Debating a gravel bike

daniel_b

Evening,

I did have it in my head to try and build up an Addict over the next couple of years, but I might be coming round to the idea of considering a gravel bike.

We have, apparently, quite a lot of decent riding near us, and quite a few from the lbs ride out regularly.

I have bought some narrower tyres which I will fit to my 2006 Marin hardtail, to see if that means I can keep in reasonable contact, but if I really enjoy the terrain, then I might seriously consider a drop bar bike.

Come December my c2w scheme becomes available again and I have a 2k limit, though I know places where I can top it up.

I know precious little about gravel bikes, other than that I will probably want carbon if it lands within budget, and hyd discs.

Critically would you stick to inner tubes or go tubeless?
I have not been brave enough to try it on any bike yet, so no prior experience, though from friends I hear as many negative as positive experiences.

I do really like Scott, and I think they make a gravelesque bike.

Light would be good, but I have no idea what an average weight is for a gravel bike, 9kg?

Any market leading makes & models people would recommend?

Thanks

Dan

fenix

Planet X have a few to choose from.
I'm still not sure what one is really? Wide tyres ? I guess you could make it into a winter bike if it takes mudguards.

What do pros ride on Strade Bianche ? Isn't that the ultimate gravel ride ?

I suspect marketing plays a big part.

mrb123

Really pleased with the Orro Terra C I picked up in that Tri UK sale.

I got the 105 one but they do a GRX 1x model.

Carbon frame. Weighs about 9kg. Finishing kit is all pretty well thought out.

https://winstanleysbikes.co.uk/orro-terra-c-adventure-grx-2020-bike

luv2ride

Dan. You should go tubeless as the lower pressures transform comfort on rough tracks. Simple to set up post-purchase, just make sure rims are tubeless ready if not set up tubeless from the shop. I wouldn't worry too much about it being carbon either (I know theyre made to take some abuse but i still worry about rock and stone strikes impacting carbon downtubes!) Big tyre clearance is the key I'd say. For me I'd want 40mm min 700c, or 50mm 650b...you may need to decide whether you want a 'fast gravel racer' (Cervelo Aspero, Scott Addict Gravel) or a more versatile gravel/tourer type, capable of bikepacking with loads of frame mounts, is more what you are after...
Tonnes of choice out there. New Shimano GRX groupset also getting lots of love, though I like Sram 1x myself.
Planet X Tempest looks very good, or their carbon On One Space Chicken or Freeranger

joe_totale-2

Tubeless is a must, the ability to run lower pressures and also avoid pinch punctures is invaluable. I also find it a bit easier to set up and forgiving compared to road tubeless, perhaps it's the lower tyre pressures.

I would agree with the others about going with Planet X and getting the Tempest but I'm fairly sure they don't take c2w.

I'd personally favour a metal gravel bike over a carbon one, I just find it more reassuring when bits of gravel are striking my alloy frame then if it was a nice carbon one. In terms of comfort the tyres do far more than the frame material.

Canyon Grail looks like good value and if you order one now it may arrive in 2 years time, if you must have carbon though this looks good:

https://www.dolan-bikes.com/dolan-gxc-carbon-disc-gravel-bike-shimano-grx-rx600-1x11-hdr/

Look for lower gearing than on the road, at least a 1:1 lowest gear is advised, this is more important than being too fussy about weight IMO.
Those gravel 15 - 20% ramps are tougher than anything on the road.

daniel_b

Wow thankyou all, didn't expect so many replies :-)

Plenty to be looing at thankyou, and no I won't rule out aluminium.

I have noticed the GT Grade, and Cannondale Topstone are looking pretty nice, the latter now available with a lefty fork, so a small amount of suspension both front and a pivoting rear - it's not cheap though, but might be available with a small reduction come the end of the year, IF they have any left in stock.

I think the GT is better value, as it comes with Ultegra Di2, and has fibreglass rear stays that provide the flex - nothing up front of course.

