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Huawei - Yeeha or Boohoo or to who do you kowtow to? Bompy™

pinnopinno Posts: 38,841
edited 24 February in The cake stop
Most of this stuff is over my head so can someone do '5G and Huawei implications for Dummies' please?
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  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,491
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,559
    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 7,851
    Personally I can't see the point of 5G when current 4G coverage is censored . Get one sorted before rolling out something else half hearted. 4G when you have decent coverage is brilliant why would we want faster when the brain can only digest the information at a slower speeds than received. I personally feel we should manage with less reliance on mobiles and more on ourselves. Tablets, mobiles, PC,s etc harvest way to much information on individuals as it is.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 48,146 Lives Here

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,559

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    So let’s find out early what the cost of p1ssing them off is, after all they are not suggesting a trade deal to do us favour
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 48,146 Lives Here

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    So let’s find out early what the cost of p1ssing them off is, after all they are not suggesting a trade deal to do us favour
    Domestically?

    If Stevo is representative of your average Brexiter thinking, and I suspect the ven diagram there has a fair bit of overlap, a 'deal' with the US is fairly critical.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 40,829
    edited 29 January

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    Beat me to it. On this forum he will either be compromising national security or doffing his cap to the US. Or both.
    Whippet
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 40,829

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    So let’s find out early what the cost of p1ssing them off is, after all they are not suggesting a trade deal to do us favour
    Domestically?

    If Stevo is representative of your average Brexiter thinking, and I suspect the ven diagram there has a fair bit of overlap, a 'deal' with the US is fairly critical.
    Stop trying to provoke...of course everyone on here knows a trade arrangement with the nice fluffy EU can only be good, whereas trade arrangements with the nasty US can only be bad. (Where's that rolleyes emoticon when you need it?)

    Pretty sure that once this is past history the US will be back to a trade deal. Trump will probably have forgotten about it by next month.
    Whippet
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  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,481
    I'm rather assuming that our spooks have had a good look at the kit and decided that even if it is sending messages back home - it's nothing to worry about - and actually, it could be of benefit - if they can insert some mis-information if they so desire.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 48,146 Lives Here
    edited 29 January
    In the context of Trump torpedoing the TTIP and engaging in trade wars with China, you can see why people don't trust the US on this.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,129
    Stevo_666 said:

    of course everyone on here knows a trade arrangement with the nice fluffy EU can only be good

    I don't think people are saying that. The whole point is that we didn't ever have a trade deal with the EU any more than Birmingham has a trade deal with Manchester.

    No remainer has ever had a trade deal with the EU as their top objective: for many of us, one of the main reasons not to leave is that - whether the EU is cuddly, evil or anything else by nature - circumstances dictate that the EU cannot afford to give any favours to us, so the deal on leaving will inevitably be worse.

    As for a US deal, Huawei probably is less relevant than it seems at the moment - much more relevant is that we will need to go begging to the US for a deal at precisely the time when the rational, mutual self-interest that normally drives policy has managed to lose the rational and mutual bit.
  • pinno said:

    Most of this stuff is over my head so can someone do '5G and Huawei implications for Dummies' please?

    It simply comes down to 'do you trust the Chinese regime?'.

    Imagine if things got slightly rocky in the relationship between the UK & China, eg say over Hong Kong, I'm sure the Chinese would have the security backdoors to disable the Huawei built 5G equipment and thus almost immediately create huge problems in the UK.

    Don't fall for the hype that we need warships and boots on the ground, if there is a future major war it will be fought digitally.
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  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 9,896

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    So let’s find out early what the cost of p1ssing them off is, after all they are not suggesting a trade deal to do us favour
    It was all very similar with the founding of AIIB. Lots of pressure from the US, but in the end it was ignored.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 48,146 Lives Here
    I would point out that Iain Duncan Smith is against Huwawei so, by the logic that he's almost always wrong about things....
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,491
    I really would encourage people to read that NCSC blog post. It's a bit dry but covers a lot of the issues. An important point: they came to the conclusion that there were in fact no 'trusted vendors' and that therefore the system should be designed with this in mind. In other words, it's not just an issue with Huawei.

    All the same, it would have been nice to see a bit more of this debate in public. I don't doubt that some of those arguing against it are not fully informed, but Raab's statement was not terribly reassuring.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,559

    I would point out that Iain Duncan Smith is against Huwawei so, by the logic that he's almost always wrong about things....

    But Raab is in favour

    Priti Patel was massively against and now is moderately for

    very confusing situation
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 10,559
    Stevo_666 said:

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    So let’s find out early what the cost of p1ssing them off is, after all they are not suggesting a trade deal to do us favour
    Domestically?

    If Stevo is representative of your average Brexiter thinking, and I suspect the ven diagram there has a fair bit of overlap, a 'deal' with the US is fairly critical.
    Stop trying to provoke...of course everyone on here knows a trade arrangement with the nice fluffy EU can only be good, whereas trade arrangements with the nasty US can only be bad. (Where's that rolleyes emoticon when you need it?)

