Increasing FTP

There are plenty of threads across the internet about building FTP but not a lot from my searches of real world experiences getting there.

So in my best year (2016) to date my FTP was 268W, after a couple of terrible years of exercise due to work, illness and lack of enthusiasm it dropped below 240W, i've spent as much time as i can over the last two months on the turbo pushing ramp tests and i'm back to 266W, today on a 10 min test I recorded 280W, I was in no way spent, if i'd had the time i'm sure i could have ridden for an hour at 280W.

I'm going to try and a) lose weight and b) get that FTP to 300W

15% in a quarter
Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
«1

Posts

  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 9,810
    Calculated FTP is 95% of actual output in my experience.
    280W recorded = FTP 266W.
    I target a 10% gain when recording. I fail, but make progress.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • nitrousoxidenitrousoxide Posts: 3,821
    Been a yo-yo year for me, using 95% of my best 20mins to get an FTP figure, due to illness (various lurgies) and injury (knee tendon).

    Now roughly back where I was 12 months ago at 275, reached a peak of 298 by very early March, low of 240 around end of July.

    Going to need a ruthless winter to lose the excess I've put on since Aug 2017, too many chocolate raisins and not enough exercise these last six months!
    ================
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 709
    Much like yourself, My current FTP is 266w.
    Last year it was 268w and then it dropped to 241w early this year due to my wife having our son.

    I can hold 300w for 10 mins and have done 19 mins at 300w (albeit intervals) in one training session.

    I've got a training plan starting this weekend with the aim of reaching 300+w FTP by the end of Feb (I'm 30 then).

    The way to get there is to get on a structured plan and stick to it.
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,103
    dannbodge said:

    Much like yourself, My current FTP is 266w.
    Last year it was 268w and then it dropped to 241w early this year due to my wife having our son.

    I can hold 300w for 10 mins and have done 19 mins at 300w (albeit intervals) in one training session.

    I've got a training plan starting this weekend with the aim of reaching 300+w FTP by the end of Feb (I'm 30 then).

    The way to get there is to get on a structured plan and stick to it.

    I think your FTP is over 266w if you can do 19 mins at 300w, unless you completely collapsed at the end of that session!

    I will shortly be doing an FTP test, have been off the bike since 1 September and am anticipating an almighty shock. I should be able to make some fairly huge and rapid gains though, although doubtful I'll ever get anywhere near my previous best which was somewhere between 350 and 360. Depressingly, I was lighter then as well :/:(

  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 709
    bigmat said:

    dannbodge said:

    Much like yourself, My current FTP is 266w.
    Last year it was 268w and then it dropped to 241w early this year due to my wife having our son.

    I can hold 300w for 10 mins and have done 19 mins at 300w (albeit intervals) in one training session.

    I've got a training plan starting this weekend with the aim of reaching 300+w FTP by the end of Feb (I'm 30 then).

    The way to get there is to get on a structured plan and stick to it.

    I think your FTP is over 266w if you can do 19 mins at 300w, unless you completely collapsed at the end of that session!

    I will shortly be doing an FTP test, have been off the bike since 1 September and am anticipating an almighty shock. I should be able to make some fairly huge and rapid gains though, although doubtful I'll ever get anywhere near my previous best which was somewhere between 350 and 360. Depressingly, I was lighter then as well :/:(

    Difference is holding 300w in 2, 3 and 4 min intervals with a 2min rest between them is different to hold it for 20mins straight
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712
    My record is 263, currently at 223 due to getting married and then travelling a lot (I think I've been away for nearly 3 months total since the wedding last weekend in March). This really hurts your training. I think I probably was higher than 263 at one point in the past before I had any power measurement.

    For me the only real way I get results is as dannbodge says above, choose a structured training plan and stick to it. This is where the travel ruins it, because you lose that consistency which is so important.

    I find it goes up to ~240-250 quite quickly (I have been on this plan, trainerroad sweetspot base, for 2 weeks and I already think the 223 test needs re-doing), those are the easy watts, then the next 20 is much harder. I think that if I had a proper season of training I should make 280 watts, but the problem for me is the consistency as something always comes up.

