Lighting for the garage

daniel_b
daniel_b Posts: 11,497
Greetings all,

have just had the electrics upgraded in my garage, and am looking to get some proper lighting in there - the electrician working on it is going to put in a dedicated fuse box, with a slot for lighting.

It's a fairly big garage, so I'm thinking 2 or 3 lights that can be linked together.

I know ITB amongst others recently put some lighting in, but I can't recall on which thread.

I had a look on Amazon, and this one seemed to be a likely candidate, as both being suitable for garages and linkable: https://amazon.co.uk/Airand-Linkable-Basement-Restaurant-Hostipatal/dp/B07WMMLJFZ



I've also seen that Screwfix sell a large number of offerings, so there may be something mroe suitable through them:
https://screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/led-battens/cat8010010?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-lighting-_-ledbattenfittings

Opinions appreciated :-)
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18
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Comments

  • lincolndave
    lincolndave Posts: 9,441
    edited May 2020
    Daniel, I can recommend the lap fittings, I have 2x5 and 3 x4 ft fittings in the garage , the 5 ft fittings being over the work area, I bought the lap battens after a recommendation from a previous post on here
  • redbikejohn
    redbikejohn Posts: 160
    I'd also recommend 5foot HF (high frequency) fittings over LED's as I've found Led's to be less than reliable. With the rush of companies opting for power saving the cost has come down but the quality is just as cheap - drivers fail regularly.
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    I've had some LED strip lights in my outbuilding for a few years now and they've been superb. No issues with buzzing or them failing.


    I got them from Toolstation:
    https://www.toolstation.com/sensio-connex-cct-led-strip-light/p91303
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    Thanks all for the replies, excuse the delay.

    Some really useful stuff to be looking into, and yes I think i will look to a bricks and mortar store rather than just off of Amazon.

    Interesting the different viewpoints on the reliability or best choices for the job!

    We are now also thinking about having a 'garden office' put in at the bottom of the garden, and if we go ahead that will also require adequate lighting.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • Really people still install fluorescents? I’m shocked. All you need to do is buy high quality LED battens for your garage. I put in a Thorn lighting unit in my bike room. The modern equivalent of the old popular pack. Works like a dream. If you google search Thorn LED battens you will be able to pick out the sizes you require based on light output.
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,051
    Having my laps batten attached to a smart plug means i can use routines triggered by a phrase to turn on the lights, turbo, beer fridge (like that is ever off). I’m leaving the laptop and Apple TV on all the time, then I have one word to turn everything off when I’m done, next steps is a remote electric garage door linked to my smart home.
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    itboffin said:

    Having my laps batten attached to a smart plug means i can use routines triggered by a phrase to turn on the lights, turbo, beer fridge (like that is ever off). I’m leaving the laptop and Apple TV on all the time, then I have one word to turn everything off when I’m done, next steps is a remote electric garage door linked to my smart home.

    I had a really good chap (And keen cyclist as it happens) fit our rollerdoor last summer, let me know if you want his details, he did a great job imho.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,051
    Oh I totally missed this please Dan can you pm me
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • skooter
    skooter Posts: 264
    I have some LED's but put a few extra strips in as more light is never a bad thing.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    itboffin said:

    Oh I totally missed this please Dan can you pm me

    And now i have missed it ITB, will send you an IM now.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    Thought I would resurrect this thread.

    I'm looking into sorting this at the end of the month if I can - going to be putting some reflective solar paint on the roof to bring down the temperature during the summer months, but this will also have the side effect of making it a lot darker inside, so the urgency is now much greater for these to be sorted.

    Liking the look of the LAP lights from SF that have a 3 year guarantee, plus the fact they are IP65 rated - yes they will be in the garage, but it can get a bit damp in there, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that there could be a leak in the roof through one of the gaskets occasionally.

    @itboffin - did you use a specific cable type?
    I saw mentioned on the Screwfix Q&A that h05rn-f 1.0-1.5mm2 cable is recommended, but that slightly bizarrely Screwfix do not sell it!

    Going to have a look for various installation guides, but I'm thinking currently as it's a fairly large space, I'm thinking between 4 and 6 individual lights - not sure yet whether I want a twin light switch so I can switch just one area of the garage on or not.

    I haven't yet ascertained whether the lights can be daisy chained, with the termination point on the final light, or whether a full lighting ring is better.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • dannbodge
    dannbodge Posts: 1,152
    I use two 1.2m LED batten lights from toolstation in my "shed". Can't remember what W they are but they were cheap and are seriously bright.

    They should be more than sufficient for a garage, especially if you have 4 or 6 of them.
  • wilberforce
    wilberforce Posts: 293
    I have two of these https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-twin-4ft-led-batten-white-43w-4400lm/6481v in standard size single garage.
    I have fitted them daisy chained together.
    Massive improvement over the single batten I had previously and would not need any brighter
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    edited March 2021

    I have two of these https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-twin-4ft-led-batten-white-43w-4400lm/6481v in standard size single garage.
    I have fitted them daisy chained together.
    Massive improvement over the single batten I had previously and would not need any brighter

    That's one the 6 lights I am looking at, just need to measure up and see what will fit where.
    The very front of the garage where the roof is highest I am planning to fit two across width ways - then I am thinking of probably 3 further back, but lower down, as I have kind of boarded for some storage above.