I can't see me being able to bikepack anytime soon, so probably after a more speed orientated bike.

luv2ride

That new Grade is supposed to be very good

joe_totale-2

Cycling Tips did a big group test of a bunch of good quality gravel bikes, it'd be well worth reading up on that.

daniel_b

Cheers both, will check out the cycling tips write up :-)

daniel_b

On a quick glance, the Grade seems to have an outlandishly long top tube.
I normally ride a 54 road bike with a 545 TT and a 110mm stem.
The Grade in it's smallest size (48) has a 545 top tube!
The dale seems more normally sized, their Small is 544, and Medium is 561.

Do people tend to run these with shorter stems, or maybe they come with shorter stems as standard?

Not examined stack height, reach and angles etc yet, which may explain the seemingly long top tubes.

spatt77

hi, Ive just sold a GT Grade 2015, it was a good bike but was missing a couple of important features for me. Im going to buy another gravel bike but on the "must haves" are fully hydraulic brakes, bolt through axle and I`d be wanting at least 40mm plus tyre capabilities on a 700c wheel. Also gearing is important , i`ll be going with Shimano grx on my next one! hope this helps

pippi_langsamer-2

If you're looking at a faster Gravel bike, I'd have a look at the Orbea Terra range too. The Terra m20-d 1x is probably what's going to get my $ soon enough. They also do several other variants in 2x, alu, etc etc. Also get to design your own paint scheme for free (although the stock schemes are also nice). Reviews are very good....

https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles/road/terra

daniel_b

Thanks both, will check those out - was aware of Orbea but never looked into their offerings. Wonder if they will c2w though.

I'm a bit old school, so I think I would wnt a double at the front - I have a boardman hybrid thing for mostly family rides, towing children, and that has a single at the front, and it's ok, but the gappiness of the changes gets a tad annoying, and I can imagine (for me) on a longer ride I may get tired of it.

Hyd discs will indeed be a must have - not up on wheel securing methods, but I assume the bolt through axle (It has another name I think?) seems to be the new standard?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

..

daniel_b

N0bodyOfTheGoat said:

Daniel, what happened to your Boardman HYB 8.9? That would make a perfect gravel bike.

I still have it, it's flat bar though, and currently has a follow me tandem attached - I would have thought the cost of converting to drop bars, and associated shifters would make it a bit of a nonsense? Plus presumably geometry will then be somewhat out.

In hindsight I should have bought the CX version.

daniel_b

Yes that's a fair point actually. And was indeed the driver for flat bars initially.

daniel_b

@L2R - I may be re-considering the bike for bikepacking, and it would be nice to have that as an option in the long run.

I'm unlikely to go full on wild camping style, so am wondering if I need to get one that can take front and rear racks, for panniers, or whether a super huge saddle pack, which I already have, along with a frame bag, top tube bag, and bag on the front of the bars is sufficient, or how much does that degrade your enjoyment of riding the bike?

I ask, as I think you do some bikepacking, but not sure how you kit our your bike?

The Cervelo Aspero has caught my eye, mainly because it is a make I can source from my LBS and I like to support them when I can, especially for big purchases, and also because it is a rather attractive looking bike to my mind.
The downside, if that is indeed what it is, is the lack of mounting points for pretty much anything, aside from a top tube bag.


It has Sram Apex on it, which is ok I guess - I have a SRAM Rival hyd bike, and it's been ok, but it's definitely more pernickety than Shimano with regards to setup.
But then I also notice Apex is a rung down from Rival.

I think a Topstone with the rear pivoting stays is near the top of my list presently, 105 is the best value by a country mile, but then once I look at Ultegra a bit more again can get the lefty 3, which is tempting as it really catches my eye design wise.

My LBS also sells Giant, Specialized and Whyte, but none of their offerings really seem to inspire me.

EDIT: I have just noticed you mentioned the Aspero up top L2R!
Addict would be considered too, as I do like my Scotts.

joe_totale-2

The Aspero looks like a lovely frame and the reviews for it suggest it rides like lightning.
However, from personal experience 1x Apex is bobbins, I just can't get the shifting completely right on it and I've seen online that this is an issue for others as well.
The braking is good but not as good as Shimano hydro.