    My best "shortcut" to increased power is to just do loads of VO2 work, unfortunately it isn't really a shortcut because VO2 workouts are hard going if you try and do them a lot. I can't really keep that up for too long.
  • cruffcruff Posts: 1,355
    My last four tests, spread over a year:

    314
    316
    313
    313 (two days ago)

    Not sure I should be p***ed off with stagnation, or pleased to have staved off decrepitude for another year :D
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,103
    dannbodge said:

    bigmat said:

    dannbodge said:

    Much like yourself, My current FTP is 266w.
    Last year it was 268w and then it dropped to 241w early this year due to my wife having our son.

    I can hold 300w for 10 mins and have done 19 mins at 300w (albeit intervals) in one training session.

    I've got a training plan starting this weekend with the aim of reaching 300+w FTP by the end of Feb (I'm 30 then).

    The way to get there is to get on a structured plan and stick to it.

    I think your FTP is over 266w if you can do 19 mins at 300w, unless you completely collapsed at the end of that session!

    I will shortly be doing an FTP test, have been off the bike since 1 September and am anticipating an almighty shock. I should be able to make some fairly huge and rapid gains though, although doubtful I'll ever get anywhere near my previous best which was somewhere between 350 and 360. Depressingly, I was lighter then as well :/:(

    Difference is holding 300w in 2, 3 and 4 min intervals with a 2min rest between them is different to hold it for 20mins straight
    Maybe I misunderstood, thought you meant you had averaged 300w over 19 minutes of intervals, whereas I'm now guessing you meant you did a total of 19 minutes at 300w as intervals over the course of a longer training session?
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 709
    bigmat said:

    dannbodge said:

    bigmat said:

    dannbodge said:

    Much like yourself, My current FTP is 266w.
    Last year it was 268w and then it dropped to 241w early this year due to my wife having our son.

    I can hold 300w for 10 mins and have done 19 mins at 300w (albeit intervals) in one training session.

    I've got a training plan starting this weekend with the aim of reaching 300+w FTP by the end of Feb (I'm 30 then).

    The way to get there is to get on a structured plan and stick to it.

    I think your FTP is over 266w if you can do 19 mins at 300w, unless you completely collapsed at the end of that session!

    I will shortly be doing an FTP test, have been off the bike since 1 September and am anticipating an almighty shock. I should be able to make some fairly huge and rapid gains though, although doubtful I'll ever get anywhere near my previous best which was somewhere between 350 and 360. Depressingly, I was lighter then as well :/:(

    Difference is holding 300w in 2, 3 and 4 min intervals with a 2min rest between them is different to hold it for 20mins straight
    Maybe I misunderstood, thought you meant you had averaged 300w over 19 minutes of intervals, whereas I'm now guessing you meant you did a total of 19 minutes at 300w as intervals over the course of a longer training session?
    Yeah it was a total of 20 mins at 300w (was actually 20mins)
    1 x 1min @ 300
    2 x 2min @ 300
    2 x 3min @ 300
    1 x 4 min @ 300 and 1 x 5min @ 300
  • cruffcruff Posts: 1,355
    Problem with estimating your ftp in this way is that it isn't really scientific enough to give you anything like an accurate figure. Of course the only way to be REALLY sure is to do an hour at max and see what it shakes out at (though only idiots like me do that...) the 95% of a consistent 20 minute max effort is generally good enough for most people - but unless you're following the proper protocol (20 min warm up, 3x 1 minute fast cadence spins to activate, 5 mins rest, 5 mins full on effort to fatigue you, 5 mins rest THEN the 20 minute test) even that isn't 'accurate'. Factor in things like rested state on the day, individual physiological differences, environmental factors etc and 'estimating' FTP isn't possible