    Been looking into how to wire them, and it appears they do not have the facility for an earth wire.
    My current thinking (And I will be checking this out) is that I would like either 2 or 3 switches, so initial thought is to have live, neutral and earth coming from the new shiny fusebox to the switches, then the same wiring to go out of there into the junction box, and then just live and neutral to go out to the first light, and to then daisy chain them from there.

    @wilberforce regarding this part:
    "I saw mentioned on the Screwfix Q&A that h05rn-f 1.0-1.5mm2 cable is recommended, but that slightly bizarrely Screwfix do not sell it!"

    Can I ask what cable you used, and did you simply fit this cable, without earth to daisychain the lights?
    I think I saw they have entrances in both ends, so assuming you took the feed in one end, and then out of the other for the second light?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • thistle_
    thistle_ Posts: 7,085
    daniel_b said:


    My current thinking (And I will be checking this out) is that I would like either 2 or 3 switches

    How big is this shed hat you need so many switches?
    I think 2 way switches might need 4 core+earth cable, 3 way might need more? You need someone like @oxoman to advise.

    If the light bodies are 100% plastic then I don't think you need an earth from the switch to the light.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    edited March 2021
    thistle_ said:

    daniel_b said:


    My current thinking (And I will be checking this out) is that I would like either 2 or 3 switches

    How big is this shed hat you need so many switches?
    I think 2 way switches might need 4 core+earth cable, 3 way might need more? You need someone like @oxoman to advise.

    If the light bodies are 100% plastic then I don't think you need an earth from the switch to the light.
    It's 6m X 5m, and is somewhat divided off by storage etc, so there are 3 defined areas.

    The front two nearest the door will be up high, so will light down near the door, but due to roof storage items, and boarding, not much of this light will bleed through to the middle and rear of the garage.

    However if it was a case of having them all run of just one switch, that wouldn't be an issue.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • thistle_
    thistle_ Posts: 7,085
    daniel_b said:

    thistle_ said:

    daniel_b said:


    My current thinking (And I will be checking this out) is that I would like either 2 or 3 switches

    How big is this shed hat you need so many switches?
    I think 2 way switches might need 4 core+earth cable, 3 way might need more? You need someone like @oxoman to advise.

    If the light bodies are 100% plastic then I don't think you need an earth from the switch to the light.
    It's 6m X 5m, and is somewhat divided off by storage etc, so there are 3 defined areas.

    The front two nearest the door will be up high, so will light down near the door, but due to roof storage items, and boarding, not much of this light will bleed through to the middle and rear of the garage.

    However if it was a case of having them all run of just one switch, that wouldn't be an issue.
    Sorry, think I misunderstood.
    Sounds a lot simpler than I though, although I can't help with exact details on how to wire them up.
  • wilberforce
    wilberforce Posts: 293
    I just used 1.0mm twin and earth that I had lying around.
    From what I remember, installing them was pretty simple. You fix two clips to the ceiling, and then the light bodies just push into them.
    The cable connections are also just clip in connections (no screwdriver required).
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497

    I just used 1.0mm twin and earth that I had lying around.
    From what I remember, installing them was pretty simple. You fix two clips to the ceiling, and then the light bodies just push into them.
    The cable connections are also just clip in connections (no screwdriver required).

    But presumably you just left the earth doing nothing inbetween the lights, as there is no earth connection to go to?
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    I have found these instructions that seem to apply to the lights in question.

    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • wilberforce
    wilberforce Posts: 293
    Hi, yes I can’t enlarge them but those instructions look about right and yes, the cable earth was just ignored.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    oxoman said:

    Just picked up on this thread again. Spread the lights to suit your needs. I recently did a mates garage with 6 lights 2 spread evenly down each side and 1 at either end as he does car diy stuff. Personally I'd not bother with anti corrosive fittings unless a really damp garage. 1mm twin and earth is more than adequate and you can daisy chain it as you thought. Not a great lover of push in connections however that's what they come with. The fittings should come with a facility to connect an earth even though the fitting doesn't require or need it. I would suggest you use the earth throughout the circuit as whilst not used on the fitting it is your circuit protector should cable damage occur. For 2way switching you need 3 core and earth cable. I'd just wire it from your fuseboard / trip board and go through a single double pole switch for simplicity. Just a warning modern LED fittings if used regularly don't last. By that I mean on all day everyday. They are also very flexible and can be a pain to fix on anything not flat. Have fun, remember safety first and switch of before starting or if not sure get a proper electrician.

    Thankyou for that detailed reply, much appreciated.