    Pretty sure that once this is past history the US will be back to a trade deal. Trump will probably have forgotten about it by next month.
    and if he throws his toys out of the pram we have found out early and not got years down the track before he makes one demand too many and then we refuse
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,129
    This thread should be renamed "Huawei - Yeeha or Boohoo or to who do you kowtow?"
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,491
    Stevo_666 said:

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    So let’s find out early what the cost of p1ssing them off is, after all they are not suggesting a trade deal to do us favour
    Domestically?

    If Stevo is representative of your average Brexiter thinking, and I suspect the ven diagram there has a fair bit of overlap, a 'deal' with the US is fairly critical.
    Stop trying to provoke...
    Oh purrlease.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 40,829
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    So let’s find out early what the cost of p1ssing them off is, after all they are not suggesting a trade deal to do us favour
    Domestically?

    If Stevo is representative of your average Brexiter thinking, and I suspect the ven diagram there has a fair bit of overlap, a 'deal' with the US is fairly critical.
    Stop trying to provoke...
    Oh purrlease.
    Two wrongs don't make a right...
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  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 40,829
    rjsterry said:

    I really would encourage people to read that NCSC blog post. It's a bit dry but covers a lot of the issues. An important point: they came to the conclusion that there were in fact no 'trusted vendors' and that therefore the system should be designed with this in mind. In other words, it's not just an issue with Huawei.

    Good point.
    Whippet
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    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 14,725
    5G?
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  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 10,237
    oxoman said:

    Personally I can't see the point of 5G when current 4G coverage is censored . Get one sorted before rolling out something else half hearted. 4G when you have decent coverage is brilliant why would we want faster when the brain can only digest the information at a slower speeds than received. I personally feel we should manage with less reliance on mobiles and more on ourselves. Tablets, mobiles, PC,s etc harvest way to much information on individuals as it is.

    You aren't supposed to be directly digesting the information with your brain. I plan to use a device that provides an interface between me and the raw data.
    and then the next thing you know
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,604

    If we trust our spooks then we are buying the best gear at the best price. Like you I do not have anywhere near the technical knowledge to make an informed opinion.

    Surely the real issue that the US is using the prospect of a trade deal to get us on their side in their various fights. It feels like a slippery slope and that we should put our foot down early and see where it leaves us.

    Can't win in this scenario. Either you're kowtowing to the States or you're p!ssing them off.
    So let’s find out early what the cost of p1ssing them off is, after all they are not suggesting a trade deal to do us favour
    Feels like a good play to show that we aren't going to bend over and let them have their way with us whenever they want just to try to get some crumbs from their table.
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,604
    oxoman said:

    Personally I can't see the point of 5G when current 4G coverage is censored . Get one sorted before rolling out something else half hearted. 4G when you have decent coverage is brilliant why would we want faster when the brain can only digest the information at a slower speeds than received. I personally feel we should manage with less reliance on mobiles and more on ourselves. Tablets, mobiles, PC,s etc harvest way to much information on individuals as it is.

    My understanding is that it's not just a bit of an upgrade on speed but basically enables the level of digital connectivity that will be required for issues such as automation of cars.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 11,723
    Pross said:

    oxoman said:

    Personally I can't see the point of 5G when current 4G coverage is censored . Get one sorted before rolling out something else half hearted. 4G when you have decent coverage is brilliant why would we want faster when the brain can only digest the information at a slower speeds than received. I personally feel we should manage with less reliance on mobiles and more on ourselves. Tablets, mobiles, PC,s etc harvest way to much information on individuals as it is.

    My understanding is that it's not just a bit of an upgrade on speed but basically enables the level of digital connectivity that will be required for issues such as automation of cars.
    That’s a bit of a worry when it can be a struggle to get 3G in some areas.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
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  • awaveyawavey Posts: 2,368
    rjsterry said:

    I really would encourage people to read that NCSC blog post. It's a bit dry but covers a lot of the issues. An important point: they came to the conclusion that there were in fact no 'trusted vendors' and that therefore the system should be designed with this in mind. In other words, it's not just an issue with Huawei.

    All the same, it would have been nice to see a bit more of this debate in public. I don't doubt that some of those arguing against it are not fully informed, but Raab's statement was not terribly reassuring.

    absolutely Cisco (Americas favoured supplier) is forever being patched for security vulnerabilities, except for the ones the NSA/CIA like to use of course, but that never gets the same traction in the media or in parliament.

    fwiw I think the NCSC guy knows alot about what hes talking about thereand has clearly had a big input into the decision, whilst the likes of Duncan Smith or the self claimed tech experts that the media use, I doubt could even explain how a fixed telephony network works, let alone a mobile 5G setup
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 48,146 Lives Here
    IDS is thick as sh!t.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 48,146 Lives Here
    edited 30 January
    It's quite a nice example of the new status of the UK.

    "From which superpower will the UK use its technology".
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 17,491

    It's quite a nice example of the new status of the UK.

    "From which superpower will the UK use its technology".

    This is incorrect. The US aren't offering an alternative manufacturer, and the choice of manufacturers is no different from that if we weren't leaving the EU.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
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