    I've done a full one hour test precisely once. Because I was convincing myself that the number I saw on the 20 minute test was wrong. Oddly, when I did it, I was 2 watts better than the previous 20 minute test would have suggested - so it put my mind at rest sufficiently for me never to have to go through it again :D
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • rollemynotrollemynot Posts: 434
    edited 7 November
    Sorry if I’m wrong, but FTP increase or maintaining should be coupled with weight loss to show your real improvement. I am 4kg’s heavier than my usual event weight but my FTP Test recently showed a 4 watt improvement - but a lower w/kg capability. I did a hilly 35 mile loop yesterday and I felt every one of those extra kg’s. My current FTP 245 2.85 W/kg, but at fighting weight 2.93 W/kg small differences but it all adds up.
  • cruffcruff Posts: 1,355
    W/kg might be important for racing or hilly TTs, but it doesn't mean a thing for crits or flat TTs, where watts are king. Of course, in general riding, yes, you'll go faster if you lose weight as well as gain power - but even just maintaining weight will gaining power will make you faster uphill
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,393
    I'd like to be a stone lighter with the same FTP, sadly back in 2016 i didnt have a power meter so I've no idea where i was compared to today, i do know that riding up HC cols in the Alps felt pretty easy and today i struggle with local climbs.

    More power, less weight will be my moto for 2020
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 709
    edited 8 November
    bigmat said:

    dannbodge said:

    bigmat said:

    dannbodge said:

    Much like yourself, My current FTP is 266w.
    Last year it was 268w and then it dropped to 241w early this year due to my wife having our son.

    I can hold 300w for 10 mins and have done 19 mins at 300w (albeit intervals) in one training session.

    I've got a training plan starting this weekend with the aim of reaching 300+w FTP by the end of Feb (I'm 30 then).

    The way to get there is to get on a structured plan and stick to it.

    I think your FTP is over 266w if you can do 19 mins at 300w, unless you completely collapsed at the end of that session!

    I will shortly be doing an FTP test, have been off the bike since 1 September and am anticipating an almighty shock. I should be able to make some fairly huge and rapid gains though, although doubtful I'll ever get anywhere near my previous best which was somewhere between 350 and 360. Depressingly, I was lighter then as well :/:(

    Difference is holding 300w in 2, 3 and 4 min intervals with a 2min rest between them is different to hold it for 20mins straight
    Maybe I misunderstood, thought you meant you had averaged 300w over 19 minutes of intervals, whereas I'm now guessing you meant you did a total of 19 minutes at 300w as intervals over the course of a longer training session?
    Yeah it was a total of 20 (I counted wrong) mins over the space of 1hr training session:
    1 x 1min
    2 x 2min
    2 x 3min
    1 x 4min
    1 x 5min

    So it wasn't a continuous, but I can hold 300w for 10mins straight.

    My w/Kg is pretty good. I only weigh 70kg so currently sitting at 3.8w/kg but I can't seem to lose anything else. Maybe it's all the snacking I do at work.
    My lowest weight has been 68kg last year, but that was after 3 days of being ill.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712

    Sorry if I’m wrong, but FTP increase or maintaining should be coupled with weight loss to show your real improvement. I am 4kg’s heavier than my usual event weight but my FTP Test recently showed a 4 watt improvement - but a lower w/kg capability. I did a hilly 35 mile loop yesterday and I felt every one of those extra kg’s. My current FTP 245 2.85 W/kg, but at fighting weight 2.93 W/kg small differences but it all adds up.

    As Cruff says it depends what you're doing, but since our club rides are usually in the Peaks it does help a lot to be lighter.

    For me, weight loss and increased power tend to come together because I only really lose weight when I am training properly. Otherwise I tend to slowly gain weight...

    If I can get back under 70kg and get my power back up to 265ish, which I know is very doable, then I reckon I should be able to get close to 4 W/kg ([email protected] would be 3.79). I reckon I've got 280 watts in me, I just need a good long training run to get there!
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,393
    FTP as of the 12th is now 270, yesterday i managed 5 min interval at 300W and 1 min at 350W, 30s at 400W, the 5 min wasnt as difficult as I expected, i should have done a couple more.
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712
    Managed a few weeks of very consistent midweek turbo work, and retested at 243 watts on Wednesday (up from 223). This is obviously a big increase but it's in line with what I normally see - a rapid increase from the relatively untrained ~220 watts to a more typical ~240 watts, then a much slower increase from then.

    I've really struggled to get proper weekend rides in due to social commitments apparently I'm not allowed to b*gger off for 2-4 hours while we have guests... But generally speaking it is going well and I've lost a kilo. So w/kg up fairly significantly to 3.2. I should get to around 3.5 fairly easily if I keep the weight coming off and get a few extra watts.
  • dannbodgedannbodge Posts: 709
    edited 24 November
    That's good going.
    I'm 2 weeks into my training plan and kind of enjoying it. It's a bit tough to stick to with a baby so I'm following the workouts in order but not necessarily on the day they've got to be completed.