    We've had an extension done recently, so have a new fusebox installed in the house, and he ran armoured cable to the garage for me, and installed a new fusebox there as well - the previous owner had just run some cable to a double socket on the wall of the garage!

    I'll definitely make sure I work very safely, and knock out the power in the garage when it comes to the point of connecting into the fusebox.
    I'm assuming it would make sense for that to be the last step - ie I start at the end light, and work backwards with the wiring, and once I come out of the switch, then I would turn the garage power off, before connecting it all up, and switching it back on.
    I also say that as we have a freezer out there, although if it is going to be off for a longer period I could run an extension cable temporarily out from the house I suppose.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497
    edited March 2021
    Minor change of plan, took on your point @oxoman about not needing IP65, and have found their IP20 lights (An entire pound cheaper!) appear to have provision for the wiring of actual 3 core wire into and out of the light, so that should be better all round.

    I'm going to go for 2 high up at the front, 2 at the rear, and one in the middle - that should give a good light spread.

    Would appear the IP65 has a polycarbonate body, to prevent rust, but also negates the need of an earth, where as the IP20 has a steel body.

    https://screwfix.com/p/lap-oxbo-twin-4ft-led-batten-white-43w-4400lm/364cc

    Looks like the daisychaining aspect may be a tad more awkward, as the IP65 lights had one port at either end, where as according to the video for this one, the connectors are plumb in the middle - so assuming you need to feed the cable all the way through from or out to either end, or go in from the back/top of course.
    I think with my set up I'll be looking to go in from either end.

    So 3 core throughout should simplify things, and I think means I can go straight from a switch to the first light, and all the way to the end.

    The only thing I still don't fully understand, is whether I should return the cable from light number 5 back to the fusebox?

    And would I be correct in going for this 1.5mm cable?

    https://screwfix.com/p/time-3183yag-yellow-3-core-1-5mm-flexible-cable-25m-drum/208jy
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • wilberforce
    wilberforce Posts: 293
    Hi, just FYI I double checked the (IP65) lights which i have and they are just 2 core connections for daisy chaining.
    The light bodies are non metallic so I guess earth not valid/required.
  • photonic69
    photonic69 Posts: 2,348
    Quite often the light fitting or lumiere will only have a short cable of either two core cable (double insulated plastic bodied fitting), or three core if it has a metal body and not double insulated. These short lengths need to be connected to the lighting circuit via a traditional round four terminal junction box for loop in/loop out lighting. The Earth core in the T&E cable is there just as much to protect the cable run as it is to protect the light fitting.

    Whichever light fitting you choose it will probably be an LED arrangement. When these fail, and they do fail you usually Chuck the whole thing away so make sure your wiring allows room for replacement at some point.


    Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.

  • photonic69
    photonic69 Posts: 2,348
    I wired a couple of these in our loft recently as per my post above. They are super bright and super light as in they weigh nothing. One failed after 20 hours use and Toolstation sent out a replacement the same day. And yes, they have very short tails to connect to the circuit

    https://www.toolstation.com/v-tac-led-weatherproof-fitting-ip65-6500k/p96140


    Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.

  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,497

    I wired a couple of these in our loft recently as per my post above. They are super bright and super light as in they weigh nothing. One failed after 20 hours use and Toolstation sent out a replacement the same day. And yes, they have very short tails to connect to the circuit

    https://www.toolstation.com/v-tac-led-weatherproof-fitting-ip65-6500k/p96140

    Thanks for that - watching the fitting video, the LAP Screwfix lights have no cables attached at all, merely connecting ports in the centre of the light, less joins has got to be a good thing.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • johngti
    johngti Posts: 2,508
    oxoman said:

    No need to do this as it's a lighting circuit; only time you need to run a return cable is if its sockets and running a ring final circuit normally known as a ring main. Good idea starting at the end first. Leave a bit of slack in each fitting just in case of problems.

    Since you seem to know exactly what you're doing, can I offer a hypothetical situation that may occur in a garden not far from where my house is?

    A feed already exists from the main house fuse board, into an isolation switch and protected by (if I remember correctly) a 65 amp fuse. This goes into the garden and into a junction box which feeds a garage consumer unit running a strip light and a few sockets in the shed near the house. Sockets are on a ring with a return to the consumer unit. That's been there for years and years.

    Say I want to run more power up to the new summerhouse at the top of the garden. Would a set up as in the picture attached work do you think? So add a run up the garden from the junction box, put a new garage consumer unit into the summerhouse and stick a light and a couple of sockets off it? Would the sockets need to be a ring or a spur?

    Maybe the picture makes more sense...


  • photonic69
    photonic69 Posts: 2,348
    How do you make the image above bigger so I can see your writing? Is there anyway of doing it on this or other images on this forum in general?


    Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.

  • johngti
    johngti Posts: 2,508

    How do you make the image above bigger so I can see your writing? Is there anyway of doing it on this or other images on this forum in general?

    I could dm the original...? Otherwise pinch/zoom but then it gets blurry. Or this might be better... https://photos.app.goo.gl/kXbUrobKvN62oz18A