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Lighting for the garage

daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
Greetings all,

have just had the electrics upgraded in my garage, and am looking to get some proper lighting in there - the electrician working on it is going to put in a dedicated fuse box, with a slot for lighting.

It's a fairly big garage, so I'm thinking 2 or 3 lights that can be linked together.

I know ITB amongst others recently put some lighting in, but I can't recall on which thread.

I had a look on Amazon, and this one seemed to be a likely candidate, as both being suitable for garages and linkable: https://amazon.co.uk/Airand-Linkable-Basement-Restaurant-Hostipatal/dp/B07WMMLJFZ



I've also seen that Screwfix sell a large number of offerings, so there may be something mroe suitable through them:
https://screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/led-battens/cat8010010?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-lighting-_-ledbattenfittings

Opinions appreciated :-)
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18
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Posts

  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,608
    Daniel, personally i would get from Screwfix or B&Q same company. That way your guaranteed some comeback as amazon is mainly just a fulfilment warehouse for other suppliers who come and go at alarming regularity. Most LED,s are made in China, Taiwan or similar regions. The technology used is a lot better now compared to a few years ago but they still have a long way to go to be as long-lived as fluorescent lights. We upgraded our factory with highbay LED,s and Battens in other areas and have had the battens fail pretty regularly. Main failures on the battens have been the electronic drivers failing and the highbays have been the fancy electronic switching controllers. The interconnections between linked battens has also been known to fail as well. I would wire each light together rather than use a interconnection kit. Depending on the make up of your garage, ie painted walls or ceiling, glazed windows for natural light be careful with the colour as LED lighting can be very harsh and cast bad shadows. Think about how you want the light spreading. The last garage i did for myself, i had a 5ft twin batten over the bench at one end. 2 4ft singles on each side and one 5ft twin across the middle plus one above the garage door if it was shut. That gave me enough light to do reasonable bodywork and car repairs. It was unpainted with no natural light and not LED.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • lincolndavelincolndave Posts: 9,441
    edited May 2020
    Daniel, I can recommend the lap fittings, I have 2x5 and 3 x4 ft fittings in the garage , the 5 ft fittings being over the work area, I bought the lap battens after a recommendation from a previous post on here
  • redbikejohnredbikejohn Posts: 156
    I'd also recommend 5foot HF (high frequency) fittings over LED's as I've found Led's to be less than reliable. With the rush of companies opting for power saving the cost has come down but the quality is just as cheap - drivers fail regularly.
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 989
    I've had some LED strip lights in my outbuilding for a few years now and they've been superb. No issues with buzzing or them failing.


    I got them from Toolstation:
    https://www.toolstation.com/sensio-connex-cct-led-strip-light/p91303
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,608
    You'll be ok with the LED,s for normal domestic use, sadly not up to 24/7 usage in industrial or commercial premises.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    Thanks all for the replies, excuse the delay.

    Some really useful stuff to be looking into, and yes I think i will look to a bricks and mortar store rather than just off of Amazon.

    Interesting the different viewpoints on the reliability or best choices for the job!

    We are now also thinking about having a 'garden office' put in at the bottom of the garden, and if we go ahead that will also require adequate lighting.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • Really people still install fluorescents? I’m shocked. All you need to do is buy high quality LED battens for your garage. I put in a Thorn lighting unit in my bike room. The modern equivalent of the old popular pack. Works like a dream. If you google search Thorn LED battens you will be able to pick out the sizes you require based on light output.
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,959
    Having my laps batten attached to a smart plug means i can use routines triggered by a phrase to turn on the lights, turbo, beer fridge (like that is ever off). I’m leaving the laptop and Apple TV on all the time, then I have one word to turn everything off when I’m done, next steps is a remote electric garage door linked to my smart home.
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,608
    A lot of the current generation of LED battens that we are using at the minute come with inbuilt light level and movement sensors so won't come on if bright enough or switch off when no activity. These normally come with selectable light level and time switching.
    Aberdeen Lune. We can't really fit the old fluorescent lights as frowned upon and getting harder to get, what I said was they are still more reliable than the current generation LED battens. If I get 2 yrs out of an LED im lucky compared with probably double that of a standard fluorescent batten. Doesn't seem to matter if made in Taiwan, China or Italy they're all PP for longevity. Please note this is in an industrial setting working 365 days of the yr. Not a problem for domestic use.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    itboffin said:

    Having my laps batten attached to a smart plug means i can use routines triggered by a phrase to turn on the lights, turbo, beer fridge (like that is ever off). I’m leaving the laptop and Apple TV on all the time, then I have one word to turn everything off when I’m done, next steps is a remote electric garage door linked to my smart home.

    I had a really good chap (And keen cyclist as it happens) fit our rollerdoor last summer, let me know if you want his details, he did a great job imho.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,959
    Oh I totally missed this please Dan can you pm me
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • skooterskooter Posts: 264
    I have some LED's but put a few extra strips in as more light is never a bad thing.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    itboffin said:

    Oh I totally missed this please Dan can you pm me

    And now i have missed it ITB, will send you an IM now.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    Thought I would resurrect this thread.

