Strava Premium segments

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

If their routebuilder is a key selling point, isn't putting this behind a paywall in a worldwide near lockdown kind of stupid? How many people need a route builder for their local roads?

They use the data of what people actually ride (which you give them for free), to determine where to point the route builder (which you now pay for).

I think they might be planning a bit more long term.

I don't understand why they don't put adverts on it, and you have to pay to get rid of them and get a few extra features. I've always liked the fact that it doesn't have adverts, but never understood it.

Long term Garmin connect will allow Strava users to synch their data, before Garmin discontinue back-compatibility.

You mean to send data from Strava to Garmin Connect? Or from Garmin to Strava?

rick_chasey

I suspect we will see a lot more of this stuff for tech/app firms.

The seemingly endless taps of money that tech firms could burn through from PE firms have presumably been turned off, given what's going on and tech firms will now be expected to be profitable.

AFAIK, Strava isn't yet.

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

If their routebuilder is a key selling point, isn't putting this behind a paywall in a worldwide near lockdown kind of stupid? How many people need a route builder for their local roads?

They use the data of what people actually ride (which you give them for free), to determine where to point the route builder (which you now pay for).

I think they might be planning a bit more long term.

I don't understand why they don't put adverts on it, and you have to pay to get rid of them and get a few extra features. I've always liked the fact that it doesn't have adverts, but never understood it.

Long term Garmin connect will allow Strava users to synch their data, before Garmin discontinue back-compatibility.

You mean to send data from Strava to Garmin Connect? Or from Garmin to Strava?

Too subtle?

surrey_commuter

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

If their routebuilder is a key selling point, isn't putting this behind a paywall in a worldwide near lockdown kind of stupid? How many people need a route builder for their local roads?

They use the data of what people actually ride (which you give them for free), to determine where to point the route builder (which you now pay for).

I think they might be planning a bit more long term.

I don't understand why they don't put adverts on it, and you have to pay to get rid of them and get a few extra features. I've always liked the fact that it doesn't have adverts, but never understood it.

Very difficult to make money with online ads which is why everybody is trying to switch to a subscription model. This is the classic Freemium model, give it all away for free to build up a massive audience then start adding features that people have to pay for

George_Scott

kingstongraham said:

I think you won't be able to see a list of your own times on a segment either, without paying.

That is correct.

You will be able to see when you achieve a PR (or top ten/KOM/QOM) but won't be able to compare your previous times as a free user.

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

If their routebuilder is a key selling point, isn't putting this behind a paywall in a worldwide near lockdown kind of stupid? How many people need a route builder for their local roads?

They use the data of what people actually ride (which you give them for free), to determine where to point the route builder (which you now pay for).

I think they might be planning a bit more long term.

I don't understand why they don't put adverts on it, and you have to pay to get rid of them and get a few extra features. I've always liked the fact that it doesn't have adverts, but never understood it.

Long term Garmin connect will allow Strava users to synch their data, before Garmin discontinue back-compatibility.

You mean to send data from Strava to Garmin Connect? Or from Garmin to Strava?

Too subtle?

Too early. Only on my second cup of tea.

joe2019

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

If their routebuilder is a key selling point, isn't putting this behind a paywall in a worldwide near lockdown kind of stupid? How many people need a route builder for their local roads?

They use the data of what people actually ride (which you give them for free), to determine where to point the route builder (which you now pay for).

I think they might be planning a bit more long term.

I don't understand why they don't put adverts on it, and you have to pay to get rid of them and get a few extra features. I've always liked the fact that it doesn't have adverts, but never understood it.

Very difficult to make money with online ads which is why everybody is trying to switch to a subscription model. This is the classic Freemium model, give it all away for free to build up a massive audience then start adding features that people have to pay for

Except they are not adding features they are taking them away from the fee model

I haven't used Strava for 3 years, and I haven't missed it at all.

I actually managed to 'win' the Rapha Rising climbing challenge in 2012 and 2013, so I was a fairly addicted user back in the day.

morstar

George_Scott said:

kingstongraham said:

I think you won't be able to see a list of your own times on a segment either, without paying.

but won't be able to compare your previous times as a free user.

Unless the update is still going on, I have my segment history still there.

If they take it away, back to ridewithgps. I have better results in there anyway as I was younger and fitter

Pross

DeVlaeminck said:

Is there another easy to use route builder anyone could recommend ?

The Strava one was pretty good - simple and their heat map data helped if you were trying to work out if a track/bridleway was rideable or not. It was also easy to sync the route from Strava to a Wahoo Bolt/Element.

I tend to use Map My Ride / Run or Ride With GPS. I think both can be used to create a GPX though I've never done that, I just use it to get my distances on new routes.

kingstongraham

rick_chasey said:

I suspect we will see a lot more of this stuff for tech/app firms.