IMO it's like putting a Ford Fiesta engine in a Ferrari. If it was up to me I'd look to have either GRX or the fancy SRAM AXS on a bike like the Aspero but I understand that this could blow the budget.

daniel_b

joe_totale-2 said:

The Aspero looks like a lovely frame and the reviews for it suggest it rides like lightning.
However, from personal experience 1x Apex is bobbins, I just can't get the shifting completely right on it and I've seen online that this is an issue for others as well.
The braking is good but not as good as Shimano hydro.

IMO it's like putting a Ford Fiesta engine in a Ferrari. If it was up to me I'd look to have either GRX or the fancy SRAM AXS on a bike like the Aspero but I understand that this could blow the budget.

Hey Joe, yes I would tend to afree qith you on that, purely based on my Rival experience - and the only reason I ended up with Rival, was also because that was the only groupset the 2015 Synapse Adventure came with!

This is the Topstone Lefty 3 which will divide opinion, and although it is heavy, I am lured in towards the rocks by all the siren like tech I have to be honest:

Oh and it's green.

luv2ride

If it were me I'd steer clear of the Topstone lefty, only because when I went to a shop to look at a Slate with a lefty fork, the guys in the shop really put me off it (and they had one in my size ready to go). Basically they said they'd had loads of warranty issues with the wheels with proprietry singlesided hubs, and the fork's service intervals seemed to be ridiculously short. I really loved the idea of the Slate but ownership didn't look like it'd be problem free. They may have resolved some of the issues with the hubs, wheels and fork on the Topstone lefty, but frankly the Topstone without the lefty fork looks to be a killer bike, without the complication.
The Aspero looks ace but its niche is a carbon gravel racer. That said, anything with wide 650b tyres should feel plush enough offroad. Just my opinion
I've got gravel bikes with 1x Apex and 1X Rival and both have been very reliable and sweet shifting...

moonshine

daniel_b said:

@L2R - I may be re-considering the bike for bikepacking, and it would be nice to have that as an option in the long run.

I'm unlikely to go full on wild camping style, so am wondering if I need to get one that can take front and rear racks, for panniers, or whether a super huge saddle pack, which I already have, along with a frame bag, top tube bag, and bag on the front of the bars is sufficient, or how much does that degrade your enjoyment of riding the bike?

I ask, as I think you do some bikepacking, but not sure how you kit our your bike?

The Cervelo Aspero has caught my eye, mainly because it is a make I can source from my LBS and I like to support them when I can, especially for big purchases, and also because it is a rather attractive looking bike to my mind.
The downside, if that is indeed what it is, is the lack of mounting points for pretty much anything, aside from a top tube bag.


It has Sram Apex on it, which is ok I guess - I have a SRAM Rival hyd bike, and it's been ok, but it's definitely more pernickety than Shimano with regards to setup.
But then I also notice Apex is a rung down from Rival.

I think a Topstone with the rear pivoting stays is near the top of my list presently, 105 is the best value by a country mile, but then once I look at Ultegra a bit more again can get the lefty 3, which is tempting as it really catches my eye design wise.

My LBS also sells Giant, Specialized and Whyte, but none of their offerings really seem to inspire me.

EDIT: I have just noticed you mentioned the Aspero up top L2R!
Addict would be considered too, as I do like my Scotts.

Are you in central Scotland (Velocity 44 as your local shop given the range you quote them stocking?)
Ive got the Cervelo C3, which is the more road orientated version that pre-dated the Aspero - and PAul said the C3 is being dropped from the Cervelo range now presumably the aspero is taking its place -

Whilst the C3 has the ability to mount full mudguards - there is still no rack mounts - however i am likely to address this bu adding a Taoldin rack - https://www.tailfin.cc/ that allows a rack to be fitted off the Thru-axle - so will work on the Aspero too - not cheap - but I’m impressed with the design.

