Way OT: Anti-semitism

Longshot

Seeing as last night's debate brought up more accusations of anti-semitism last night it's prompted me to ask a question to which I honestly don't know the answer.

Why is anti-semitism on the increase again? I honestly can't see a reason for the vitriol towards Jewish members of the UK society. Is it misguided anger over Palestine? Some historical context? Religion? Plain old bigotry?

I honestly don't get it. Anyone understand the cause for this?

thegreatdivide

I don't think it's on the increase. It's the media.

However, anyone who thought that Corbyn’s pronunciation of that dead paedophile’s surname was anti-Semitic needs to f@ck off the planet immediately. That includes has-been ‘comedian’ David Baddiel.

haydenm

I don't really understand antisemitism, it's just never really registered with me. I'm sure my near total ignorance of Jewish issues could open me up to some subconscious bias but I'm slightly ashamed to say it's not something I know anything about, or anything I have any ill feelings towards.

fenix

I think hatred itself is on the rise. Look at the Brexit campaign. Demonizing the immigrants and blaming them for all the ills of the world.

And its so easy to whip up a media frenzy with all the BS thats spouted on FB and Twitter.

People are unhappy. They could look to the government, or the government could convince them it's the fault of the immigrants taking their jobs and houses etc etc etc..

step83

haydenm said:

I don't really understand antisemitism, it's just never really registered with me. I'm sure my near total ignorance of Jewish issues could open me up to some subconscious bias but I'm slightly ashamed to say it's not something I know anything about, or anything I have any ill feelings towards.

I'm with you on that, I don't know much about the religion myself but I hold no hostilities or discriminate against anyone regardless of their beliefs. Bar flat earthers....

Longshot

Glad it's not just me then. I work in an industry heavily populated by Jewish people so I wondered if that had caused my confusion.

pinno

Corbyn is pro-Palestine it seems. Does that translate to anti Israel?

pinno

Some stuff:

Jeremy Corbyn's backbench record
Corbyn is a patron of the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign[65] and had campaigned extensively for Palestinian rights during his 32 years as a backbencher.[66] In August 2015, as Jeremy Corbyn emerged as a front-runner in the Labour Party leadership election, The Jewish Chronicle devoted its front page to seven questions regarding Corbyn's associations with those it described as "Holocaust deniers, terrorists and some outright antisemites", although Corbyn said he met with them in his search for peace in the Middle East.[67] These included his relationship with Islamist organisations Hezbollah and Hamas, organisations that Corbyn called "friends" (although he has stated he disagrees with their views);[68] and his failure to object to what the Chronicle described as antisemitic banners and posters that "dominate" the London Quds Day rallies supported by the organisation, Stop the War Coalition, of which Corbyn was national chair from 2011 to 2015.

lesfirth

pinno said:

Corbyn is pro-Palestine it seems. Does that translate to anti Israel?

The problem is that there is no middle ground. It is a case of "you are either with us or against us" and "if you attack one of us ,you attack all of us".

chris_bass

I'm not sure if it is anti-semitism that is on the rise or hate generally or that people are just more happy to voice hateful opinions these days. some people always thought it but now they say it too. if people don't like it label them lefties or snowflakes and that seems to make it ok in their minds.

haydenm

This might sound bad (I really don't mean it like that) but I do sort of understand where things like racism and Islamophobia come from in terms of ignorance or feeling threatened, but with antisemitism I can't see or understand the root cause of it aside from being pro-Palestine. There are certainly people who are antisemitic rather than just pro-Palestine and I struggle to see how you would come to that conclusion.

Could it be that in other areas of Europe at different times 'local' people have felt threatened by Jewish people as some people do in areas of the UK by immigration?

Ben6899

It's not on the rise. It's a media shitstorm. Prominent non-Labour voters are using it to damage Labour's political campaign.

Frederick Forsyth - FFS - said he couldn't possibly vote Labour in the light of the latest antisemitism claims... Frederick Forsyth - FFS - as dyed in the wool Tory as you'll find.

tangled_metal

thegreatdivide said:

I don't think it's on the increase. It's the media.

However, anyone who thought that Corbyn’s pronunciation of that dead paedophile’s surname was anti-Semitic needs to f@ck off the planet immediately. That includes has-been ‘comedian’ David Baddiel.

All articles about that I saw described him as a novelist or writer. That's his current occupation and he's doing very well indeed, like Walliams.

Personally I think you're wrong about anti- semitism. I think many Jewish people are over sensitive about antisemitism for a reason. It's a directed form of racism with a long history of atrocities from centuries before the holocaust. I think it's a fair point to raise the mispronunciation of Ep-stein. It's the western anglicised form of the name widely used in America, Britain and non-Germanic parts of the west. Why change it from the most commonly used pronunciation? Whether that's antisemitism I have my doubts but it's certainly a wrong pronunciation for the name of an American Jewish figure like this.

There is a long tradition of using different words or pronunciation of names by the political left wing. Zionist instead of Jew is a classic. Corbyn is from that political tradition even if he has a long history of anti racism. His form of anti racism campaigning has never been against antisemitism afaik. It's anti apartheid and other domestic anti racism campaigns, typically for BAME but not defending the Jewish community against attacks.

Brexit and hard left rise in the labour party simply combine. There is more media reporting but AIUI the underlying figures show antisemitism is on the increase since 2016 and at least part of it is related to some of the supporters of Corbyn.

Of course my views aren't too everyone's taste. But look at what's happening in labour among its traditionally strong Jewish community/ members. They're leaving, Jewish organisations or branches within labour organisation are withdrawing support. Says a lot how the Jewish community feel about these matters imho.

chris_bass

There are so many conspiracy theories about Jews and some of them seem to be so widespread if you try and say they aren't true you get laughed at!

I don't believe any of the following as a disclaimer as they are all nonsense, but how often have you heard people say "of course "they" control the banks" or "they" funded both side of the war and any time anyone mentions the rothschilds you know what they think!

or maybe i spend to long on the internet

carbonclem

When I was a kid Jewish 'jokes' were fairly common, but they had faded away to non existance. Oddly, I've heard a couple of references to those stereotypes in the last year or so, I'd suggest thats just the kind of people they were (right leaning btw) rather than a resurgence of AS.
I see Maureen Lipman is coming out against Corbyn ahead of the election. Like she did against Milliband previously. Go figure?