The seemingly endless taps of money that tech firms could burn through from PE firms have presumably been turned off, given what's going on and tech firms will now be expected to be profitable.

AFAIK, Strava isn't yet.

Uber managed to lose $8bn last year, I wonder if that will be higher or lower this year?

I think we are going to see what people are willing to pay the going rate for.

ibr17xvii

George_Scott said:

kingstongraham said:

I think you won't be able to see a list of your own times on a segment either, without paying.

That is correct.

You will be able to see when you achieve a PR (or top ten/KOM/QOM) but won't be able to compare your previous times as a free user.

I guess you if you have the Live Segments function on your Wahoo / Garmin that won't work unless you pay either?

Pity as I quite liked that screen pop up telling me if I was ahead or behind of my PR so I knew whether I should flog myself or just give up.

I won't be paying £50 a year for it though.

Ben6899

I know how well I'm going without needing to look at times. We all do, if we're not so reliant on things like Strava.

Route planning... I always used Strava's offering - and like it - but Komoot is now superior.

hopster

It's a company that needs to make some money to survive! It costs money to maintain the infrastructure and build new features. If you enjoy the features then pay for it. It doesn't cost much when you compare it to carbon wheels, carbon sole shoes and tyres at £50plus a pop.

I have never paid for Strava and no I don't use it either but if they need to charge subscribers to survive, what is a very small amount compared to all the other toys you buy to go riding, then why feel outraged?

Like other platforms that are transitioning to paid subscriptions to keep the lights on, it means that the subscribers that fit the feature set will stay, in fact they are probably paying already and the freeloaders will go, which suits them as the hosting cost could be reduced too.

KOM/QOM chasers, you are so boring! 🤣

Pay up you stingy gits! 😉

slowmart

Pross said:

DeVlaeminck said:

Is there another easy to use route builder anyone could recommend ?

The Strava one was pretty good - simple and their heat map data helped if you were trying to work out if a track/bridleway was rideable or not. It was also easy to sync the route from Strava to a Wahoo Bolt/Element.

I tend to use Map My Ride / Run or Ride With GPS. I think both can be used to create a GPX though I've never done that, I just use it to get my distances on new routes.

GPX or TCX, which is comparable with most devices and the site makes the file really easy to export.

joe2019

Out of interest, I've just uploaded a ride and I can still see the full leaderboard?

Pross

Ben6899 said:

I know how well I'm going without needing to look at times. We all do, if we're not so reliant on things like Strava.

Route planning... I always used Strava's offering - and like it - but Komoot is now superior.

I like to compare my (run) times to where I was at the same time last year or in a marathon training programme and also look at the relative HR data to work out if I'm putting in more effort for the same pace. No doubt I can do that in Garmin but I'm used to Strava. The club leaderboards also give a little bit of motivation for weekly bragging rights, especially at the moment when there's no racing.

I'll have to see what they are looking to charge to decide if it's worthwhile. The last time I looked with the three packages on offer I felt it was over-priced to get all the worthwhile features.

First.Aspect

hopster said:

It's a company that needs to make some money to survive! It costs money to maintain the infrastructure and build new features. If you enjoy the features then pay for it. It doesn't cost much when you compare it to carbon wheels, carbon sole shoes and tyres at £50plus a pop.

I have never paid for Strava and no I don't use it either but if they need to charge subscribers to survive, what is a very small amount compared to all the other toys you buy to go riding, then why feel outraged?

Like other platforms that are transitioning to paid subscriptions to keep the lights on, it means that the subscribers that fit the feature set will stay, in fact they are probably paying already and the freeloaders will go, which suits them as the hosting cost could be reduced too.

KOM/QOM chasers, you are so boring! 🤣

Pay up you stingy gits! 😉

Strava's freemium idea is based solely on FOMO.

You have to wonder though if it will survive if there are free offerings elsewhere. Hence why subscription news or subscription social media struggle. Ask people to pay, and they migrate to something new and shiny.

£50 a year is not a lot of money, but I don't walk into a shop (hypothetically) and think "Oh look, I don't need X, but its only £50 so I'll buy it". Unfortunately for most people £50 it more than Strava's added extras are worth.

And if they can't sell ad space with 55 million users, mad keen on wasting money on equipment for multiple sports, what on earth are they doing wrong?

super_davo

I was totally happy paying £19 a year for a summit pack. Extra functionality wasn't of huge value but get the need for Strava to make money so was more than happy to contribute.

But a 250% price hike for no real improvement in functionality... and an almost certain decline in user numbers and the social side (which was always Strava's real USP).

Don't need to renew till October but will watch this space with interest to see if I do.

Ben6899

Pross said:

Ben6899 said:

I know how well I'm going without needing to look at times. We all do, if we're not so reliant on things like Strava.

Route planning... I always used Strava's offering - and like it - but Komoot is now superior.

