.

    So my current train of thought is to forget about all the upgrades, and perhaps just buy a new chain, and a front mech. Then see how that goes.

    My biggest issue is that I can't find the same model of front mech anywhere and I'm not sure what will be compatible.

    The current one is a FD-2203 with a 34.9 diameter. Triple 8 speed and needs to fit a 52T ring. Any ideas what would be a suitable replacement?

    I found some that are the wrong diameter, some that go up to a 50T ring, some that are doubles, but nothing that seems to fit everything!
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,559
    This should work as a replacement front mech
    https://chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-sora-r3030-9sp-road-front-derailleur/rp-prod154294

    Front derailleurs were fairly interchangeable between 8, 9 and (early) 10 speed. For triple cranksets, Shimano numbering had triple compatible ones as “Tiagra 4703” for example - ending in 03 was the clue. Although that 4703 model may not play as nice with your shifters so I’d suggest the Sora instead.
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,559
    Hmm, edit, just noted you want a 52T front... might be harder to find
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • nbuuifx
    nbuuifx Posts: 302

    Hmm, edit, just noted you want a 52T front... might be harder to find

    Yeah nothing quite seems to fit. I've been through loads of listings looking!
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,559
    Actually, go here:
    https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Component?name=Front%20Derailleur&type=ROAD

    This is Shimano’s technical documents info linked at front derailleurs.

    Look for any part numbers ending in “03” as triples, Have a read of the “SI” document which is the main install and specification sheet, then check eBay for local stock.
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • junglist_matty
    junglist_matty Posts: 1,731
    This one should be fine...

    https://www.bike24.com/p215751.html
  • nbuuifx
    nbuuifx Posts: 302

    This one should be fine...

    https://www.bike24.com/p215751.html

    Good find!

    Will the fact that it is 10 speed cause me any problems? Everything else matches properly.

    I read somewhere that obviously 10 speed will more or less work in the same way as there are still 3 positions but that the guide can be different in width which can cause more rubbing with a wider 8 speed chain. Do you think this will cause an issue?
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    The cassette looks worn to me - the teeth are all taking on a shark fin profile. The chain and cassette have worn together so putting a new chain on (as the old is likely to be worn beyond limits) could result in worse shifting. I’d change both together for just over £30. This is a good read; https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chain-wear.html

    The chainrings are also pretty worn, especially the middle ring, but not too bad. The photos aren’t perfectly clear, but the middle chainring teeth look particularly ‘spikey’, which looks like the most used chainring. As they, like the cassette have worn together the likelihood is that the front shifting (from a chain/ chainring perspective) could actually worsen with a simple new chain fit. Perhaps fit a new middle chainring if the other too aren’t to bad.

    Front derailleurs are so cheap, and someone has linked to one above, I wouldn’t mess around with the old one - just fit a new one. If the cables are ancient as well it would be worth fitting new cables if you want good shifting. It does however also depend on your shifters - that’s the problem when you get to really old bikes, like cars, everything tends to be worn out! If the shifters are ok, then new cassette, chain and chainring(s), possibly with new cables (depending on their age/ performance) would get your shifting back to spec.

    I would also get the hanger checked for perfect alignment with a proper tool if you do go down that route, just to eliminate that as a possible cause of less than optimal shifting with new components.

    PP
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    Forgot to add, search ‘shimano compatibility chart‘ to get the official Shimano take on which components will work together. It may not be the final word as people will get things to work that aren’t listed as compatible, but will be a starting point.

    PP
  • nbuuifx
    nbuuifx Posts: 302
    edited June 2020

    Forgot to add, search ‘shimano compatibility chart‘ to get the official Shimano take on which components will work together. It may not be the final word as people will get things to work that aren’t listed as compatible, but will be a starting point.

    PP

    I didn't read your post before I started fiddling with it again today!

    I'd kind of made my mind up that the cassette and chain rings were ok, so I cleaned them all up and put a new chain on. I would like to change the front mech but as I couldn't get one straight away, I took the current one off and cleaned it up. The H screw was a bit loose and it looked to be that the thread on the screw was a bit worn - for now I put a slightly long M4 allen bolt in.

    I've put it all back together and I seem to have got all the gears set correctly on the stand. Just need to test ride and see if it all works correctly under stress.

    My only concern is that the H screw ended up backed out all the way which I thought was unusual but everything seems to run ok with only minor rubbing when crossing the chain which I try not to do on the road anyway.

    If the rear cassette does play up now (as that was good with the old chain) then I'll look into replacing the whole lot. If I still can't get the front sorted, then I'll order a new front mech.

    On the subject of the front mech... I found one that matches mine but had a diffferent diameter clamp or a braze on one. Can I buy either of these and just use my clamp? I hadn't realised until today that the clamp just bolts on.
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,559
    You can use a braze-on, and even if it doesn’t fit the clamp on yours, you can get clamp adaptors for them anyway for a few bucks.
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • nbuuifx
    nbuuifx Posts: 302
    Well took it for a test ride (all tests nicely on the stand).

    Started off in the lowest gear, back gears changed nice and smooth. Moved up to the middle ring, again all rear gears moved smoothly. Pressed the lever for the big ring but it didn't quite make it and rubbed against the ring, let the lever returned and pressed it again and it made it up on to the top ring, again back gears all changed freely - slight rubbing as it began to cross to the biggest ring. Obviously I wouldn't ride it like that so I was happy.

    Then I went to drop it back down to the middle ring but it wouldn't drop off the big ring. I pressed it again and it went past the little ring and onto the frame.

    So I need to go and have another fiddle - once back on again it moved up freely but I avoided moving it down again!