    I've not ridden outside for about a month now. Don't have the time and with my plan using the weekends I can't do a turbo ride and outdoors.

    Hoping to get a few long ones in over Xmas though.

    So far I've no idea of my power has gone anywhere but I've dropped another 1kg or so.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 8,296
    edited 24 November
    Great thread ITB, this gives me hope.

    I've 'trained' fairly regularly for about 3 years now.

    I topped out at 252 last year, and 256 this year - that's on the low volume TR plans.
    I either do all 3 rides plus a 40 mile group ride, or it's 2 TR workouts plus the outdoor ride.

    When I am properly light, I am pretty much bang on 4w\kg, but as always seems to happen at this time of year, I have piled on pretty much a stone (6kg or so) in a far too short period of time.
    Coupled up with a holiday, a new job that's taking a lot of concentration and learning, and I've lost seemingly a lot of fitness - seem to be down to around an FTP of 220 currently, and just about scraping in at 3w\kg.

    When I am at my proper weight, and have some power, I LOVE climbs, but right now I can feel everyone of those extra kg when trying to ascend :/

    A few things that I am hoping will kick start my enthusiasm again:

    - New local cycle club starting up - hoping to get involved, and looks like they want to encourage kids too, so hopefully my 6 year old will be interested
    - Hoping to get into some chaingang style speed rides
    - Dusting off the MTB to get back to some off road riding in the winter to mix things up a bit
    - Planning to either go to Mauritius or Italy in the spring to tackle some climbs
    - Isle of wight randonee ride planned with work for the summer
    - Noticed the registrations for the 'chase the sun' rides have come up again - logistics would likely be tricky though
    - Hoping to take part in Ride London again next year - loved it this year, and nearly nicked in under the 5 hour mark for the total completion time, so big target for next time.
    - Would like to properly tackle a few hill climbs next year - was already too heavy this year by the time it came around, but enjoyed it immensely when I did so in 2017.
    - From the spring I have an actual commute to do - should average out at 100 miles a week (120 one week, 80 the next)

    Any suggestions as to continuing the motivation, extra plans to up the power and general speed would be most appreciated o:)
    Currently on the maintenance plan which is pretty hard going, but wondering if I should switch over to base

    Great to see some real world figures on here too, for whatever reason, I always assumed the vast majority of you chaps were 300+, so encouraging to see I am not as far off as I thought.

    300 has been my aim for a while, but I'm not sure if I can realistically get there, with increasing age factored in too.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,393
    Dan i'm more than 10lbs heavier than i'd like to be but i have been training regularly on the turbo and have just pushed to 270W, mind you i've barely ridden real roads or hills this year and as a result my "outside" rides have been very average even by my standards.

    Not helped by my super heavy weight winter bike, which i'm also addressing.

    Anyway the plan now is five turbo sessions and at least one long distance road ride and a hill repeat session, one rest day.

    I see no point in increasing my virtual FTP if my 5+ hour rode rides feel like pulling out my finger nails with pliers.
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 8,296
    Sounds like we are in similar boats.

    I would agree with you on the pointlessness of increasing your FTP if you see marginal gains in the real world.

    Perhaps I have been lucky, but my increased FTP has always (to me) seemed to yield pretty good (for me) performances out on the road and up the hills.

    The exception being a 50 miler I rode last weekend, which was dog slow, and I was getting thigh cramps to boot.
    I put that down to lack of activity, bad eating, and general poor state of tune.

    I suspect on 6 outings a week you will hit the 300 mark, but I suspect I'm not going to be able to get anywhere near that frequency - once upon a time I rode 5 days a week, and it was a struggle but could be shoe horned in.

    I wonder with the forthcoming (6 months away probably) necessary commute whether that will impact my power in a positive manner or not - time will tell, but I can't see how it can be anywhere near the impact that a specific ERG workout has on the legs etc.
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • nitrousoxidenitrousoxide Posts: 3,821
    I would definitely agree that regular, relatively short (sub 90min) turbo sessions, will simply make your body adapt to cope with sub ~90min rides outdoors. But I think there's a balance to be had in terms of how many rides, indoors and out, can be of a high "Intensity" of 0.9+, when riding six days a week.