    I'm looking into sorting this at the end of the month if I can - going to be putting some reflective solar paint on the roof to bring down the temperature during the summer months, but this will also have the side effect of making it a lot darker inside, so the urgency is now much greater for these to be sorted.

    Liking the look of the LAP lights from SF that have a 3 year guarantee, plus the fact they are IP65 rated - yes they will be in the garage, but it can get a bit damp in there, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that there could be a leak in the roof through one of the gaskets occasionally.

    @itboffin - did you use a specific cable type?
    I saw mentioned on the Screwfix Q&A that h05rn-f 1.0-1.5mm2 cable is recommended, but that slightly bizarrely Screwfix do not sell it!

    Going to have a look for various installation guides, but I'm thinking currently as it's a fairly large space, I'm thinking between 4 and 6 individual lights - not sure yet whether I want a twin light switch so I can switch just one area of the garage on or not.

    I haven't yet ascertained whether the lights can be daisy chained, with the termination point on the final light, or whether a full lighting ring is better.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 989
    I use two 1.2m LED batten lights from toolstation in my "shed". Can't remember what W they are but they were cheap and are seriously bright.

    They should be more than sufficient for a garage, especially if you have 4 or 6 of them.
  • wilberforcewilberforce Posts: 239
    I have two of these https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-twin-4ft-led-batten-white-43w-4400lm/6481v in standard size single garage.
    I have fitted them daisy chained together.
    Massive improvement over the single batten I had previously and would not need any brighter
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    edited 15 March

    I have two of these https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-twin-4ft-led-batten-white-43w-4400lm/6481v in standard size single garage.
    I have fitted them daisy chained together.
    Massive improvement over the single batten I had previously and would not need any brighter

    That's one the 6 lights I am looking at, just need to measure up and see what will fit where.
    The very front of the garage where the roof is highest I am planning to fit two across width ways - then I am thinking of probably 3 further back, but lower down, as I have kind of boarded for some storage above.

    Been looking into how to wire them, and it appears they do not have the facility for an earth wire.
    My current thinking (And I will be checking this out) is that I would like either 2 or 3 switches, so initial thought is to have live, neutral and earth coming from the new shiny fusebox to the switches, then the same wiring to go out of there into the junction box, and then just live and neutral to go out to the first light, and to then daisy chain them from there.

    @wilberforce regarding this part:
    "I saw mentioned on the Screwfix Q&A that h05rn-f 1.0-1.5mm2 cable is recommended, but that slightly bizarrely Screwfix do not sell it!"

    Can I ask what cable you used, and did you simply fit this cable, without earth to daisychain the lights?
    I think I saw they have entrances in both ends, so assuming you took the feed in one end, and then out of the other for the second light?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,486
    daniel_b said:


    My current thinking (And I will be checking this out) is that I would like either 2 or 3 switches

    How big is this shed hat you need so many switches?
    I think 2 way switches might need 4 core+earth cable, 3 way might need more? You need someone like @oxoman to advise.

    If the light bodies are 100% plastic then I don't think you need an earth from the switch to the light.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    edited 15 March
    thistle_ said:

    daniel_b said:


    My current thinking (And I will be checking this out) is that I would like either 2 or 3 switches

    How big is this shed hat you need so many switches?
    I think 2 way switches might need 4 core+earth cable, 3 way might need more? You need someone like @oxoman to advise.

    If the light bodies are 100% plastic then I don't think you need an earth from the switch to the light.
    It's 6m X 5m, and is somewhat divided off by storage etc, so there are 3 defined areas.

    The front two nearest the door will be up high, so will light down near the door, but due to roof storage items, and boarding, not much of this light will bleed through to the middle and rear of the garage.

    However if it was a case of having them all run of just one switch, that wouldn't be an issue.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • thistle_thistle_ Posts: 5,486
    daniel_b said:

    thistle_ said:

    daniel_b said:


    My current thinking (And I will be checking this out) is that I would like either 2 or 3 switches

    How big is this shed hat you need so many switches?
    I think 2 way switches might need 4 core+earth cable, 3 way might need more? You need someone like @oxoman to advise.

    If the light bodies are 100% plastic then I don't think you need an earth from the switch to the light.
    It's 6m X 5m, and is somewhat divided off by storage etc, so there are 3 defined areas.

    The front two nearest the door will be up high, so will light down near the door, but due to roof storage items, and boarding, not much of this light will bleed through to the middle and rear of the garage.

    However if it was a case of having them all run of just one switch, that wouldn't be an issue.
    Sorry, think I misunderstood.
    Sounds a lot simpler than I though, although I can't help with exact details on how to wire them up.
  • wilberforcewilberforce Posts: 239
    I just used 1.0mm twin and earth that I had lying around.
    From what I remember, installing them was pretty simple. You fix two clips to the ceiling, and then the light bodies just push into them.
    The cable connections are also just clip in connections (no screwdriver required).
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482

    I just used 1.0mm twin and earth that I had lying around.
    From what I remember, installing them was pretty simple. You fix two clips to the ceiling, and then the light bodies just push into them.
    The cable connections are also just clip in connections (no screwdriver required).