I like to compare my (run) times to where I was at the same time last year or in a marathon training programme and also look at the relative HR data to work out if I'm putting in more effort for the same pace. No doubt I can do that in Garmin but I'm used to Strava. The club leaderboards also give a little bit of motivation for weekly bragging rights, especially at the moment when there's no racing.

I'll have to see what they are looking to charge to decide if it's worthwhile. The last time I looked with the three packages on offer I felt it was over-priced to get all the worthwhile features.

Fair comment. Garmin does work quite well - and you can set up leaderboards by adding "friends".

morstar

hopster said:

It's a company that needs to make some money to survive! It costs money to maintain the infrastructure and build new features. If you enjoy the features then pay for it. It doesn't cost much when you compare it to carbon wheels, carbon sole shoes and tyres at £50plus a pop.

I have never paid for Strava and no I don't use it either but if they need to charge subscribers to survive, what is a very small amount compared to all the other toys you buy to go riding, then why feel outraged?

Like other platforms that are transitioning to paid subscriptions to keep the lights on, it means that the subscribers that fit the feature set will stay, in fact they are probably paying already and the freeloaders will go, which suits them as the hosting cost could be reduced too.

KOM/QOM chasers, you are so boring! 🤣

Pay up you stingy gits! 😉

I agree it’s not a lot of money but that doesn’t automatically make it good value.
I’d happily pay a bit, say £10-£15 per year for the features I do use. I absolutely do not get £50 a years use out of it. If I did, I’d pay it. I’ve paid less for other apps I use more.

ugo.santalucia

Done, took the 60 day free trial and then 48 quid for one year. I use Strava a lot, so it makes sense.
The power curve is nice and so is the ability to look at segments times by age group... predictably, my top 10% have become top 3% and the top 3% have become top 1%...

ddraver

DeVlaeminck said:

Is there another easy to use route builder anyone could recommend ?

The Strava one was pretty good - simple and their heat map data helped if you were trying to work out if a track/bridleway was rideable or not. It was also easy to sync the route from Strava to a Wahoo Bolt/Element.

Free - Ride with GPS

Also Subscription - Komoot (which appears to be what all the Ultra-racers use to plan their routes but, obvs, costs about the same as Strava does now...)

Ben6899

Genuine question, what am I missing by not paying anything for my Komoot usage?

I create routes, export as GPX and install on my Garmin. Which has open source maps.

No cost.

ddraver

Ive little personal experience with it...

Last time I used it I wanted a way to get from Chamonix to Sallanches and it seemed to route me over Mt.Blanc for some reason unless I paid for the bit that forces it to use roads only, Didn't hurry back...

Ok not totally true but it took me a col with only footpaths and marmots about

First.Aspect

So, the Strava CEO has come out and said something along the lines of "we were too small to be able to put resources into the advertising model". He's basically arguing that they were putting so much effort into being great that they couldn't develop the app and website for anything else.

Is this credible? Or does is smack of a poor excuse for a catastrophic strategic blunder?

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

So, the Strava CEO has come out and said something along the lines of "we were too small to be able to put resources into the advertising model". He's basically arguing that they were putting so much effort into being great that they couldn't develop the app and website for anything else.

Is this credible? Or does is smack of a poor excuse for a catastrophic strategic blunder?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_Viable_Product

If you've ever dealt with tech bros, silicon valley is just one of the best programmes ever.

ddraver

Feels like they believed their own hype for too long in my inexpert opinion. Too many fawning articles in fancy magazines about how they 'revolutionised' cycling, when actually all they did was add a mildly interesting garnish...

However, Segments and Leaderboards were Strava's original USP which makes this feel particularly weird, even to someone who rarely looks at that stuff. It would be a bit like Facebook suddenly charging to make profiles and add friends.

(Not the best week for Phil Gaimon mind...)

morstar

I think the whole costing / revenue model is wrong.
You get the core product for free and then the charged product only adds refinement at a quite expensive cost.
Subscribing self selects itself to serious users.
I’m guessing at numbers but surely it can only be c10% of users subscribe.
Why not significantly reduce the cost and charge a lot more users for the core product. Add premium features on top for more money.
1 month free trial or ad supported versions already mentioned.
I’d happily pay a little bit.
Zwift is 3x the cost but better value imho. Zwift has a massive amount more features and hardware requirements than what is fundamentally a nicely designed data log.

kingstongraham

It maybe has just dawned on them that our data on where we ride isn't actually all that valuable in itself.

dabber

I became a paid subscriber probably about a year afterI first started using it and I carried on paying for several years. This was really becaus it seemed a reasonable thing to do to support them.
However, I found their inability/unwillingness to resolve basic problems, faults and requests annoying. Things dragged on and you could see people getting fobbed off by them.
Bottom line, I cancelled my paid subscription and have no intention of starting to pay again.