    From my own experiences, I can do ~30min+ turbo sessions daily for just over a week with a high Intensity, but sooner rather than later my legs will die through overtraining.

    At the mo, I'm typically alternating between easy and hard turbo rides on a daily basis, taking my commutes very easy.
    ================
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • mbrig11mbrig11 Posts: 19

    I would definitely agree that regular, relatively short (sub 90min) turbo sessions, will simply make your body adapt to cope with sub ~90min rides outdoors. But I think there's a balance to be had in terms of how many rides, indoors and out, can be of a high "Intensity" of 0.9+, when riding six days a week.

    From my own experiences, I can do ~30min+ turbo sessions daily for just over a week with a high Intensity, but sooner rather than later my legs will die through overtraining.

    At the mo, I'm typically alternating between easy and hard turbo rides on a daily basis, taking my commutes very easy.

    I don't agree. If you ride hard for 90 mins indoors (or outdoors) then you can ride half as hard for 180 mins. As long as your bottom and back etc can take it
  • cruffcruff Posts: 1,355
    edited 25 November
    My base winter plan is two intense turbo sessions (intervals/tabatas/cadence/Vo2 max work etc) and one based on ftp per week, with two base rides of 3-4 hours.

    That sees me through to January, where I replace one of the base rides with a longer session of threshold work (over-unders or 2x20 or similar) but lengthen the other base ride, and introduce more specificity in the intervals, depending on what I'm training for (last year was mainly TTs, next year mainly crits & road races)

    FTP has been between 313 and 316 for three years - realistically I've hit a ceiling due to age (46) and only having about 10-12 hours a week to train
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712

    I would definitely agree that regular, relatively short (sub 90min) turbo sessions, will simply make your body adapt to cope with sub ~90min rides outdoors. But I think there's a balance to be had in terms of how many rides, indoors and out, can be of a high "Intensity" of 0.9+, when riding six days a week.

    From my own experiences, I can do ~30min+ turbo sessions daily for just over a week with a high Intensity, but sooner rather than later my legs will die through overtraining.

    At the mo, I'm typically alternating between easy and hard turbo rides on a daily basis, taking my commutes very easy.

    Improvements in your output for 60-90 minutes (or even less) will result in some improvements in your output over longer durations. Obviously it is better if you can do some long rides too, but statements like this could be read to imply that short turbo rides are useless if you are wanting to train for longer rides (bearing in mind this won't just be read by people with experience).

    All else being equal I think you would get better results from doing 5 x 1hr rides in the week than doing 1 x 5hr ride on a Sunday, for example. Consistency is king.

    You're certainly right that doing 6x 60-90min rides with a 0.9 IF per week won't be sustainable!
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712
    daniel_b said:


    Any suggestions as to continuing the motivation, extra plans to up the power and general speed would be most appreciated o:)
    Currently on the maintenance plan which is pretty hard going, but wondering if I should switch over to base

    What type of plan are you using at the moment?

    Now is a good time to be doing base anyway...
  • daniel_bdaniel_b Posts: 8,296
    edited 25 November
    Hi Bob, I'm on the maintenance plan - think it may be a recentish one, it's in the speciality (oooh errr missus) \ enthusiast section.

    There is maintenance, and time crunch 30 and 45 in there.

    It tends to be mostly quite interval based, with sprints etc.

    I've just swapped to low volume base I - that will just see me up to the new year, then I reckon base II to see me into mid feb, then time for one build before commuting starts.

    Also planning to try and get 3 turbo sessions in PLUS the weekend ride.


    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • nitrousoxidenitrousoxide Posts: 3,821
    edited 25 November

    I would definitely agree that regular, relatively short (sub 90min) turbo sessions, will simply make your body adapt to cope with sub ~90min rides outdoors. But I think there's a balance to be had in terms of how many rides, indoors and out, can be of a high "Intensity" of 0.9+, when riding six days a week.

    From my own experiences, I can do ~30min+ turbo sessions daily for just over a week with a high Intensity, but sooner rather than later my legs will die through overtraining.

    At the mo, I'm typically alternating between easy and hard turbo rides on a daily basis, taking my commutes very easy.