    But presumably you just left the earth doing nothing inbetween the lights, as there is no earth connection to go to?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    I have found these instructions that seem to apply to the lights in question.

    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • wilberforcewilberforce Posts: 239
    Hi, yes I can’t enlarge them but those instructions look about right and yes, the cable earth was just ignored.
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,608
    Just picked up on this thread again. Spread the lights to suit your needs. I recently did a mates garage with 6 lights 2 spread evenly down each side and 1 at either end as he does car diy stuff. Personally I'd not bother with anti corrosive fittings unless a really damp garage. 1mm twin and earth is more than adequate and you can daisy chain it as you thought. Not a great lover of push in connections however that's what they come with. The fittings should come with a facility to connect an earth even though the fitting doesn't require or need it. I would suggest you use the earth throughout the circuit as whilst not used on the fitting it is your circuit protector should cable damage occur. For 2way switching you need 3 core and earth cable. I'd just wire it from your fuseboard / trip board and go through a single double pole switch for simplicity. Just a warning modern LED fittings if used regularly don't last. By that I mean on all day everyday. They are also very flexible and can be a pain to fix on anything not flat. Have fun, remember safety first and switch of before starting or if not sure get a proper electrician.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    oxoman said:

    Just picked up on this thread again. Spread the lights to suit your needs. I recently did a mates garage with 6 lights 2 spread evenly down each side and 1 at either end as he does car diy stuff. Personally I'd not bother with anti corrosive fittings unless a really damp garage. 1mm twin and earth is more than adequate and you can daisy chain it as you thought. Not a great lover of push in connections however that's what they come with. The fittings should come with a facility to connect an earth even though the fitting doesn't require or need it. I would suggest you use the earth throughout the circuit as whilst not used on the fitting it is your circuit protector should cable damage occur. For 2way switching you need 3 core and earth cable. I'd just wire it from your fuseboard / trip board and go through a single double pole switch for simplicity. Just a warning modern LED fittings if used regularly don't last. By that I mean on all day everyday. They are also very flexible and can be a pain to fix on anything not flat. Have fun, remember safety first and switch of before starting or if not sure get a proper electrician.

    Thankyou for that detailed reply, much appreciated.

    We've had an extension done recently, so have a new fusebox installed in the house, and he ran armoured cable to the garage for me, and installed a new fusebox there as well - the previous owner had just run some cable to a double socket on the wall of the garage!

    I'll definitely make sure I work very safely, and knock out the power in the garage when it comes to the point of connecting into the fusebox.
    I'm assuming it would make sense for that to be the last step - ie I start at the end light, and work backwards with the wiring, and once I come out of the switch, then I would turn the garage power off, before connecting it all up, and switching it back on.
    I also say that as we have a freezer out there, although if it is going to be off for a longer period I could run an extension cable temporarily out from the house I suppose.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 9,482
    edited 17 March
    Minor change of plan, took on your point @oxoman about not needing IP65, and have found their IP20 lights (An entire pound cheaper!) appear to have provision for the wiring of actual 3 core wire into and out of the light, so that should be better all round.

    I'm going to go for 2 high up at the front, 2 at the rear, and one in the middle - that should give a good light spread.

    Would appear the IP65 has a polycarbonate body, to prevent rust, but also negates the need of an earth, where as the IP20 has a steel body.

    https://screwfix.com/p/lap-oxbo-twin-4ft-led-batten-white-43w-4400lm/364cc

    Looks like the daisychaining aspect may be a tad more awkward, as the IP65 lights had one port at either end, where as according to the video for this one, the connectors are plumb in the middle - so assuming you need to feed the cable all the way through from or out to either end, or go in from the back/top of course.
    I think with my set up I'll be looking to go in from either end.

    So 3 core throughout should simplify things, and I think means I can go straight from a switch to the first light, and all the way to the end.

    The only thing I still don't fully understand, is whether I should return the cable from light number 5 back to the fusebox?

    And would I be correct in going for this 1.5mm cable?

    https://screwfix.com/p/time-3183yag-yellow-3-core-1-5mm-flexible-cable-25m-drum/208jy
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 9,608
    No need to do this as it's a lighting circuit; only time you need to run a return cable is if its sockets and running a ring final circuit normally known as a ring main. Good idea starting at the end first. Leave a bit of slack in each fitting just in case of problems.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • wilberforcewilberforce Posts: 239
    Hi, just FYI I double checked the (IP65) lights which i have and they are just 2 core connections for daisy chaining.
    The light bodies are non metallic so I guess earth not valid/required.
  • photonic69photonic69 Posts: 1,211
    Quite often the light fitting or lumiere will only have a short cable of either two core cable (double insulated plastic bodied fitting), or three core if it has a metal body and not double insulated. These short lengths need to be connected to the lighting circuit via a traditional round four terminal junction box for loop in/loop out lighting. The Earth core in the T&E cable is there just as much to protect the cable run as it is to protect the light fitting.

    Whichever light fitting you choose it will probably be an LED arrangement. When these fail, and they do fail you usually Chuck the whole thing away so make sure your wiring allows room for replacement at some point.
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