If the aspero rides anywhere as good as the C3, it will be awesome - i love the C3..
the Cervelo website suggests you can get the Aspero in SRAM Apex or Shimano GRX - but Paul from Velocity 44 said many manufacturers are struggling with SHimano groupset availability as it comes from manufacturing plants in Malasyia, and plants have been shut down die to CV19 - which has adversely impacted supply - so bike manufacturers are switching to SRAM Apex in order to meet supply / demand

cruff

I bought an Aspero last week, after umming and aahing about it for months. Like you, I didn't want the Apex and didn't fancy spending another 2 grand for the full monty eForce, so went for the Shimano GRX

I've done four rides on it since buying it and can confirm that it is an absolute missile of a bike. One of those rides was exclusively on road apart from one trail (just so I could get used to it) and I averaged 20mph over 40 miles, with 38mm gravel tyres on, so it's no slouch of a bike on the road. On the trails (there's not a huge amount of proper gravel where I am, more trails and mud runs) it glosses over my serious lack of talent. I point it at the trail and it feels like it drags me down it.

In short, I absolutely love it 😊

N0bodyOfTheGoat

You could test ride one on Zwift.

daniel_b

@L2R - thankyou, I know you are right for sure, and that's a real shame that it has had issues, and once out of warranty I guess you are somewhat screwed.
It's a shame the solid front form Ultegra is actually more than the lefty.
In that respect the £2100 105 setup is evidently the best vfm, but then 105 usually is.
Shame the colours are uber boring, but maybe 2021 will bring some improvements.
Interesting both your SRAM setups are fine - I have a suspicion the mounting surfaces on my Synapse are not as plumb as they should be, and that is likely most of my issues with regards to the brake setup.
Gearing is also not quite as accurate/dependable as my 6800 Ultegra though.

@Moonshine - nope, down in Berkshire mate.
I do recall the tailfin when it came out, but mucho money now it's off of the kickstarter deal, if it wasn't to start with, but I don't doubt it's pedigree and effectiveness.
Ah yes, good call on the GRX option, have now found it for £3600 - and that Olive paintjob is stunning.
No rush for me, looking to C2W this, so will be the end of the year, but like to get copious amounts of research in good and early - that's more than half of the enjoyment no?

@Cruff - congrats on your bike, it is one beautiful bike, and glad you are finding it so good.
Will you be planning to do any bikepacking of any sort at all?
That's mental speed, what kind of averages do yo umanage on a road bike?!

@Nobodyofthegoat - I don't ride zwift, but I do RGT - don't think they have one yet though

cruff

Cheers - I should add that it's definitely not a bikepacking bike! It's designed to be fast, so not a multiday bike at all - doesn't have barnacles on the frame for bags, no mudguard mounts (though Cervelo are apparently bringing one out that uses the thru axles...) etc. You could get big saddle, bar and top tube bags I suppose, and there's a mount for a bento box - but you'd struggle to find somewhere to put even a lightweight tent on it

For the route I did I'd usually average about 23mph on the road bike, so it's definitely no slouch! You could probably put a set of deep sections on it, drop the front end and race on it (though it's a bit undergeared so you might spin out at some point)

moonshine

be careful with delaying ordering - my LBS said the manufacturers haven't ramped up production to meet increased demand and supply issues related to COVID are impacting - plus after Dec, Brexit may bring additional Tarriffs on imports.

MY LBS thinks the 2020 supplies / stocks may be sold out bu Jan 2020 and there will be limited restocking after that.

parmos

i got this last week really like it very much had a road bike ride last night on it with no issues keeping up with my fellow roadies

daniel_b

My C2W doesn't come up for renewal until December, so I have no choice unfortunately.

Just mailed 5 shops who are on the approved list with my c2w supplier, one of which stocks my 3 favourite brands for a gravel bike currently, Cannondale, Scott and Orbea that was mentioned up the thread - thanks for that.

@Parmos - that looks like a 105 Topstone, in black?
That's the only thing that puts me off it, as good as it looks in the above (And it does look bloomin nice) picture, is the relatively muted colour options - not something that affects the Orbea!

daniel_b

I've been playing with the online customisation tool, which was not easy to get to work:

teisetrotter

I would always say build the bike up to be what you want. I bought a great frame and whee-set from Parcours. Now I am adding the right-sized seat-post, stem and handlebar from USE. A saddle I know is comfortable from San Marco. Then I'll put the groupset I want with my choice of cranks and cassette on it.

Or I'd go Ribble because you can do all of the above from a UK company.

mrb123

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/gravel-bikes/orbea-terra-m20-d1x-grx-review/

Positive review of the Orbea...