    Improvements in your output for 60-90 minutes (or even less) will result in some improvements in your output over longer durations. Obviously it is better if you can do some long rides too, but statements like this could be read to imply that short turbo rides are useless if you are wanting to train for longer rides (bearing in mind this won't just be read by people with experience).

    All else being equal I think you would get better results from doing 5 x 1hr rides in the week than doing 1 x 5hr ride on a Sunday, for example. Consistency is king.

    You're certainly right that doing 6x 60-90min rides with a 0.9 IF per week won't be sustainable!
    What I was getting at is that at least for me, a 90min turbo session is huge, I've usually either cruxified my legs by this point through intervals or a sustained effort, and/or I feel like I'm sitting on a saddle made of razorblades!

    Most of my turbo rides are typically 30-60mins and on shorter ones, I'll be doing a fair bit of time around my FTP (~274W) and/or possibly doing 1/2/5min reps of trying to hold ~450/400/350W with my heartrate close top or beyond my LTHR of ~168bpm.

    But even on gentle longer sessions, I don't think I'm doing enough to encourage my fat burning pathway.

    So come the spring, if I only do turbo rides, my body is in no fit shape to do 2-5 hour rides where I'd like to be doing 4+ cat3/4 hills at anything like the 300-350W I know I can do later in the outdoor season.
    ================
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,393
    As much as i enjoy in a sick kind of way our club rides aka the pain train, even in winter the pace is pretty hard, my first ride back in months two Sat ago I didnt take a single turn on the front and still exploded at the 100km mark, for the first time in many years i had to find a shop for a can of coke & snickers bar, neither of which i like.

    Anyway my point being doing structured turbo work and then joining a group ride above your current ability is perhaps not the best way to transfer gains to the outside world.

    Time for a block of solo 3-4 hour rides, which makes sense to me because when I was training for mountains I did regular solo hill sessions.
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,712

    I would definitely agree that regular, relatively short (sub 90min) turbo sessions, will simply make your body adapt to cope with sub ~90min rides outdoors. But I think there's a balance to be had in terms of how many rides, indoors and out, can be of a high "Intensity" of 0.9+, when riding six days a week.

    From my own experiences, I can do ~30min+ turbo sessions daily for just over a week with a high Intensity, but sooner rather than later my legs will die through overtraining.

    At the mo, I'm typically alternating between easy and hard turbo rides on a daily basis, taking my commutes very easy.

    Improvements in your output for 60-90 minutes (or even less) will result in some improvements in your output over longer durations. Obviously it is better if you can do some long rides too, but statements like this could be read to imply that short turbo rides are useless if you are wanting to train for longer rides (bearing in mind this won't just be read by people with experience).

    All else being equal I think you would get better results from doing 5 x 1hr rides in the week than doing 1 x 5hr ride on a Sunday, for example. Consistency is king.

    You're certainly right that doing 6x 60-90min rides with a 0.9 IF per week won't be sustainable!
    What I was getting at is that at least for me, a 90min turbo session is huge, I've usually either cruxified my legs by this point through intervals or a sustained effort, and/or I feel like I'm sitting on a saddle made of razorblades!

    Most of my turbo rides are typically 30-60mins and on shorter ones, I'll be doing a fair bit of time around my FTP (~274W) and/or possibly doing 1/2/5min reps of trying to hold ~450/400/350W with my heartrate close top or beyond my LTHR of ~168bpm.

    But even on gentle longer sessions, I don't think I'm doing enough to encourage my fat burning pathway.

    So come the spring, if I only do turbo rides, my body is in no fit shape to do 2-5 hour rides where I'd like to be doing 4+ cat3/4 hills at anything like the 300-350W I know I can do later in the outdoor season.
    Yeah, sure, makes sense, except HIIT is fairly well proven to result in fat loss (according to Chad on the trainerroad podcast anyway!).

    I've never really struggled with longer rides; even if I've been off the bike for a while I know I'll be able to go out for 4 or 5 hours and get round. It's the top end which I lose quickly, which makes club rides less fun.

    The logic I use is that at my level (i.e. not very good) the best way to get better is volume and consistency. With structure to make best use of the limited time. I know that will result in weight loss too.
Sign In or Register to comment.